Mini 644 - Meerkat Manor Mafia (Game Over!)

[StrangerCoug]

You see how much clarification helps, Cass?

I'll go ahead and look at Bogre.

Unvote: Cass

in the meantime.

[StrangerCoug]

Bogre's post in isolation reveal that his 11th post is an attempt to line up lynches, which is not a good thing. The fact that his twelfth post has a defense starting with "It might be WIFOM" is leading me to disbelieve said defense.

Vote: Bogre

[Rhinox]

For a vote not to be opportunistic in my eyes, I need the reasons or where I can get them in front of my nose when I see the vote. It's me.

Cass gave plenty of reasons for her vote, as already explained. Either you're not reading the thread, or you just selectively missed them. Either way, her reasons are much more justified than you calling her opportunistic. Yes, I'm accusing you of hypocrasy.

These two posts are raising red flags where I'm sitting:

You see how much clarification helps, Cass?

I'll go ahead and look at Bogre.

Unvote: Cass

in the meantime.

Bogre's post in isolation reveal that his 11th post is an attempt to line up lynches, which is not a good thing. The fact that his twelfth post has a defense starting with "It might be WIFOM" is leading me to disbelieve said defense.

Vote: Bogre

These two posts seem both like appeasement and opportunism. First, you're taking heat for weakly voting cass, so you unvote quickly. Then, you justify your vote on Bogre with an argument that was made in the last couple pages. It also tells me you're possibly not doing a good job in reading the thread. That case against Bogre has been around for a little while now, and just now you're deciding its scummy enough to vote? After you accused Cass of opportunisticly voting for Bogre? It seems very fishy to me.

I think Bogre has a lot to explain right now, but I also think Coug's lastest posts are very suspect. I'm not sure if you're play is wholly consistent with scum play, but its suspect enough to deserve a vote imo.

vote: StrangerCoug

[StrangerCoug]

Before I say anything else, is failure to pay attention necessarily scummy?

[Ectomancer]

Before I say anything else, is failure to pay attention necessarily scummy?

Depends on what you fail to pay attention

to

I agree with Rhinox that your vote looks to be exactly what you accused Cass of doing.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, how about the word "bandwagon" causing me to overlook Cass saying that she "thought [Bogre] was scummy yesterday" and that "he's not contributing today"? I reread her post and realized that she did indeed have somewhat of a good case (hence the clarification bit I posted).

[curiouskarmadog]

Before I say anything else, is failure to pay attention necessarily scummy?

yes

not liking his recent votes, not liking his explanation for no reason at the beginning of the day...not liking yesterday's play.

vote coug

also, i dont think I am understanding the case against Bog...some please explain

[wolframnhart]

@curious

My case against Bogre is this. He voted for MM after three people already had, and after he was FoSed by two people for lurking, basically saying he agreed with Clocks case. Ecto did the same soon after. Bogre then jumped on Ecto for his vote, saying that ecto was using the "wave" of people voting for MM. He then says we shouldn't lynch lurkers and tried to set up Ecto as todays lynch at the same time. All this is very scummy in my eyes, especially the setting up of a lynch for the next day.

[Cass]

He also made only one post this entire game-day, in which he didn't address these issues at all. Nor anything else of relevance. Trying to stay off the radar by disappearing? That just doesn't fly. A bandwagon is good. A lynch I wouldn't regret.

If I had two votes, I'd vote StrangerCoug too.

@Stranger: YES it is scummy to vote someone for a post you apparantly didn't even read all the way through. Especially if your cited reason is 'opportunism' . It wasn't exactly a wall of text either...

[wolframnhart]

I see the point about Coug, the day 1 vote that happened made people wonder, and now the mess up about the post, but so far i think he just goofed around (the wrong way i agree) with the vote thing and could have just made an honest mistake with the post thing. Cougs actions do not make me think scum as much as Bogres have.

[wolframnhart]

mod can we get a current vote count, and prods on Jonathen, Bogre, and Muffinman?

[muffinhead]

Bogre's post in isolation reveal that his 11th post is an attempt to line up lynches, which is not a good thing. The fact that his twelfth post has a defense starting with "It might be WIFOM" is leading me to disbelieve said defense.

Vote: Bogre

coug can you further explain this more as it seems your just trying to come up with a reason to vote him. It looks oppotunistic as cass was doing and you targetted him so it looks totally hipocrtical. Not one post you have made today has looked good so

unvote
vote coug

Im trying to understand the bogre case and i would like to request quotes of his scumminess if you want me to even consider joining the wagon. I would like to hear from bogre defend him self again.

I see the point about Coug, the day 1 vote that happened made people wonder, and now the mess up about the post, but so far i think he just goofed around (the wrong way i agree) with the vote thing and could have just made an honest mistake with the post thing. Cougs actions do not make me think scum as much as Bogres have.

