Open 86 - Lovers Multiball (Game Over)

[destructor]

.::] Vote Count [::.

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OpposedForce (1)

- Adel

Not Voting (21) - sekinj, Raging Rabbit, OpposedForce, somestrangeflea, Harvey Pew, ThAdmiral, Alabaska J, pwnz, DarlaBlueEyes, charter, Cephrir, neko2086, cerebus3, farside22, armlx, WaltWishbone, Crazy, wolframnhart, Erratus Apathos, SleepyPanda, kloud1516

Twelve

votes to lynch.

[WaltWishbone]

So, that was a good lynch. I have an idea of his potential partners. dybecks defense of iceman was suspect in my opinion.

kloud1516, welcome to the game. Have you had a chance to read through the daytalk of dybeck and his lover? Any indication why he tried to defend iceman/firestarter? Can you paraphrase a bit of that conversation and post?

fos: kloud1516

I agree that the vote for DBE by Adel was odd; I don't see why you didn't expect people to join the bandwagon on Iceman/Orangepenguin. You made an excellent, detailed post/case; which was cemented in my mind when Firestarter tried to start a new wagon. You almost did the same thing to her that he did; fortunately the case that was built against them was too strong to fall apart. Adel, do you still feel your scumtell is more valuable than a mass claim at this point?

Also, Crazy, can you summarize and explain again how you thought your scumtell had any chance of working? I have read your posts regarding it several times and I don't get how you thought it could work.

[Adel]

Adel, do you still feel your scumtell is more valuable than a mass claim at this point?

I'm currently of the opinion that we need wider participation in this game right now. I think we should massclaim.

[Adel]

This lynch has all the hallmarks of a lazy lynch by a town that has closed its mind to other options.

If you're town and you feel this way, why not point out other options?

"I think he's scum" doesn't

mean

anything. It should be obvious. It's not really a reason because it should apply to everyone you want to lynch. But by having it as an entirely separate reason, you've drawn attention to that obvious fact, something which I think is the behavior of scum attacking a scum non-buddy.

This is REALLY desperate and contrived.

unvote, vote: somestrangeflea

Are you saying this is where we should be focused on? A vote you placed because of one post? After you voted him, you have directed no additional questions towards flea. This is better than the cases people have built on Fire or iceman?

I'm just saying that a good Day 1 is a day where feelers are put out in multiple directions, where pressure is applied to several players, where alliances are shown up and where the town keeps an open mind.

The test of this is easy. If you're right about your lynch choice, who will you attack tomorrow? If you don't have an answer, it's too early to end the day, because you haven't got enough information from today.

I strongly suspect that the answer from most people, if Fire/Ice are scum, will now be 'Let's attack Dybeck tomorrow' but meh. There's a vast majority of people in this town from whom you have no kind of reading. And that's because too much attention is being pointed in a single direction.

I've made this speech too many times before, and usually end up getting lynched for it but, hey, maybe that's my lot in life.

And yes, you're right, I've been lazy this game too. The time for this speech was probably not so late in the day when, of course, it just smacks of trying to derail a scum bandwagon.

where in the hell did this post come out of? HUGE wifom. Look at his other posts, there is nothing else like it.

soft defense of icemanE + big stinky WIFOM trap = a pretty good guess for who the last werewolf is.

I would rather lynch mafia today though.

[Alabaska J]

I have a gut read that RR is scum. Really bugging me, and so

vote: RR

until something better comes up.

[Adel]

I am male.

Please explain why Adel-scum would switch her vote from one townie to another right at the end of the day.

So that when the townie from the first wagon is lynched she looks like town.

care to update your theory?

[Alabaska J]

I am male.

Please explain why Adel-scum would switch her vote from one townie to another right at the end of the day.

So that when the townie from the first wagon is lynched she looks like town.

care to update your theory?

You are scum trying to get off your buddies wagon? IDK, my read on you is much more townish now that they flipped. Anyway, I'm too busy trying to find what is bugging me about RR.

[OpposedForce]

Adel, do you still feel your scumtell is more valuable than a mass claim at this point?

I'm currently of the opinion that we need wider participation in this game right now. I think we should massclaim.

I agree. There's been alot of content in day one and I think a massclaim now would defiantly help out to judge people better when their connected.

