Mature Mafia: Game Over

[armlx]

IRC everyone who is currently alive, with the exception of logic and werebear, has voted for Nonny at least once,

Does this not work in her favor?

mis-lynched if she were scum,

You mean town?

Your point about her being too scummy to not be wagoned if town is what I was thinking you meant though.

[Adel]

a: scum do vote for occasionaly as a form of distancing. you know this.

b: my typo: if she were scum it wouldn't be a mis-lynch. I'm tired and my typing is crappy right now. she is too scummy to not have been wagoned if she were town, ergo, she is highly likely to be scum.

[armlx]

a: scum do vote for occasionaly as a form of distancing. you know this.

I do, in fact, realize this. I'm interested in the context of each of those votes.

[nonny]

It is interesting that I have had that many poeple vote me. Show me where this scummy behavior is though. I, for obvious, reasons don't see myself as scummy. At this point I don't mind getting it over with, but I don't want town to lose from it either. I find the fact that you are going after me and not DGB(the person you said was scummiest) more telling though.

[armlx]

Macros's edit of the death post and more or less lying about doing it.

[nonny]

Macros's edit of the death post and more or less lying about doing it.

Anything else? Anything more like recent? or that was me perchance so I know what was going through the head of the person doing it? I've answered to that one suffieciantly I think and have nothing more to add to it.

[armlx]

Anything more like recent?

The vote flop yesterday.

[logicticus]

Why would that be a factor if we're "in Lylo as suspected"? I believe that you don't want to label people as town, because it limits who you'll be able to vote for without attracting suspicion today.

I have a response to this after Logic does.

did we ever get this?

[armlx]

Ah yes, the fact we are in LyLo actually makes not revealing who we all think is town even more important, as if the mafia kills a suspect its infinitely better for us. See the end game of Strawberry Mafia for a sorta applicable scenario (4-2, one townie says "Hey, I think X is town", mafia kills them etc etc).

[Werebear]

For the sake of argument, armlx, please refresh my memory as to why Phoebus/myself is scummy.

[armlx]

[

Ok, my first thoughts are the Mathcam wagon was complete bullshit. I expect 2 of (DGB, Nonny, Werebear, Tali) are scum for their involvement in it. Nonny is the least likely as Mac was the least participative in it.

DGB is pretty logical on page 9. Phoebus is not, probably 1 of the 2 scum.

Phoebus's fatalism is odd on page 19.

I can sorta buy Macros giving up and just voting, Phoebus seems opportunistic.

The only major town thing I can see from him is the desire to cheat.

[Talitha]

Ah yes, the fact we are in LyLo actually makes not revealing who we all think is town even more important, as if the mafia kills a suspect its infinitely better for us. See the end game of Strawberry Mafia for a sorta applicable scenario (4-2, one townie says "Hey, I think X is town", mafia kills them etc etc).

I get this, and it's true if we manage to lynch a scum today, but it doesn't help at all if we lynch wrong today. I am having trouble convincing anyone that logic is scum and would like as much information from him as possible so that everyone can make a completely informed judgement on his alignment. First things first, ya know? Anyway, the mafia will already have a decent idea of who is likely or less-likely to get lynched tomorrow. Sure, saying who we think is town might help them tonight, but I believe it would help us (town)

more

... today, and tomorrow, if we get a tomorrow.

Taking kids to soccer... back later

[Adel]

Tally: can you see logic being scum without Nonny also being scum? I pretty much can't.

[Talitha]

I can see logic being scum either way...

I have a lot of doubt over nonny - my gut doesn't think she's scum, even though there's about 17 different reasons I want to vote her.

[Talitha]

Probably something obvious I've missed, but what makes you think that nonny has to be scum if logic is, Adel?

[Adel]

Probably something obvious I've missed, but what makes you think that nonny has to be scum if logic is, Adel?

I'm afraid that there isn't anything obvious about it. I always have trouble explaining this sort of thing-- my kind of pattern recognition doesn't lend itself to words very easily.

I see a number of likely (plausible) prospective scum groupings, and while Nonny is in some that logic isn't, logic isn't in any without Nonny.

I'm not trying to us my groupings as a reason to lynch Nonny (even though it is one of my prime reasons for pushing for her lynch) because I understand that it isn't something that I can explain in a convincing way. I was kind of hoping that you saw what I see.

I don't know how much you depend upon your gut, but consider listening to those 17 different reasons.

[DrippingGoofball]

Where does Werebear fit in your gut groups, Adel?

[Adel]

Where does Werebear fit in your gut groups, Adel?

With you, mostly. That set of interaction reminds me of the full game bus the Fonz and shaft.ed pulled in SMMII, which I'm sure you remember.

[Axelrod]

ugg. It is looking very possible that I am about to become very busy over the next week or so. This doesn't mean I'm not checking in, but it means I am much less likely to have the time to sit and do lengthy reviews for an hour or more on end.

Just letting you know. After next week I ought to be okay again for a bit.

[Talitha]

I decided I am going to read over the whole game. No-one seems to be in a huge hurry here which is good (but do let me know if the length of the day is causing extreme boredom for anyone).

I didn't get very far, though. Got stuck on the first page and decided I'd like to look at the sequence of events closely (I have only included what I consider the relevant posts!):

1. zu Faul posts "I'm out of the game. I was a vanilla townie" (or something like that)
2. Cam says "Interesting post from zu. I have nothing in my role PM that says I have to self-reveal when deceased. Either this was told to him by emp once it was known he was going to die, or part of his role is that he can fake his own death. Or something."
3. elvis notes "Judging from the fact that zu self-revealed and coron is in charge of vote counts, it seems that various game-related chores (mod duties) have been parceled out to players. "
4. Macros says "What the hells with zu_faul, was he a suicide townie? a joker?"
5. logicticus points out that zu Faul's death post has changed to "I have been brutally murdered, I dont know who did it but I may do at some stage."
6. Macros says "holy crap, what in the hell is ging on, it said something like "I am vanilla townie I quit" Emptyger, what is going on? "

What I earlier found suspicious about this is that Macros did the editing but was playing dumb like he had no clue what was going on. This is suspicious enough. But upon reading it again, look what he changed zu Faul's post to: "I have been brutally murdered". How could Macros be so confident about that? Compare to townie-Cam's post which didn't seem to have a clue what was going on. It really looks to me like Macros must have known that zu Faul was murdered, because he helped with the murdering.

What say you nonny? How did Macros know that zu Faul was murdered so early on day 1 when the rest of us were still scratching our heads wondering what the heck is going on?

[Talitha]

I also want to look closely at the part where Macros 'fesses up to changing the post, but that will have to be tomorrow.

[nonny]

Uhm.....that is a leap. This is most likely a vanilla game, for someone to die they would have to be murdered. How is there any question about that? Also, that was most likely his attempt to add flavor that he talked about when he fessed up, and which makes sense when he said no one was liking it and what not.

[armlx]

This is most likely a vanilla game, for someone to die they would have to be murdered. How is there any question about that?

It was night 1, no one knew that.

[Talitha]

At the start of the game, it took me about a page to figure out what was going on. Admittedly some people are quicker than I am, but I still can't see how a clueless townie could be so sure that when zu_Faul posted "I am out of the game/eliminated from the game" it meant that scum had murdered him.

[armlx]

Tali, to be fair I would assume the first kill of the game like that was a scum kill.