Mini 658 - Facedown and Thirsty Mafia (Game Over)

[Mokina]

Vote: Bird1111

Oh my gawd... you suck!

[Mokina]

Unvote

Peace and love. At least for now.

[Mokina]

Oh, heavens! Better listen to ChannelDelibird!

Vote: ChannelDelibird

[Mokina]

And now for your question: Why did you feel the need to follow CDB's instructions without question, even though you seem to disagree with them (as proved by voting him as your response)?

@Kairyuu: I agree with CDB completely... just thought it would be an amusing reply. Like he said, the town isn't going to have any useful evidence over the first few pages, so semi-founded pressure is really the only way to draw out the scum. As a side note,

truly

random votes get us nowhere, since they don't reveal anything about the player in question.

On a completely irrelevant note, I would like to point out that Kairyuu's unvote has created far more material for discussion than all the votes on the first page put together. Someone has to do

something

out of the ordinary to push the game into the "serious" phase.

[Mokina]

If we're not out of the random voting stage yet, then it's almost over.

Like CDB mentioned earlier, there is very little information to be had at the beginning of D1. Random votes slowly progress to intuition, and from there to clear-cut evidence. Discussion is generated, and that's what draws the scum out. Hopping the largest wagon in town with such a weak argument is scumtacular.

Unvote, Vote: StrangerCoug

Which reminds me...

I also don't like the quick hop onto the Mokina wagon with no real reason for voting except that it is already the biggest wagon, when you just finished talking about not liking to vote without good reason since you might be asked about your reasons.

QFT and

FoS: Kairyuu

. That's some serious opportunism.

[Mokina]

Alright. I can't argue with the fact that votes are pressure. You want pressure? Very well, increasing the biggest bandwagon counts as pressure in my book, so here's a pressure vote (since you asked so nicely).

Vote: Mokina

.

Your idea of pressuring her is putting her at L-3!?

Unvote: Mokina

and

vote: Kairyuu

for blatant opportunism.

Interesting. Doubts begin to arise as to whether I deserve the giant wagon I have been given. As soon as it becomes clear that I am no longer the prime lynch target for the town, StrangerCoug switches to Kairyuu without adding to the case against him. If that's not scum behavior, it sure as hell isn't protown.

Confirm Vote

.

Drake worries me a little, but StrangerCoug freaks me out.

Can you please explain why its opportunism? I said quite clearly that I only voted as a pressure vote and only because you were the one the vote would put the most pressure on. It was not based on any reasoning that you were scum (your answer to my question alleviated my suspicions of you earlier).

IGMEOY, is all.

There's no question that Kairyuu's vote was taking advantage of an opportunity. He chose to join the biggest wagon in town with little explanation, and that's bound to raise some eyebrows no matter who you are. He's worth watching, if only for his willingness to be led.

Kairyuu has been listening to the more experienced players and following their instructions to the letter. If someone like CDB tells him to place pressure, we can't really expect anything else. I think it's important to distinguish scumtell from newbtell in situations like this one.

@Nightwolf: Any thoughts on the current debate? You've been awfully quiet.

[Mokina]

It's all based down to this, look how he says it, the problem is it looks like he doesn't care if he gets caught, which brings me down to him being townie as i mafia would risk saying this, unless he wanted us to believe this and not vote for him.

Careful there; that's dangerously close to being WIFOM.

[Mokina]

my vote stands for now

Could you remind me of the reasoning behind your vote? Just checking...

Open 72 had a player called "scumbag", and he got my random vote. Strangely enough, he ended up being town.

This argument between StrangerCoug and CDB is ludicrous. I believe both have chosen the same side; that randomness can't last forever on the first day and that many votes will be influenced by semi-random nudges such as the name mentioned above. Both of you have this sort of tunnel-vision that the other is wrong. Seriously, wake up.

Can we back up a little bit and start scumhunting again?

[Mokina]

Minor LA is to be expected until my laptop arrives (est. 3-6 days). Do not be alarmed.

