Open 86 - Lovers Multiball (Game Over)

[Alabaska J]

kloud means ssf not ssk I believe.

massclaim

since Adel has lost all faith in his "scumtell"

Also, armlx is in this game?

[destructor]

.::] Vote Count [::.

*

OpposedForce (2)

- Adel, Crazy

Alabaska J (1)

- Erratus Apathos

kloud1516 (1)

- ThAdmiral

Cerebus3 (1)

- SleepyPanda

Adel (2)

- Alabaska J, Raging Rabbit

Not Voting (15) - sekinj, OpposedForce, somestrangeflea, Harvey Pew, pwnz, DarlaBlueEyes, charter, Cephrir, neko2086, cerebus3, farside22, armlx, WaltWishbone, wolframnhart, kloud1516

Twelve

votes to lynch.

[SleepyPanda]

You're asking what started the fire wagon when you were on it. Does that make a lot of sense? It looks your vote on Fire at first was a distancing attempt and your quote above was an out to allow yourself to backtrack.

uhhhhh.... no. That statement was supposed to make people go, hey, that reasoning is similar to why we think firestarter is scum, so maybe there is something there. If anything I was supporting the firestarter wagon. (The question was rhetorical in other words, not literal.)

Is guilt by association all you have?.

What/who are you referring to by 'there'?

I'm going by what I see. Are you saying we shouldn't be trying to look for connections?

Maybe I would be more sympathetic if you had actually read what I was talking about panda. You clearly have no idea what was going on when I made that post, yet you call it scummy. did you even read page 17? I suggest you do, and stop blatantly ignoring context.

Dybek had just dropped a vote on SSF in a similar fashion that Firestarter did, and IcemanE called him out on it.

Maybe I would be more sympathetic if you hadn't left everything completely vague. I'm not ignoring context if you've never referenced it in the first place. You have never mentioned dybeck or SSF specifically in your posts, until now. When you said you agree with iceman, he made multiple posts in between yours. You didn't bother to quote anything. Your question asking what started the Fire wagon cannot be immediately recognized as rhetorical and it can be interpreted different ways. Am I suppose to be a mind reader?


The last question is rhetorical btw, but it's quite straightfoward though, so you probably already knew.

reading SSF's posts I can understand the suspicion. however, if we are basing it mostly on lurking, let's open our eyes a little:

Here a few of our lurkers:
Armix - I know, you are thinking, who? yeah, he has posted one time. he replaced someone who had posted 2 times.
DBE - Yes, adel brought attention to her by claiming she intentionally put ice at L-1. with a total of 10 posts to her name, I doubt she knew the votecount, and I really doubt voting her is going to encourage participation.
Harvey pew - 7 total posts. votes fire, then switches to crazy after pressure from ice... these look pretty scummy.
Walt - 8 posts... notice the self-congratulation after the lynch...

If we want to shine some light on these lurkers I'd like some answers from harvey pew expecially.

@harvey: Why did you switch your vote to crazy at the say-so of ice? what do you think of crazy now?

@sekinj, nice quintuple posting. An attempt to boost your total posts? Yeah, I'm on to you.

The only time armlx posted was to say he'll be back Tuesday. Just turned Tuesday though.

I agree with hearing more from Harvey.

@Harvey, at one point, you mentioned reading over the ice and Crazy cases at the time and said that you found Crazy to be worse and voted accordingly. When you said worse, did you mean in comparison to iceman? If you found iceman even a tad scummy, why call him an "inno"?

[Raging Rabbit]

potential scumtell: a player distancing himslef from his lover prior to claiming.
basis: scum tend to distance themselves from their partners, and could also distance themselves from their lover out of habit or reflex. A

fos

of a lover would be a particularly strong version of the tell.

I didn't lose faith in the iceman lynch, I lost faith in the informational potential of the iceman lynch, especially if it proved to be a mislynch. I also wanted to identify who was blindly following me, and to put some pressure on DBE to post more.

No idea why you didn't say this earlier, but this actually makes a lot of sense. I suppose there's no harm done about the switch to DBE since it obviously had no chance of changing the lynch, so you got some info to boot. What to you make of people's response to your switch to DBE, all the FOSes and such?

Unvote. Massclaim.

[pwnz]

Massclaim

[Harvey Pew]

Harvey pew - 7 total posts. votes fire, then switches to crazy after pressure from ice... these look pretty scummy.
@harvey: Why did you switch your vote to crazy at the say-so of ice? what do you think of crazy now?

You are mistaken. I did not switch my vote because Ice asked me too. Ice, like yourself and SleepyP, stated that I should post more. At the time I was voting for Firestarter. I did a re-read, posted my thoughts and changed my vote to match what I thought. On D1 I was not satisfied with the play of either Crazy

or

Ice, but Crazy's actions and statements seemed more suspicious than Ice. All this information is included in the original voting post.

If you found iceman even a tad scummy, why call him an "inno"?

Because I believe it is possible for townies to make mistakes and

for it to be no more than that

. I prefer to assume innocence. Jumping on every error screaming "scum!" does not appeal to me. You must have seen it yourself in the games where you are mafia: many town players grasp at a single mistake and build it into a case which you

know

is complete nonsense. As a townie I am certain that this has happened here/is happening here/will happen here in the future.

I am pleased we caught some mafia here but I think it was down more to good fortune than skill. As evinced by sekinj trying to make a case on D2 for me being scum, based solely on the fact that

I didn't vote as he did

. Since he FoS'd Crazy twice D1 and devoted a post to simply stating "FoS: Harvey" I'm not particularly moved.

