Mini 627 - Riverworld Smalltown - Over!!!


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Post Post #775 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:58 am

Post by shaft.ed »

M4yhem wrote:Since Hermit was jailblocked, does that make him suspect number one?
While your point is valid, TheHermit should be of no lynching concern to the town. He is essentially dead as the SK must kill him tonight or be outed tommorow. Since we know TheHermit is not the SK as he was jailed and the SK's kill went through, we don't have to worry too much about faked results.

That said, jailing him again may not be a terrible idea, Nab can pick up Pug's ability, then the autocatching of the SK can go through on Night 3 instead. And if there is in fact no mafia kill for the second consecutive night it's pretty good evidence that TheHermit is mafia. Downside is that we choreograph the Jailkeep, lose the investigative power of jailing someone else (pretty big deal with one of each scum left), and lose the threat of protection on all other players.

I was also thinking about Rishi. I think it quite unlikely that he is mafia. The ideal play for a Motivator/Watcher scumteam is for the motivator to target the Watcher (highly plausible) and then for the Watcher to kill a player having the Motivator claimed to target them. This only breaks down if you get caught by the Tracker, but killing the Tracker solves that problem rather easily. Also scum motivating an investigative role like a Tracker is much less likely than a protective role like a JailKeep IMHO.
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Post Post #776 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:05 am

Post by Claus »

post 94

!!!!!!!!!!!

????????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVVmAG0RXmo
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Post Post #777 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:09 am

Post by iamausername »

Twomz wrote:That being said, jailkeeper targeting king Night 1 is probably a given.
I assume this is what you're referring to, Claus?
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Post Post #778 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:16 am

Post by Claus »

Yes.

Important??
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Post Post #779 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:21 am

Post by iamausername »

It's interesting. But if Twomz was so sure that King would be jailed, the mafia wouldn't have attempted to kill him OR sent him to make the kill, and clearly one or the other did happen, so I have to assume that later discussions persuaded Twomz that it wasn't such a certainty.
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Post Post #780 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:23 am

Post by Claus »

"OR" <-- only?
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Post Post #781 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:31 am

Post by shaft.ed »

I agree with IAUN that the statement cuts both ways. If they counted on him being jailed it's unlikely they'd have used him to kill. On the other hand that was before one of their mates got lynched and they were stuck with a Watcher who would have to fakeclaim or a player with no night action making the kill. The latter is certainly more attractive.

Claus do you agree with this assessment?
shaft.ed wrote:While your point is valid, TheHermit should be of no lynching concern to the town. He is essentially dead as the SK must kill him tonight or be outed tommorow. Since we know TheHermit is not the SK as he was jailed and the SK's kill went through, we don't have to worry too much about faked results.
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Post Post #782 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:53 am

Post by Claus »

Yup.

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Post Post #783 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:49 pm

Post by Alabaska J »

@shaft.ed: It is hard for me to get a read on Claus' thoughts about Megatron/iamausername because of his PR. My whole reading of CLaus is skewed and I can't say with certainty one way or the other.
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Post Post #784 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:27 pm

Post by shaft.ed »

OK before I get into pure scumhunting I wanted one more post where I run down mathematical and night action based reasons for excluding (or leaning less intensely on ) certain players today.

will not lynch:

TheHermit/TSPN
-He is dead tonight without protection. If IAUN wants to mess with the SK by using his Jailkeep that's fine by me, but I see no reason for the town to pursue his lynch at this point as TheHermit's death is assured tonight and we'd be clearly wasting a lynch if we use it on TheHermit/TSPN.

should not lynch:

Rishi
-Given Rishi's night action is confirmed he clearly was not the mafia "killer" last night. This gives him ~1/3rd less chance of being scum than any other player (correct my math if wrong). Also as stated above a Rishi/Twomz scumpair targeting the Tracker is really not an ideal situation. I think of the confirmed night action players he is most likely not mafia.
iamusername
-Unless mafia are playing shenanigans with their night kills, iamusername is not mafia. Since, he had no way of predicting Twomz would turn up dead, it would be very unlikely IAUN would no-kill, because doing such only proves him to not be mafia if Twomz turns up dead. Thus I find it only possible that IAUN is mafia if the kill was somehow not submitted. This is highly unlikely as IAUN was tracked by CyberBob to his night choice. As such IAUN is 50% less likely than any other player to be scum, and I don't think a good lynch.

low probability lynch:

armlx
-armlx has a confirmed night action. Thus he is ~1/3rd less likely to be scum than an "average" player. However, him being a vig, I cannot see armlxscum not using his night action. Thus I weigh this less than Rishi's confirmed night action. However, I do not think an armlx lynch should be considered today.