[Mokina]

Unvote, Vote: drake_259

I REALLY don't like how he just sneaks on to the Kairyuu bandwagon without adding anything.

It just seems like he's doing what he said drake was doing (except on another bandwagon)... Hypocrisy much?

Hypocrisy a little, not much. Bird1111 has created an argument against Drake, albeit an underdeveloped one. Drake has joined Kairyuu wagon without explaining himself, and that sort of behavior will always have scum connotations. I think Iron Man already has this one covered.

Okay, it's Monday, which means it's also Mokinaday. I'm unofficially resuming discussion.

StrangerCoug, what do you think the town should be doing right now? You seem to be with CDB on the issue of necessary pressure, so who would you say deserves the most real scrutiny?

Drake, it's interesting to see how people gave you a hard time for the Kairyuu vote, causing you to cave when the bandwagon built up. Not to be a scary psychoanalyst, but that suggests you're doing what other people want you to. Take advice with a grain of salt, mmkay?

Nhat, thoughts in general?

[Mokina]

Aside from him worrying her a little (then quickly shifting the spotlight to Strangercoug) Mokina is straight up coaching him. I have you down as suspicious by association.

We have a disproportionately high number of newbies in this game. With a few notable exceptions, they tend to follow the example of more experienced players. Meta-wise, that's a good thing, a way of learning. But within the bounds of the game, followers are the quintessential uninformed majority. I'm just worried that later on, people like Kairyuu and Drake are going to be all too easily led if they can't think for themselves.

As far as my own suspicions go, the difference is in the contribution. I feel like Kairyuu is willing to analyze a situation, whereas Drake has been avoiding questions from other players and has yet to provide a reason for his voting record. StrangerCoug's been seeming more eager to explain himself of late, so I'm inclined to

Unvote

and

FoS: Drake

.

So, in other words, you find people who are polite, helpful to newbies, and don't tear other people's arguments apart violently scummy? From what I see, you are attacking Drake for being a newbie, Mokina for being nice to a newbie, and me for being a newbie who is trying to be nice to a fellow newbie. By the same reasoning, CDB is scummy for being polite and giving me the benefit of the doubt for my pressure vote. Personally, I think CDB is probably town, but you should probably attack him if you want to keep true to your logic.

Ohhhh boy.

The above quote is full of ridiculous strawman, probably because you fail to realize that Nhat has a point. To trust someone just because they're a newbie would be a mistake indeed. Furthermore, it's completely within reason to watch for buddies at this point in the game. The post was completely logical, so why the angry response?

Looks like someone feels threatened.

[Mokina]

Kay, can we move on now?

Drake, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt for the fact that you are new to the site, but if you dont post at least an attempt at a case soon, I'm going to have to start withdrawing that benefit.

So far, you have posted minimalist posts without much content of your own. I've seen multiple posts stating "so and so is scummy, that's why I'm voting".

Please show me that my benefit wasnt wasted.

Quoted for much truth.

[Mokina]

yeah maybe but in fact it also helped him out as i would of still been WIFOM him

This is completely incomprehensible to me. Clarify with correct grammar (e.g. "would have" or "would've" instead of "would of") please.

these 3 are all the same meaning too me but yh would have and would've could be replaced with would of and wont change the concept of what i had said


and people sorry about my grammer, you will proberly have to put up with it while im in the game, (never had good grammer skills) (suck at English lol)

Again, no explanation... which seems even more antitown. I'm not liking this at all.

Mod, can we get a votecount?

[Mokina]

Natirasha's behavior does not necessarily correlate to his alignment.

Yeah. I'm a little nervous to vote for this one, even if his behavior begins to feel antitown.

I think DoS had the right idea in his post yesterday, though. Drake was a literacy-challenged newbie, and most of the justification for votes against him was based on that rather than the initial voting patterns.

The reason I was thinking of IronMan being scummy was that on #43 you practically said OMGUS to two different people. Why didn't you just vote one of the people you Fos'ed?

FoS: Iron Man

Unvote

I think SC gave a good explanation why he doesn't like L-4 and L-3. I think drake had some scummy logic with his vote, so I'll

Vote:Drake

Mod: Please unvote first.