On a re-read I still don't like Crazy's D1 play. But I do agreed with his proposition that sekinj is Adel's partner, or if not Adel then someone who is gaining lynch votes. So, again, I do not see sekinj as immediately scum because he is voting an inno but as someone determined to get the focus and votes off his partner. While I do not approve of his immediate focus the action is entirely understandable.

[Harvey Pew]

EBWOP

massclaim

[OpposedForce]

I just reread a couple people. OF sticks out badly to me.

Unvote, Vote OpposedForce

.

Also I'm not sure about Adel's scumtell thing. I don't understand it generally so elaboration would be helpful to why people would change their minds of a early lover mass claim.

Here he shows that he doesn't know what the scum-tell was.

And later:

What I see is Crazy defending adel as town as well as the scumtell. Adel isn't even confirmed town and Crazy is already assuming she is and following the scumtell. Attacking a person for a statement from someone and stating their town is pretty scummy.

This is bad. Think back to the mentality of that time as I say this:

OF did not know what the scum-tell was. Thus, how can he really accuse me of confirming Adel as town? He didn't know the scum-tell, so he would have no idea what we were talking about, right? So how could he know that my logic was bad?

Yeah great logic there your pretty much lying to youself here. I didn't know the scumtell and neither did you. The difference between me not knowing the scumtell and you not knowing the scumtell is that you used it to attack a person and confirm adel as confirmed town (don't believe me?)

This is stupid. Look at it my way:

-Adel knows about said scum-tell and made a point to actually bring it up.
-I have a feeling I know what she is talking about, so a secret scum-tell

does

actually exist.

The only way that Adel is scum is the following:

Adel made up the fact that there is a secret-scumtell and somehow got lucky since there actually

is

one.

I am about 90% sure Adel is town

. I am about equally sure Iceman is scum. This post I quoted a second ago really settles it:

Crap case on me. What are you pretending to actually scumhunt and pin crap on me?

Vote:Crazy

[somestrangeflea]

I have a feeling that sekinj is Adel's lover.

Ooh! This game's fun.
My money's on pwnz/Alabaska.

[somestrangeflea]

Oh and

massclaim

.

[Cephrir]

Adel's scum tell does make sense, although I don't think it was necessarily worthy of so much suspense. I guess that tell might help us get more info from day 1, but it definitely won't help us anymore since scum know what it is. I suppose we may as well

massclaim

=/

[neko2086]

OF, the difference between Crazy not knowing the scumtell and you not knowing it is that you knew you didn't know it, while Crazy, I still believe, thought he knew what it was. Crazy said lots of weird things, and putting them in bold might look like you're making a good case, but in context, you're just harping on old news.

Crazy assumed the town knew something the scum didn't, so if he and Adel were thinking the same thing, of course he'd think Adel was town.

[charter]

Are there any reasons for massclaiming? Just people being lazy or what?

[Cephrir]

So that we can use Adel's scumtell. That's my reason anyway, dunno about everyone else.

[OpposedForce]

OF, the difference between Crazy not knowing the scumtell and you not knowing it is that you knew you didn't know it, while Crazy, I still believe, thought he knew what it was. Crazy said lots of weird things, and putting them in bold might look like you're making a good case, but in context, you're just harping on old news.

Crazy assumed the town knew something the scum didn't, so if he and Adel were thinking the same thing, of course he'd think Adel was town.

Yet he comes out of nowhere with a two posts from early in the game to push on me to make it seem like he's scum hunting. Why attack me out of nowhere when he could of stated this Day 1? The case he has on me is crap and he's going nowhere with it.

[destructor]

Knight of Cydonia replaces farside22.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Massclaim

Reading up now, would anyone care to give me the gist of things, other than this massclaim plan?

[neko2086]

Why aren't you asking your lover? After all, that is the only person who you can be sure of their alignment.


OF, I see your point. I think both your arguments, however, are going nowhere.

[Raging Rabbit]

We are in some sort of lovers conference, only we decided to lynch someone every day so that his partner will go all Shakespearian and kill himself. This is because we suspect that some of us are gangsters and/or werewolves.

Other than that, you should read the game and make up your own mind.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Why aren't you asking your lover? After all, that is the only person who you can be sure of their alignment.

I am, but unfortunately Crazy doesn't seem to be around right now.
I'm on Page 20 now, should have my first meaningful post soon.

[cerebus3]

@panda: It was the thing that was getting the most attention at the time (to me anyway), so I didn't feel like it was necessary to quote anything, but whatever.

Now that you know what I was talking about, why are you still voting me?

[cerebus3]

Oh, and because I didn't say anything earlier, I am ambivalent towards a mass claim.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Okay, I really don't like Adel, what with the whole flip-flop on the masslcaim/scumtell thing - at least, it looks like a flip-flip to me. I don't have time for mroe analysis right now, will do a proper one next post.

[Erratus Apathos]

Are there any reasons for massclaiming? Just people being lazy or what?

I'd rather have twice as much information per team now, rather than find out after someone gets run up.

[Crazy]

So, OF, the reason I'm just accusing you now is because I just did a reread of a couple people. You were one of them. I found something I thought to be scummy, so I voted for you. That's how it works. Your OMGUS really isn't helping your case, and you're just really reaching because you think I'll be an easy lynch.

(Neko's post 761 is correct)

Okay, I really don't like Adel, what with the whole flip-flop on the masslcaim/scumtell thing - at least, it looks like a flip-flip to me. I don't have time for mroe analysis right now, will do a proper one next post.

I like Adel. Essentially the case on her is the same as the case on me. It's not flip-flopping if it's for a good reason.

(Not distancing, btw, just a little lovers' quarrel)