@wolf- How come you think that cougs posting is just an honest mistake? I find it hard to imagine his posts being simply errors of calculation, plz explain.

To be all honest i think im beginning to lose intrest in this game so I will try to keep up as much as posible and try not to e a lurker as I personally hate them

[jonathantan86]

But the part i hate most is the final paragrapgh. You said you wanted to see whether clock was right. We are here to lynch scum, not to see whther he was voting for scum. Thats why I think your looking for a desperate reason to vote him and thats why I think your scum.
vote ecto

Hmm...I don't think that is a good enough case against ecto to justify a vote.

coug can you further explain this more as it seems your just trying to come up with a reason to vote him. It looks oppotunistic as cass was doing and you targetted him so it looks totally hipocrtical. Not one post you have made today has looked good so

unvote
vote coug

Hmm...I thought a few people have already explained the bogre case? It is possibly opportunistic, but I think there are good reasons for voting for bogre.

[Rishi]

Vote Count

Bogre – 3 (wolframnhart, Cass, StrangerCoug)
StrangerCoug – 3 (Rhinox, curiouskarmadog, muffinhead)

Not voting: Ectomancer, jonathantan86, Bogre

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Prodding Bogre.

[Rhinox]

To be all honest i think im beginning to lose intrest in this game so I will try to keep up as much as posible and try not to e a lurker as I personally hate them

FoS: muffinhead

This looks to me as you're just trying to find an excuse to be able to lurk without being questioned for it. If your loss in interest in the game is affecting your activity, you need to ask for a replacement. You don't get a pass to be less active or lurk just because you're becoming uninterested in the game.

I'm also curious as to why you're unable to see the case against Bogre? If you want quotes of his scumminess, just look through Page 11 shortly after D2 started, specifically looking for a post from wolf where he laid the whole thing out. It sounds like you might be trying to defend Bogre too much and its something I'll remember if at some point Bogre shows up scum. Its one thing to disagree with the case against him, its something completely different to say you don't see a case at all and to go after coug for voting him.

[wolframnhart]

@muffin

First, I think cougs posting was an honest mistake because I have done the same thing myself before. I think that coug is so far scum hunting, but maybe his overzealousness caused him to mis-read. If it happened multiple times then I would think he is trying to twist words to his advantage, but it was just once, an honest mistake which he already explained and apologized for.

Also I know both jonathan and rhinox have both just told you to do the same thing, but if you go back (and its not like its that many pages) you will see I already posted Bogres posts that made me believe he is scummy, I have explained them, twice, and also I had even answered this type of question for you already, which makes me believe you are either extremely not paying attention at all, or you are just trying to mix up a lil confusion to defend your partner, if bogre turns scum which i believe to be highly likely.

FoS Muffinhead

[wolframnhart]

@jonathan

Ok you came back and did a quick post about Muffins quote, but what else? Do you have an opinion on anyone else aside from saying there are good reasons for voting Bogre?

[StrangerCoug]

Bogre's post in isolation reveal that his 11th post is an attempt to line up lynches, which is not a good thing. The fact that his twelfth post has a defense starting with "It might be WIFOM" is leading me to disbelieve said defense.

Vote: Bogre

coug can you further explain this more as it seems your just trying to come up with a reason to vote him. It looks oppotunistic as cass was doing and you targetted him so it looks totally hipocrtical. Not one post you have made today has looked good so

unvote
vote coug

Legitimate reasons for a vote on Bogre ≠ opportunistic vote on Bogre. I also don't remember Cass saying Bogre admitted to WIFOM, so unless my memory fails me, that is my own reasoning.

FoS: muffinman

for misrepresenting me.

Oh, and see those drop-down boxes at the bottom of the page where they say "Display posts from previous: [All Posts] by [All users] [Oldest First]"? The drop-down box that says [All users] is your best friend, as it allows you the option to view someone's posts in isolation. Click on "Bogre" and you'll see which two posts I'm talking about. (I don't count his Post 0 as it's just his confirmation, so by "his 11th post" it matches up to his Post 11 in isolation.) Sometimes it's better to see the posts in question in context (i.e. you should leave it at "All users"), but if I want a quick look at a person, that's what I do.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP:

FoS: muffinman

for misrepresenting me.

That should say "

FoS: muffinhead

" for misrepresenting me."

[curiouskarmadog]

To be all honest

I find that people who tend to use this phrase are scum.

unvote, vote Muffin.

have you not been honest about other things?

[Rhinox]

unvote: strangercoug

because although he was possibly unfairly targetting Cass, for now I can accept that it was an honest mistake because I think both Bogre and Muffin are good potential scum targets. Bogre especially isn't looking very good at the moment, and if at some point we find out bogre is scum, it might be good to strongly consider muffin as a scum partner.