I have been thinking about this, and it makes me uncomfortable for a number of reasons.

Malthusis drops in, places a vote on an already-popular drake, and slips back into the shadows. His explanation is "scummy logic," but by the time people realize that drake might just be in over his head, nobody notices that malthusis still on the wagon. In fact, we haven't heard from him since. No analysis, no debate, just that one post taking advantage of an opportunity.

Vote: malthusis

T'would be nice to hear from you again.

[Mokina]

EBWOP:

"malthusis

is

still on the wagon"

[Mokina]

Ok. That's

extremely

antitown.

Gawd, what else were you expecting? ^.^

[Mokina]

OK, so I'm going back to Iron Man. He helpfully disappeared for a few days while drake was picking up his last votes, and then there was the WIFOM gambit he opened the game with that

still

makes me uncomfortable.

Neh. I'm going after malthusis for the same reasons. He's said nothing since page three and all of his posts have been votes. Unless there's some sort of V/LA going on that I'm not aware of, he's trying to fly below the radar. And it worked; nobody even considered him D1.

Iron Man's selfvote on the first page might have been strange, but it's similar to Natirasha's hammer. While both may not have been good town choices, neither of them are particularly scummy either. Null tell on that one, in my humble opinion.

[Mokina]

Natirasha hammering was terminating discussion when we weren't ready. How is that a null tell?

Some players like to see death. I'm of that opinion.

See? Natirasha always acts antitown.

As such, it's almost impossible to determine his alignment through normal means. His D1 hammer might have been a bad move for the town, but considering meta, it's not particularly scummy of him.

[Mokina]

Question to Natirasha- You say you like to see death. Why do you feel your quick hammer was pro-town?

Who said I do? I just wanted to kill something. And I'm an attention whore.

LAME REASONING.

Vote: Natirasha

again.

Please.

He's not reasoning at all, not trying hard to look good like everyone else on Mafiascum. His actions are high-profile and antitown in every game he's been a part of, not just the ones in which he's scum.

@SC: I believe you should take a look at Natirasha's meta before you commit to a vote. Are you going after him because he will be a detriment to the town, or because you have a hunch that he's scum?

[Mokina]

As for your question, a little bit of both. I know this is stating the obvious, but acting in an anti-town manner helps scum. Helping scum is scummy.

To clarify/rephrase the question... do his actions lead you to believe that his

alignment

is antitown?

I just want to be cautious here, because Natirasha has a history of being lynched as a townie for doing something along the lines of a quick-hammer. Helping scum out is normal play for him. If you're voting him to prevent him from doing so, fair enough. That's a whole different story.

[Mokina]

At last, the game is moving again. I'm reluctant to hold a vote on malthusis if he's actually been V/LA all this time, so an

Unvote

is in order. I expect whatever replacement YB finds to be active and analytical.

I'd also be willing to

Vote: Natirasha

, but not out of any alignment hunch. I have no clue whether or not he's one of the scum... but he's sure as hell helping them and he'll probably continue to act antitown.

[Mokina]

Yes, but I'm not your mafia.

The plot thickens. Roleclaim, please.

[Mokina]

Yes, but I'm not your mafia.

The plot thickens. Roleclaim, please.

Unvote: Natirasha
Vote: Mokina

for rolefishing. I'm not exactly sure how many votes Natirasha is at, but I'm almost positive he's not at L-1.

CDB's probably right here; we have a combination of yellowbounder as mod and Natirasha as the person in question. We are

not

guaranteed an accurate roleclaim, so why bother?

My reasoning was that if he's a vigilante, the scum will go after him. If he's an SK, other scum will go after him. He's dead unless he receives some protection, and it would be nice to know whether or not he deserves it.

Is this a bad train of thought? Maybe I am completely wrong here.

[Mokina]

Okay, interesting. I propose the following:

The psychiatrist should roleclaim now. If such a character exists, they will be able to target Natirasha tonight and convert him to a normal townie, after which point he will be confirmed as innocent. If nobody claims, we assume there isn't a psychiatrist in the setup and lynch Natirasha today. Since he's a permanent SK in that situation, the town still comes out ahead.