[Adel]

proposed: if twelve players post

massclaim

in bold letters, then we all massclaim.
Order will not matter, everyone should just pipe off.


~~~

massclaim

[Alabaska J]

I need to talk this over with the missus.

[Erratus Apathos]

Vote: Alabaska J

massclaim

yay

[OpposedForce]

I have a suggestion: Should we popcorn if we choose to massclaim? In the game I'm currently in (ongoing) it seemed to work well for a massclaim. Basically we just choose a person to claim their lovers then they choose another person to claim and so forth. Any takers?

[ThAdmiral]

We're one up - we don't need to massclaim just yet.

vote: dybeck

I'm happy to wipe out the werewolves myself.

[somestrangeflea]

Hey, turns out I was right!
Must... resist.. urge to rub... in... dybeck's... face...
Ahem.

I think we should massclaim.

No you don't. Or, rather, you shouldn't.

I'm totally against claiming during day 1 in this setup. I think

waiting until day 4 or day 5 would be better

. Has everyone read the set up? The game farside referenced was guaranteed to be over in two days. This game will take many days to finish, and I think a massclaim will eventually be a good idea, just

not for the first two or three days

.

Why is claiming bad?

because it would invalidate the secret scumtell I have that I won't announce until we have

three days

on the books without a lover-pair massclaim.

Emphasis mine.
What's with the change of heart?

I would rather lynch mafia today though.

I don't see any particular advantage to lynching Mafia rather than Werewolves today. Is there something I'm missing?

I have a suggestion: Should we popcorn if we choose to massclaim? In the game I'm currently in (ongoing) it seemed to work well for a massclaim. Basically we just choose a person to claim their lovers then they choose another person to claim and so forth. Any takers?

Order of claiming is irrelevent since no-one has an incentive to lie.

[SleepyPanda]

Vote: Cerebus

Massclaim

Ice and Cerebus have used a couple of the same arguments against Crazy which were strikingly similar. I'm quoting the entire posts for clarity's sake. The bolding is the main focus.

IcemanE is fitting with my townie read on him I have at the moment. Still tentative though.

I dont think crazy knows what the scum tell is.

If there even

is

one, this game is open, so town have no information the scum don't.

vote: crazy

PANDA, IT IS SOMETHING THAT ONLY TOWNIES WOULD KNOW!!! I can't say anything more without revealing what it is. Not all townies might catch it, but THERE IS NO CHANCE THAT SCUM WOULD KNOW WHAT IT IS.

This is straight BS. Townies are LESS informed than scum. How could they possibly have info that scum does not?

If you want me to, I'll reveal what I believe the "secret tell" is - it's hardly a secret, it's something both scum and town could easily figure out if they thought about it for a minute, so knowing the tell does not prove either way that you're town or scum - that's the main problem I have with crazy's crazy bull. Like I have said many many times, unless crazy recieved some sort of special information the rest of us missed, there's not a game-specific "secret tell". The one I'm thinking of could exist in any game of this type. Additionally, it's not an unbeatable, bulletproof tell - it's as valuable as any other, and just as breakable.

Crazy's defense of "keep me alive until at least day 3 so you can see my secret" is trash. Also, the fact that he unvoted me just a few short posts after he said:

I am about 90% sure Adel is town. I am about equally sure Iceman is scum.

is ridiculous.

I think it's worth losing farside (who from my evaluation hasn't done anything awesomely protown or horrifically scummy) to lynch Crazy, who is quite clearly scum.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I dont think crazy knows what the scum tell is. If there even is one, this game is open, so town have no information the scum don't.

That is incredibly not true.

The difference between townies and scum comes from the role PM they receive at the beginning of the game. As I said, unless the rest of the townies got some special message that I didn't, the tell is based on voting patterns.

Or, as you state, it's possible I am thinking of something different. Regardless, the tell I'm thinking of is only possible if the mass-claim doesn't happen for a few days, so I think what I've got in mind is accurate.

This post is crap. Those two paragraphs couldn't conflict with each other more. Wouldn't you think maybe I'm thinking of the same thing you mentioned in YOUR SECOND PARAGRAPH? And you're still voting me?

How can town think of that and not scum again?

Aww crap, I don't want to get lynched because that means that farside has to die, too, and that's not really fair to her.

And I don't want to get replaced, because then if the town wins then I don't win with them.

So the only option is thus to mega-lurk and post one-liners every 2 days.

See ya.

This is not what a member of the town says when they think they're going to be lynched.

Especially not when they're still 4 votes away from said lynch.

I'll amend my previous statement to say that if the

town

wants me to I'll talk about the scumtell.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Cerebus goes on to agree with Neko and votes Fire here:

unvote; vote: firestarter

First, I don't see how RR has done much different than I've done, or others. Clearly, Crazy has acted scummy. Logically, however, it doesn't add up for Crazy to be scum, all things considered (see my last posts for reasons). So why, then, would it be scummy to acknowledge somebody's scumminess but not vote them because the argument for them being town is much stronger? (whew)

Additionally, you're attacking RR for defending somebody who you believe is town when, looking at the votecount, it clearly wasn't popular to do so.

And, the quoting of Adel's call for other bandwagons while saying you're not trying to make a case... I'm also wondering what the point of your vote is, as you're sending very mixed messages.