However, CKD, I'm not sure I like this post of yours...

To be all honest

I find that people who tend to use this phrase are scum.

unvote, vote Muffin.

have you not been honest about other things?

Unless you are not fluent in the english language, you would know "To be honest" is a common figure of speech that maybe shouldn't be used as much as it is because the literal implication is that you have not been honest. Its like if someone asks you "Do you like football?" and you answer "Honestly, I'm more of a hockey fan." That example wouldn't make me wonder what you were lying about, and just the same, I don't think that particular phrase makes muffin a liar either.

Actually, I think that was a very weak and opportunistic reason for voting muffin... After muffin was taking heat, but early enough to vote without being accused of just jumping on a wagon.

Vote: CKD

because we're not only hunting scum... there are potentially more predator roles out there, and if Bogre and Muffin do happen to be scum together, I could see CKD filling in as a predator role quite nicely. And I'm actually more worried about predators than I am the commandoes. Daykills are scary and unpredictable.

[curiouskarmadog]

unvote: strangercoug

because although he was possibly unfairly targetting Cass, for now I can accept that it was an honest mistake because I think both Bogre and Muffin are good potential scum targets. Bogre especially isn't looking very good at the moment, and if at some point we find out bogre is scum, it might be good to strongly consider muffin as a scum partner.

However, CKD, I'm not sure I like this post of yours...

To be all honest

I find that people who tend to use this phrase are scum.

unvote, vote Muffin.

have you not been honest about other things?

Unless you are not fluent in the english language, you would know "To be honest" is a common figure of speech that maybe shouldn't be used as much as it is because the literal implication is that you have not been honest. Its like if someone asks you "Do you like football?" and you answer "Honestly, I'm more of a hockey fan." That example wouldn't make me wonder what you were lying about, and just the same, I don't think that particular phrase makes muffin a liar either.

Actually, I think that was a very weak and opportunistic reason for voting muffin... After muffin was taking heat, but early enough to vote without being accused of just jumping on a wagon.

Vote: CKD

because we're not only hunting scum... there are potentially more predator roles out there, and if Bogre and Muffin do happen to be scum together, I could see CKD filling in as a predator role quite nicely. And I'm actually more worried about predators than I am the commandoes. Daykills are scary and unpredictable.

this is not the first time I have caught scum using this subconcious slip AND it is not the first time I have commented on this particular phrase or phrases of the like..."to be honest", "in all honesty", "Honestly I have never...", or my favorite "to tell the truth".

But dont take my word for it I can supply you with 2-3 games (they should be completed) that scum have used those terms..

it is a slip...keep in mind I also caught Clock on a scum slip too...

I am noting this attack or defense....there is no bandwagon on Muffin..just FoSes..the current vote leaders are coug and Bogre...so I am being oppertunistic by jumping off the leading bandwagon?

Also you think my vote was just solely on that?...funny you didnt ask before you attacked/defended Muffin.

[jonathantan86]

Ok you came back and did a quick post about Muffins quote, but what else? Do you have an opinion on anyone else aside from saying there are good reasons for voting Bogre?

My opinion on Muffin is hopefully conveyed through my last post...I lean towards him being scum, and it seems that other people agree. Some people FoS Muffin; if it's OK I would like to FoS a Muffin-Bogre scum pairing (unless there's three or more Commandos, which I highly doubt).

No real read on wolframnhart, except that pushing for looking for connections seem pro-town to me. Wolf, what are the results of your findings so far?

Cass seems generally pro-town except (maybe) for the part where she says looking for connections are pointless. I think that there is a connection (mentioned in my game setup speculation post) and Cass might be avoiding being linked to Clock. Although I don't think this is highly possible...I don't recall any connection between Cass and clock, and she's saying that to avoid derailing the conversation.

I agree with the cases against SC and bogre. (And I'm not saying this because I'm too lazy to think for myself...I did speak up against the MM case.)

I'll post my opinions about the rest later.

[wolframnhart]

No real read on wolframnhart, except that pushing for looking for connections seem pro-town to me. Wolf, what are the results of your findings so far?

My findings is my case against Bogre. I agreed with Cass that Clock had probably tried to use Woodsmans death to frame Mafiamann, but Woodsman proved to be a tough meekrat! After my read through though, Bogre did stand out the most to me because of his lynch setup for today, and the way he attacked Ecto for Ectos vote, when Bogre had done the same thing himself.

[muffinhead]

@ jonathen and Rhinox- What makes you think that me and bogre are scumpartners?

@ ckd, well your theory is clearly wrong firstly. then you say this

Also you think my vote was just solely on that?...funny you didnt ask before you attacked/defended Muffin.

anyways are you being honest as well?

post about bogre later