OK so who should we be considering. Let's look back quickly at the lynching vote count:
curiouskarmadog wrote:Pug89 - 7 (M4yhem, Rishi, Twomz, Claus, Alabaska J, armlx)
Alabaska J - 5 (NabakovNabakovob, shafted, iamausername, Pug89, Cyberbob)

Not Voting: TheHermit
We see Twomz was bus'ing. I don't think Mayhem would be double bus'ing his partner, so I don't suspect him for mafia at this juncture. Claus has been fairly pro-town thus far and I do not suspect at this juncture. I'm not a fan of Alabaska, and it is possible he went for a bus with Twomz since his only lynch was the only other viable option. Rishi and armlx are a part of the less likely group. So that leaves only Alabaska amongst the Pug voters.

On the other wagon there is me, Nab and CyberBob. I've already admitted there are a list of examples where I have defended both dead scum. I completely understand that I am a viable lynch today from an outside viewpoint. I've already previously stated that I don't like CyberBob's night actions. Between a Tracker and a Watcher it is more likely that the Tracker would make the NK, since he can fake claim an investigation as long as he doesn't have to claim first. I'm really not liking his tracking of armlx, as it was posted for the world to see, and his target was advertised before the night even began. I'm also not liking Nab's excuse for not picking up Pug's role last night. It seems after the public diminishment of the Inventor's utility, Nab had an excuse not to pick up the role, and thus the watcher would not have to fakeclaim. However, many players made the same mistake so I'm not sure this holds.

Anyway I think the lynch today should be between me, Alabaska, NabNab and CyberBob. I'm not saying we should only focus on these players, but I think this is where we should end up at days end.
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Post Post #785 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:25 pm

Post by Alabaska J »

Happy scumday shaft.ed, and great post.

I support (obviously) a NabNab lynch. However, I am not immovable, and could see myself voting for shaft.ed based on day one stuff (although he has acted very pro-town day two). My gut tells me Cyberbob is town for some reason, so I would need a better case than the on I would need against shaft.ed to sway me.
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Post Post #786 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:42 pm

Post by Cyberbob »

shaft.ed wrote:Between a Tracker and a Watcher it is more likely that the Tracker would make the NK, since he can fake claim an investigation as long as he doesn't have to claim first.
Your suspicions are based on factors that are beyond my control. No matter what I do, if I track someone whose claim comes before mine when the dice are rolled I'm under suspicion?

Doesn't seem very logical to me. You're reaching
heavily
- you make the assumption that the scum submitted a kill on TheHermit when nobody in their right mind would do so. You're also ignoring the possibility that the scum didn't even submit a kill in order to come up innocently in case of a track/watch - or hell, even that they might have submitted it in the form of Alabaska's poisoning.
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Post Post #787 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:54 pm

Post by Claus »

784 ---> SK?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVVmAG0RXmo
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Post Post #788 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:08 pm

Post by Alabaska J »

Claus wrote:784 ---> SK?
I can see that.
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Post Post #789 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:10 pm

Post by Cyberbob »

Claus, are you suggesting shaft.ed is the SK or that he should have taken its existence into account in his analysis?
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Post Post #790 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:13 pm

Post by Claus »

The Second.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVVmAG0RXmo
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Post Post #791 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:39 pm

Post by shaft.ed »

Claus wrote:The Second.
I understand that, but at this point in the game, we have a much better chance of catching the other mafia member.

CyberBob, I'm not saying you're scummy because you could parrot already claimed targets. In fact both of your tracking results were on people who claimed after you. I'm simply pointing out that it's much harder to fake a watching claim than a tracking claim, which is relevant. It's also much harder to fake a watching claim than a hiding claim, so you can point that line back to me if you like.

Also the mafia NK would not be in the "form" of poisoning. If armlx was mafia, the poisoning kill is on top of their regular night kill.