I think me and neko are on the same wavelength. I was gonna say that!

unvote, vote: firestarter

Continuing to push a wagon when the wagon is proven false is pretty weird.

But this is his next post:

I see where IcemanE is coming from. I mean, what started the firestarter wagon?

He agrees with ice and expresses doubt of the Fire wagon, yet doesn't move his vote.

I read through, but I don't really have much to say.

I think the firestarter/IcemanE lynch is the right move.

Darla putting IcemanE at L-1 while conversation is still going strong is noted.

I see what erratus is saying about Alabaska.

Anything else I forgot about that people want me to comment on?

This was his last post before deadline hit. After with agreeing with iceman almost the entire game, he decides that his lynch is the right move.

[Cephrir]

Reread of Ice/Fire makes dybeck slightly scummier IMO.
Indifferent on the massclaim.

[Cephrir]

In other news, I made post 673 without noticing the lynch post.

[Raging Rabbit]

Did a quick skim of the game, couple of things:

Crazy wrote:
Iceman, the following quotes show that you have no idea what we're talking about.

IcemanE wrote:
Yes to what adel implied. I would have preferred to keep it less obvious by sort of dancing around it a bit more, but it should work regardless.


IcemanE wrote:
Right - it's possible that from other similar games, she knows the tell, meaning she could be scum this game too.


You are pretending to see this scum-tell that Adel mentioned. I don't believe town would do that.

Unvote, Vote IcemanE


Can you explain why you go from saying Adel shouldn't have brought up anything to calling her possible scum for the tell then voting crazy for saying he knows what the claim is? Was he the only one to say such a thing? You seem in your own post to indicate you know what it means. I think your vote is hypocritical.

Why would anyone

ever

say that about a lover, and in game rather than DT to top? I really want to hear Farside explain what exactly she was thinking about, 'cause the only explanation I can think of is scum distancing.

About the secret scumtell - Adel brought it up, the only ones who claimed to pick up on it were IceScum and Crazy, who was dead wrong. I'm starting to think Adel made it up, especially cosidering how she recently forgot all about it and started encouraging a mass claim.

FOS: Adel

, the way she tried to use her influence to push the town to DBE at the last minute is scummy as well, especially since she said she's gonna be quiet and let people think for themselves a few posts before that. I think the massclaim should wait until Adel explains what exactly she was on about with the tell.

Also, I think ThAdmiral is intentionally flying under the radar. IGMEOY.

[charter]

no massclaim

[neko2086]

Also, I think ThAdmiral is intentionally flying under the radar. IGMEOY.

Also, he is not paying attention, as he voted dybeck who is no longer with us.


I don't think we need a massclaim yet. I think Adel is just trying to see how many people she can get to follow her. Yesterday mostly everybody agreed that waiting to massclaim for a few days was the best plan, now suddenly Adel changes her mind and there's a wave of massclaim requests.

[SleepyPanda]

Also, I think ThAdmiral is intentionally flying under the radar. IGMEOY.

Also, he is not paying attention, as he voted dybeck who is no longer with us.


I don't think we need a massclaim yet. I think Adel is just trying to see how many people she can get to follow her. Yesterday mostly everybody agreed that waiting to massclaim for a few days was the best plan, now suddenly Adel changes her mind and there's a wave of massclaim requests.

So you don't want to massclaim just to not go along with Adel? You were FOR massclaiming at the start of Day 1. I assumed you switched to against because of Adel's scumtell which she said would be better after a few days. Do you believe she doesn't have a scumtell anymore? What is your reason now for not wanting to massclaim?

[Crazy]

massclaim

Vote: Charter

for now.

1 scum lover pair down, 3 to go.

And...

HAHA I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!

[Crazy]

Also, Crazy, can you summarize and explain again how you thought your scumtell had any chance of working? I have read your posts regarding it several times and I don't get how you thought it could work.

Okay, here it goes:

I didn't know that the daytalk thingies were on the front page. Thus, I didn't know that scum had daytalk, too. So I was planning on waiting for a while and then having everyone mass-post their daytalk. We lynch the people that have less believable daytalk.

[charter]

Crazy, pretty sure daytalk is going to be irrelevant now. After pointing out how iceman's was obviously not pro-town, scum are going to put more effort into forging it.

Also, is there any scenario where I'm not scum in your head? And what were the reasons you were suspicious of me again?

Need to discuss with my lover before voting.

[SleepyPanda]

Also, Crazy, can you summarize and explain again how you thought your scumtell had any chance of working? I have read your posts regarding it several times and I don't get how you thought it could work.

Okay, here it goes:

I didn't know that the daytalk thingies were on the front page. Thus, I didn't know that scum had daytalk, too. So I was planning on waiting for a while and then having everyone mass-post their daytalk. We lynch the people that have less believable daytalk.

It still makes no sense to me why you'd come up with that assumption.

Crazy, pretty sure daytalk is going to be irrelevant now. After pointing out how iceman's was obviously not pro-town, scum are going to put more effort into forging it.

Also, is there any scenario where I'm not scum in your head? And what were the reasons you were suspicious of me again?

Need to discuss with my lover before voting.

I'd like to hear your case on SSF btw. Yesterday, you said you were willing to go for his lynch if possible. The only time you mention him is when you ask for DBE's reread and that you think he's scum.