Thoughts?

[Mokina]

Natirasha, is your flavour that you are a unicorn? If not, what is your flavour?

It's possible the psychiatrist role may be ambiguous as to its purpose, so a flavour match might help.

However, I'm pretty sure there's no way my role could be a psychiatrist.

I am the unicorn. A horde of them, to be correct.

What makes you think you have a linked psychiatrist?

[Mokina]

Unvote

If everyone claims not-psychiatrist, I intend to vote Natirasha.

[Mokina]

I cannot support this bid to try to find a psychiatrist. Scum can lay back and wait for everyone to affirm that they are not psychiatrist, and then claim and ride it out until the end of the game. It could be the case that Natirasha is lying his ass off. You guys do have a point in getting rid of him early to avoid mislynch, etc.

Think about it. Natirasha is definitely a serial killer. He's probably lying about the psychiatrist thing, but it doesn't hurt to ask the rest of the town before quicklynching him. If he's lying his ass off, we lynch him. If someone makes a psychiatrist claim,

then

we talk about whether or not it's fake.

Prod/Replace Request: Iron Man, malthusis

Happy birthday, RandomGem!

[Mokina]

Okay, on the subject of picking up activity. First of all, I am not the psychiatrist.

Natirasha claims he is a serial killer, but also hints that his terrible affliction is curable. I'm not terribly impressed with this story, and unless someone steps forward and claims psychiatrist, it seems like a sensible course of action for me to vote for him. Problem is, we have two inactives, either of which might want to make a claim.

To be on the safe side, we should probably let them make posts today. ;)

At this point I don't have enough evidence to decide between all of the different situations, so I will not claim that I know what happened. These are the theories I came up with off the top of my head and are by no means an exhaustive list, so any input by the rest of the town is much appreciated.

...

I would assume that unless the mafia are also unicorns, he would change it somehow to reflect the double target.

Ouch, second-guessing the mod. I wouldn't entirely discount RandomGem's double-target theory based on that. And what about the possibility that Natirasha is making shit up and the unicorns are actually a mafia faction? It's not entirely out of the question, you know.

[Mokina]

Another quick thought. If a member of the mafia claims psychiatrist and Nat continues killing don't we just lynch both of them over the next two days? I honestly don't see it as being advantageous for scum to claim psychiatrist tbh.

QFT; that's way too much heat for both factions involved. Incidentally, this is why it doesn't make sense for Natirasha to claim SK while playing as part of the mafia.

As a side note, I have no trouble believing that "horde of unicorns" is a killing role at this point... and it's almost certainly antitown.

[Mokina]

This is an important observation. I think that the Nat lynch is what should be done right now. Here's why:

Best case scenario - He flips scum.

Middle case scenario - He flips SK, putting suspicion on both of the absent players for not submitting a NK.

Worst case scenario - He's townie, and we get rid of an antitown player.

I like this reasoning. This is quality.

Still a little hazy on how the middle case scenario implicates the absent players, but all things considered, the situation in which Nat flips SK is a good outcome. The psychiatrist proposal seems weak, and my patience is running thin.

Fact is, Natirasha isn't going to help the town... and he's our best bet for scum right now. Either we're lynching a killer or we're lynching a liar.

Vote: Natirasha

[Mokina]

Checking in... nothing much to go on...

[Mokina]

A three man mafia plus a serial killer? Is that really the norm? If so it seems rather unbalanced towards the scum side.

Nah, the notion's that the SK will probably take down some mafia too. Even if he doesn't, the game may be balanced out by power roles alone. I'm inclined to believe that all protowns in this particular game are, considering the doctor and cop cardflips we've seen so far.

I think iamausername and Korts have the right idea.

Do you suppose my theoretical scumbuddies would fail to send in a kill just because Iron Man the theoretical scum was MIA? Especially since we know now that we had a doc, you think that's realistic, and not the supposition that the doc managed a save first time around?