And I'm not reaching anywhere on TheHermit. My analysis is simply that regardless of TheHermit's alignment, the SK MUST kill him tonight. So the town does not have to waste time or a lynch deciding if he was the target or the attempted perpetrator or the mafia's NK attempt. The only assumption I make regarding the scum actually having submitted a NK is that iamusername is town. Since he submitted an action, I think it's reasonable to assume that if he were mafia then there would have been a NK submission.
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Post Post #792 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:00 pm

Post by Cyberbob »

shaft.ed wrote:CyberBob, I'm not saying you're scummy because you could parrot already claimed targets. In fact both of your tracking results were on people who claimed after you. I'm simply pointing out that it's much harder to fake a watching claim than a tracking claim, which is relevant. It's also much harder to fake a watching claim than a hiding claim, so you can point that line back to me if you like.
I see. It would have been nice of you to be more clear in what you were saying, because your last post strongly looked like you were including this as part of the reason why you think I'm even vaguely scummy.
shaft.ed wrote:Also the mafia NK would not be in the "form" of poisoning. If armlx was mafia, the poisoning kill is on top of their regular night kill.
I'm saying that if armlx was mafia they could have used his poison in lieu of their regular kill - it gets the same job done without risking suspicion.
shaft.ed wrote:And I'm not reaching anywhere on TheHermit. My analysis is simply that regardless of TheHermit's alignment, the SK MUST kill him tonight.
And how would the SK plan on achieving that, given that TheHermit is basically guaranteed protection (if iamausername is the SK, he's dead either way)?

Also, on that note I just remembered that TheHermit won't be able to post any more due to an electrical storm killing his power supply (he said so on the forum we originate from). I think it's definitely in the town's best interest to get him replaced before today's end.

Mod: requesting replacement for TheHermit

shaft.ed wrote:The only assumption I make regarding the scum actually having submitted a NK is that iamusername is town. Since he submitted an action, I think it's reasonable to assume that if he were mafia then there would have been a NK submission.
Why? If TheHermit had been killed by the SK when he was supposed to be protecting him there's no way he would have survived today. I think it far more likely that if he was mafia there
wouldn't
have been a submission.
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Post Post #793 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:14 pm

Post by iamausername »

Cyberbob wrote:Also, on that note I just remembered that TheHermit won't be able to post any more due to an electrical storm killing his power supply (he said so on the forum we originate from). I think it's definitely in the town's best interest to get him replaced before today's end.

Mod: requesting replacement for TheHermit
You're a bit behind the times there.
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Post Post #794 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:14 pm

Post by shaft.ed »

Cyberbob wrote:Why? If TheHermit had been killed by the SK when he was supposed to be protecting him there's no way he would have survived today. I think it far more likely that if he was mafia there wouldn't have been a submission.
I thought you tracked IAUN to TheHermit last night.
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Post Post #795 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:19 pm

Post by Alabaska J »

shaft.ed wrote:
Cyberbob wrote:Why? If TheHermit had been killed by the SK when he was supposed to be protecting him there's no way he would have survived today. I think it far more likely that if he was mafia there wouldn't have been a submission.
I thought you tracked IAUN to TheHermit last night.
I don't understand either of the above posts. I thought I did, but now I'm not sure. Can you guys clarify?

Also, shaft.ed is giving of SK vibes to me more than scum vibes atm.
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Post Post #796 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:45 pm

Post by Cyberbob »

shaft.ed wrote:
Cyberbob wrote:Why? If TheHermit had been killed by the SK when he was supposed to be protecting him there's no way he would have survived today. I think it far more likely that if he was mafia there wouldn't have been a submission.
I thought you tracked IAUN to TheHermit last night.
I did, but his action in no way confirms him as town.
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Post Post #797 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:50 pm

Post by Alabaska J »

Cyberbob wrote:
shaft.ed wrote:
Cyberbob wrote:Why? If TheHermit had been killed by the SK when he was supposed to be protecting him there's no way he would have survived today. I think it far more likely that if he was mafia there wouldn't have been a submission.
I thought you tracked IAUN to TheHermit last night.
I did, but his action in no way confirms him as town.
How so?
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Post Post #798 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:52 pm

Post by Cyberbob »

If TheHermit had died when he was supposed to be protecting him (an action supported by the rest of the town no less), do you think he would have survived today?
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Post Post #799 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:53 pm

Post by Alabaska J »

Cyberbob wrote:If TheHermit had died when he was supposed to be protecting him (an action supported by the rest of the town no less), do you think he would have survived today?
I think he would have just killed elsewhere.
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