Open 86 - Lovers Multiball (Game Over)

[Alabaska J]

I have a feeling that sekinj is Adel's lover.

zomg I agree with Crazy.

[Erratus Apathos]

What exactly is all this lover speculation supposed to accomplish?

[kloud1516]

Alright *takes a deep, deep breath* I have finally finished the daunting task of reading through 29 and accumulating pages of content from this thread. Right now, I have a serious headache from staring at a computer screen filled with content and multiple arguments, so I will post an analysis a little later. I

would

like to address this right now:

So, that was a good lynch. I have an idea of his potential partners. dybecks defense of iceman was suspect in my opinion.

kloud1516, welcome to the game. Have you had a chance to read through the daytalk of dybeck and his lover? Any indication why he tried to defend iceman/firestarter? Can you paraphrase a bit of that conversation and post?

fos: kloud1516

@ Walt: Yes, I have had a chance to read over the daytalk of my lover and dybeck. I would gladly paraphrase the conversation in hopes of clarifying a few things for the group.

1) Mod explains the quicktopic is for daytalk
2) Lover greets dybeck
3) Lover asks if dybeck really feels that SSK is the best lynch for the day. Asks dybeck to give reasoning if he feels that SSK is the right choice
4) Dybeck claims that he isn't sure. Says that Fire/Ice could be scum, but didn't think the case presented was very convincing at that point. Feels like there should be pressure on more people.
5) Lover agrees that Fire/Ice/OP are the most scummy and best candidates for lynch.
6) I replace dybeck

I am not really sure what dybeck was getting at with the vote against SSK, and I feel that it will be necessary for me to go and read back over his posts when my head isn't throbbing, as I may be of more help to the town at tip-top shape. More to come a little later.

[charter]

Is that the full extent of your daytalk? Nothing else you left out?

[kloud1516]

Yes, that is the full extent of dybeck's daytalk with his/my lover. Nothing omitted. Given his activity level I do not think that this should be all that shocking.

[charter]

It looks like I need to go back and see how much merit there is to the dybeckscum theory.

[Adel]

What exactly is all this lover speculation supposed to accomplish?

spamming up the thread, corruption of the signal:noise ratio, and possible to bury the one very legitimate case presented so far this day.

[Crazy]

That daytalk is believable. Dybeck seemed pretty pro-town to me near the end of Day 1, though.

On another note, I don't buy Panda's case against Cerebus. As soon as he did a *headdesk* post immediately after I hinted at what my scum-tell was, I put him in my town list. (If you think about it, you'll understand why)

[Raging Rabbit]

Has anyone noticed that we lynched scum before I flip-flopped on the massclaim.

So?

[Adel]

it changes the dynamics of the game. My scumtell idea works better if there are four scum pairs left in the game. Anyhow, I've lost some faith in my scumtell since I was typing out a post and almost hit "submit" before I noticed that it was full of the type of behavor my scumtell depended upon identifying in scum. I now suspect that the number of false positives will be too high for my scumtell to be worth very much. I also think that if we are going to pressure lurkers, like SSF, then it is necessary to massclaim. One player lurking is anti-town. Both lover in a couple lurking is scummy.

[Crazy]

Someone who supports the mass-claim, claim, then maybe we can pressure everyone else into doing it.

I also think someone should say what the scum-tell was, since now it's invalid-ish. I think I'd prefer that Sekinj say it instead of Adel.

[wolframnhart]

here, i support the mass claim, so does my lover.
My lover is OpposedForce

[SleepyPanda]

You're asking what started the fire wagon when you were on it. Does that make a lot of sense? It looks your vote on Fire at first was a distancing attempt and your quote above was an out to allow yourself to backtrack.

uhhhhh.... no. That statement was supposed to make people go, hey, that reasoning is similar to why we think firestarter is scum, so maybe there is something there. If anything I was supporting the firestarter wagon. (The question was rhetorical in other words, not literal.)

Is guilt by association all you have?.

What/who are you referring to by 'there'?

I'm going by what I see. Are you saying we shouldn't be trying to look for connections?

On another note, I don't buy Panda's case against Cerebus. As soon as he did a *headdesk* post immediately after I hinted at what my scum-tell was, I put him in my town list. (If you think about it, you'll understand why)

You've already labeled him as town because he found your scumtell to be quite dumb? I think at that point, the majority felt the exact same way. It's nice that you can determine a person's alignment so easily. I prefer to do some legwork, but I guess that's just me.

[Crazy]

You've already labeled him as town because he found your scumtell to be quite dumb? I think at that point, the majority felt the exact same way. It's nice that you can determine a person's alignment so easily. I prefer to do some legwork, but I guess that's just me.