Meh, could be protection from the doc or a lucky roleblocker. Far as I'm concerned, the N1 nokill isn't worth anything in a case.

The point about the replacement times is a bit of a different story. While the mafia probably wouldn't make a kill choice until all of their members were active, we can't completely rule it out. In any case, I don't think such circumstantial evidence alone implicates Iron Man.

Weak case, though it's worth thinking about.

[Mokina]

Has this game come close to stalling?

On a number of occasions. How do people feel about malthusis? Is he clear?

[Mokina]

I support a no lynch for this day. If there are 3 scum, then tomorrow we'll be at LyLo, but will have a higher probability to lynch scum. If there are 2 scum, we would still have 1 mislynch, which we would have whether or not we did no lynch or not. Also, in both cases (or if there is no night kill), town gains information from night actions.
Vote: No Lynch

:goodposting:

Vote: No Lynch

[Mokina]

@Kairyuu: But our best course for the day is to not lynch. If we start scumhunting today but default to a no lynch at the end, don't we broadcast to scum a) who is suspicious at shouldn't be night-killed or b) who is right and should be night-killed?

Can't agree with you here. In my experience, discussion and scumhunting are good for the town, even if they lead nowhere. Scum are much more likely to reveal themselves if there's a discussion, or at least raise enough suspicion to warrant an investigation. I guess it's kind of a double-edged sword, but if there's nothing to go on, I'd rather nolynch than risk mislynching someone like malthusis or Korts on a vague argument.

[Mokina]

So you aren't denying that you tied yourself to her through your actions? Uhh, right.

Please don't do this. It makes me sad inside.

Having mentioned that, some interesting arguments have been brought up in favor of a StrangerCoug lynch.

I've already noticed the pattern in SC's voting closely follows my own. Keep in mind that this behavior wouldn't necessarily feel scummy in all situations... but this circumstance feels blatant, clear-cut. The newbie argument will cut no ice with me. SC has logged more than 1500 game posts as of now, while I've made less than 400. I'm glad some other people have picked up on it.

FoS: StrangerCoug

I can't help but worry that he's choosing a safe route to avoid being lynched as a protown power role, or simply not thinking for himself. On the other hand, it can't hurt for the town to start looking at StrangerCoug's posts a little more carefully. I certainly will be.

[Mokina]

StrangerCoug asserts that he wasn't aware he was copying my actions. The statement "you tied yourself to her through your actions" suggests that he was fully aware of his pattern, and furthermore implies a scummy motivation.

You're basically attaching connotations to his post that weren't actually there.

[Mokina]

You're basically attaching connotations to his post that weren't actually there. Scummy you.

This is an example of strawman. Painful, isn't it?

[Mokina]

CDB, where are you? Do you have any thoughts on the current situation?

[Mokina]

No, you didn't use the newbie card to get out of tight spots. However, you did seem very eager to state, on multiple counts, and without provocation that you are also a newbie. Just because you weren't defending yourself with it doesn't mean it's not valid as a tell. You could be pre-emptively justifying an "I told you I'm a newbie" line.

Repetition of history much? Throughout D1, drake attempted to justify every action he made. He was the perfect example of someone using the newbie card to get out of tight spots. In the end, he got lynched by a scum-driven wagon and still flipped town.

While acting defensive can be a scumtell, it's

exactly

what players do when they first discover the site, no matter their alignment. At that point, what better thing to play than the newbie card? I don't see defensiveness as an element that particularly implicates Kairyuu, any more than it did drake.

But eh, just two cents.

[Mokina]

Assuming a three-man mafia, as is the usual in twelve player games, we're probably in lylo right now, but with the option of taking a no lynch first, which might be a good idea. Let's be careful, anyway.

I feel that we should err on the cautious side here. If this setup is anything like the one described above, we're down to the wire and a mislynch could end the game. That alone should be a compelling reason not to hang anyone today.

I'm torn between going on a No lynch or not, since I'm not entirely sure the NK would provide more information, and I think RG is a safe enough bet on scum in the first place. I'd like to see some more reactions before I decide on a vote in any case.