Well, I was right about Iceman trying to fake his way through that scum-tell, while the rest of you were going *no duh that crazy dude is stupid* That's going on my record.

I do believe in town-tells, and I believe cerebus' *headdesk* post was a town-tell. Mainly because he was confident that he knew what I meant by the "how many PMs do you have in your inbox." I'm pretty sure that scum would be cautious there and wonder if townies

did

actually get another PM that they didn't know about.

[Raging Rabbit]

Adel - if you've lost faith in it and it isn't gonna be of use anyway, please just tell us what it is. No use keeping it secret anymore, right?
Also, what made you lose faith in your case against Iceman so much that you switched to voting DBE because of her (L-1) vote on him?

I support the massclaim, will claim once I get the ok from my lover.

[Adel]

potential scumtell: a player distancing himslef from his lover prior to claiming.
basis: scum tend to distance themselves from their partners, and could also distance themselves from their lover out of habit or reflex. A

fos

of a lover would be a particularly strong version of the tell.

I didn't lose faith in the iceman lynch, I lost faith in the informational potential of the iceman lynch, especially if it proved to be a mislynch. I also wanted to identify who was blindly following me, and to put some pressure on DBE to post more.

[Adel]

here, i support the mass claim, so does my lover.
My lover is OpposedForce

try posting

massclaim

in bold letter. Also consider not claiming without town consensus next time.

I only count four players who support the massclaim at this point.

[neko2086]

why would a scum FOS their partner while knowing an eventual massclaim would be inevitable?

[Adel]

why would a scum FOS their partner while knowing an eventual massclaim would be inevitable?

by getting too caught up with pretending to be town and pretending not to know who the other members of the scum team are. That is one approach I use to catch scum: identify where error creeps in when a scum player attempts to emulate townie play.


but like I said, I lost some faith in it after I almost attacked my lover in the game thread.

[sekinj]

@Adel: You are pretty sexy, but my heart is elsewhere.

@crazy: Why do you deny me? I thought we had something special together....

Okay, I know someone is going to go nuts about me cracking jokes, but really, this game is HUGE. and I find sex amusing... so anyway.

[sekinj]

reading SSF's posts I can understand the suspicion. however, if we are basing it mostly on lurking, let's open our eyes a little:

Here a few of our lurkers:
Armix - I know, you are thinking, who? yeah, he has posted one time. he replaced someone who had posted 2 times.
DBE - Yes, adel brought attention to her by claiming she intentionally put ice at L-1. with a total of 10 posts to her name, I doubt she knew the votecount, and I really doubt voting her is going to encourage participation.
Harvey pew - 7 total posts. votes fire, then switches to crazy after pressure from ice... these look pretty scummy.
Walt - 8 posts... notice the self-congratulation after the lynch...

If we want to shine some light on these lurkers I'd like some answers from harvey pew expecially.

@harvey: Why did you switch your vote to crazy at the say-so of ice? what do you think of crazy now?

[sekinj]

Fos: harvey

[sekinj]

Although I think dybeck was being hypocritical by calling us a lazy town, I don't think he was really acting scummy. He did do some fresh scumhunting, which I believe will end up being benefiical to the town. I think is was weird though that he stayed involved after asking to be replaced.

[sekinj]

I still think we shoudl wait a few days before we mass claim. Then we can draw more parallels between people after seeing how they act and react. (look at crazy and farside for example, weird interactions before they claimed!)

Right now I do think we should be looking for associations or maybe distancing between fire/ice and some other pair. Then once we get the werewolves, we can look at the players who were scummy in others ways or too wagoning, or maybe lurking, and catch the mafia that way... I'm not sure why adel thinks it would be better or easier to start trying to find the other quad.

sorry for the multiple posts... these are all kind of different thoughts...

[cerebus3]

You're asking what started the fire wagon when you were on it. Does that make a lot of sense? It looks your vote on Fire at first was a distancing attempt and your quote above was an out to allow yourself to backtrack.

uhhhhh.... no. That statement was supposed to make people go, hey, that reasoning is similar to why we think firestarter is scum, so maybe there is something there. If anything I was supporting the firestarter wagon. (The question was rhetorical in other words, not literal.)

Is guilt by association all you have?.

What/who are you referring to by 'there'?

I'm going by what I see. Are you saying we shouldn't be trying to look for connections?

Maybe I would be more sympathetic if you had actually read what I was talking about panda. You clearly have no idea what was going on when I made that post, yet you call it scummy. did you even read page 17? I suggest you do, and stop blatantly ignoring context.

Dybek had just dropped a vote on SSF in a similar fashion that Firestarter did, and IcemanE called him out on it.