We basically have the choice between lynching today and lynching tomorrow. If we choose wrong either day, we lose. From a purely statistical perspective, we are more likely to choose wrong today than tomorrow. Also, it's important to keep in mind that the town is not very informed right now. I am almost certain there are some investigative roles among us. Give them the chance to work their magic.

Unvote: No Lynch

@SC: Do you believe your vote no longer makes sense? Are you trying to disassociate yourself from something spearheaded by RandomGem? An explanation would shed some light on your choice.

*Ahem* Anyway, sorry to state the obvious, but it hasn't provoked much.

Random's looking a little defensive here, and I have to agree with Zakeri on the whole "active lurking" impression. I still think he's too risky to lynch, but it might be worth looking into tomorrow.

[Mokina]

@SC: Do you believe your vote no longer makes sense?

Yes.

An explanation would shed some light on your choice.

[Mokina]

Also, I am mildly suspicious of Iamausername and Korts, because a controversial idea (as I believe a massclaim is) proposed by one person, and supported by a second soon after generally serves to sway those who would ordinarily be on the fence about the idea.

In the interest of protecting power roles, many players raise arguments against a mass roleclaim near the beginning of the game. But we're talking about lynch-or-lose here, and there isn't really much of a downside.

Not sure about the advantages, though. We don't have an open list of roles, and the RtDII theme isn't exactly a good-and-evil situation. Suppose someone claims Balco Chewable Steroids. There's no way to tell whether that's a scum role or a town role.

Null strategy, in my opinion.

[Mokina]

Also, we'll be forcing the scum to pin themselves to one particular claim, which will be a good thing if we later reach a point where they discover it would be more beneficial for them to claim something else. If we don't massclaim now, we're letting them keep their options open for later.

Fair enough. I'm in.

[Mokina]

Fair enough. I'm in.

Do you have a choice of who goes first?

Amusingly, yes. I would prefer

you

go first.

[Mokina]

Popcorn, yo. I'm the

UH-1Y "CHOPPA"

. There was a lot of explanation, but I am essentially a one-shot vig. I haven't used my ability yet. If we end up with another night and an obvious scum, I'll know what to do.

Questions/comments with paraphrased claims:

Elusive Glass of Water, Bulletproof Vest

NK-immune is a common scum claim, but considering the number of killing roles in this game, it's actually not all that surprising. You'd think someone with a bulletproof vest would try to get themselves attacked more, but both Iron Man and Korts have kept their heads down. Mixed feelings.

The Wii that Everyone Forgot/Tragic Love Story, Vanilla Townies

Feels about right as far as balance goes. No concerns here.

Projectile Bed, Likely Vanilla Townie

Side note... I have a feeling most of our PMs were pointlessly long. You're probably a townie too.

Duct Tape Locker, Jailkeeper

Sketchy claim, and especially so in a game with a confirmed doctor (CDB). I'm sure everyone would like to hear who RandomGem protected/blocked over the last few nights.

Chaff Gun, Vote Blocker

This role exists in FDaT, as RandomGem can attest. Since there's no counterclaim, we have to assume it's Zakeri. Minor concern about this role anyway, since it's close to being inherently antitown. Possible scum power?

Thoughts?

[Mokina]

RG's jailer claim makes me a bit suspicious of him. As Zakeri has pointed out, it's more than a little unusual to have three roles that block NKs. Also, Duct Tape Locker isn't the most pro-town role. Scum RB springs to mind.

@RandomGem: please claim your night choices.

Zakeri's claim may indicate scum power, but to be honest, I'm thinking it would overpower scum too much to give them a role that can take away one town vote. I think Zakeri's likely town, since the existence of his role has been proven, and no-one else has counterclaimed, while the nature of his role points towards him being town.

I could see a godfather claiming NK-immune anyway simply to avoid a nightkill. And yes, it

is

suspicious to have three roles blocking NKs. And no, I've never heard of an antitown jailkeeper.

Iron Man lurked, and even you have avoided presenting too much of a target. This isn't consistent with what you've claimed, and combined with the series of aggressive moves today, I think I've found one of the scum.

Vote: Korts

Zakeri, you're working with the assumption that Godfathers are generally NK-immune as well as investigation-immune, while more usually it's only the latter. Also, please further explain how Mokina can only be scum if there are only two of them, because I don't follow.

Very fair point. The best way to test this:

Vote: RandomGem

I'm not really understanding iamausername's argument about myself and RandomGem. I suspect him among others, but it would be fallacious indeed to call me antitown for doing so, even if he flips scum.

He had still better claim his nightchoices, though.

[Mokina]

I was agreeing with his point that if RG is town, we can't achieve a scum lynch today without scum bussing, assuming three remaining scum out of seven players.

Fair enough. A worthy observation.

And yes, it is suspicious to have three roles blocking NKs.

Apologies about my most recent post; it was a bit rushed due to an 8:15 class. I thought of something new... drake. He was a protective role too.

The confirmed doctor and elite bodyguard bring our count of protective roles up to four. That's exceedingly unlikely in this setup, so I believe we can find scum in either RandomGem or Korts. I will not entirely discount the possibility that both are scum and Korts is bussing RandomGem, but a fakeclaim/counterclaim situation is more likely.

Here's why. While it makes perfect rational sense for Korts-scum to claim bulletproof at the beginning, it

does not

make rational sense for RandomGem-scum to claim jailkeeper when he did. I'm treating RandomGem's as the counterclaim. Ergo, Korts is a liar. I'm inclined to vote for the liar.

Confirm Vote.

If people want a larger-scale explanation for why Korts' choice makes scummy sense... basically, NK-immune is one of the easiest mafia fakeclaims in the game. It isn't verifiable unless there's a vigilante, but during LYLO that conveniently doesn't matter. And since it still looks like a power role, the town is unwilling to commit to a lynch.

The other meta-reason is Korts' willingness to massclaim. As soon as the day started, Korts pushed for it. This wasn't a move to be taken lightly. After all, even if we lynch scum today, any antitowns left will have all the real claims.

[Mokina]

Hmm, RG's choices aren't filling me with confidence in him; notice how they're all players who have claimed no night action, which would make them 'safe' claims for scum, since there's no way for him to be proved lying by supposedly blocking someone who hadn't been blocked.

True, but nobody's really done anything at night except for the mafia. It's not a verifiable claim, but it's the best we can do.

Hmm... Cautious play from a bulletproof townie. That's not making sense to me either. I would expect the BP to be more aggressive than this, so:

Unvote: RandomGem
Vote: Korts

My original impression of StrangerCoug was that he was a bit stuck on the learning curve. He's virtually duplicated my vote and argument throughout the course of the game, which was strange but not terribly distinguished from a newbtell. This most recent one's a little unnerving, though...

Yeah, OK, if that's not scum angling for a quicklynch, I will buy a hat just so I can eat it.

FoS: StrangerCoug

I'd be willing to vote for him at this point due to sheer willingness to follow the town... but even if SC is part of the mafia, I would speculate he is bussing Korts to distance himself. I say we let him.

[Mokina]

Calling me a liar because I claimed first is a fallacy. RGscum has just as much motive to counterclaim me as a defensive/protective role

exactly because

it would be treated as a counterclaim, essentially forcing the town to decide between him and me. Are you meaning to say that scum never counterclaim pro-town power roles?

An enlightening counter-argument, tainted only slightly by WIFOM.

Unvote, Vote: StrangerCoug

=======[]

Nighty-night.

[Mokina]

Well yes, but your point was just as much WIFOM as my reply. I'm saying the timing's validity as a scumtell is diminished exactly by the WIFOM factor.

Fair enough. You're probably right about StrangerCoug.

[Mokina]

Congratz to Kairyuu and especially Mokina for both tricking me completely.

Thanks! First time playing as scum...

I know I'm not scum, and I'm confident enough in her townliness to discount Mokina as scum.

...but apparently I came across as a pillar of integrity.

*shrug*