Mini 627 - Riverworld Smalltown - Over!!!

[Alabaska J]

woah didn't mean to do that

[Alabaska J]

I don't like the Megatron wagon. Seeing how nolynch is the anathema of many players' existence almost everywhere else on the site day one, I can see why he would say what he would say.

Any player who's been paying attention would know better than to give the knee-jerk reaction.

Not really. Seeing on how early the reaction came, I think it is knee-jerk.

Also, I like how Alabaska has been opposed to the last two wagons but continues to vote shaft.ed for bafflingly weak reasons.

Thus begins his tunnel-vision on me. First of all, as I pointed out in response to this post, this is just wrong. Second of all, the megatron wagon was started for what I would call bafflingly weak reasons, as you just seem to jump on him. NOTE: megatron/iamausername is the jailer and I can see scum trying to form a case on the jailer in any way possible and therefore exaggerating mistakes.

FoS: NabakovNabakov

Nabnab I was indifferent to the TheHermit wagon before, but not against it. I didn't understand the Megatron wagon as it looked even weaker than my vote on shaft.ed (which, admittedly,

was

weak). Your post about me seems almost unfair.

Ok fine, indifference is not the same thing as opposition (I just lumped the two together for economy of style), but by publicly stating your indifference to the wagon you can contribute to its losing momentum.

No comment about armlx's noted indifference, eh? And why does an early wagon need momentum that badly? It's and

early wagon

; if it dies, it dies.

And what's not to understand about Megatron? He hasn't posted game content the entire day, and even his technical content has been kind of sketchy. He doesn't want a No Lynch under the condition of discussion, but he doesn't create discussion. Doesn't that inconsistency at least deserve some pressure?

He doesn't need to create discussion though; all he said was that a nolynch at the time would be bad because we hadn't thoroughly discussed our options. He wasn't committing himself to anything here, he just made an observation. The way NabNab made such a big deal out of that comment, especially it being from the JK early on, just rubs me the wrong way.

...dude, once again, it wasn't a tantrum, what is it with you?

I'm just saying it how it is. Hell, I knew when I picked the role that it paints a huge target on my back.

Is there anybody you are suspicious of? Why?
How do you feel about the various "wagons"/singular votes that are going around?

there's only so much you can get from random wagons. No one's gotten twitchy or sputtery yet, and although there were a few real flimsy votes, I tend to have a higher threshold for flimsy votes on day 1, unless they end up getting someone lynched.

Couple of things in my notes so far, I'll go through it some time today, have to leave soon.

So you're not suspicious of

anybody

?

It was pretty early; he just was trying to say no one had done anything that jumped out at him yet. Overreacting here IMO.

Alabaska's alignment is something we should determine... but if he is town, what is the point in destroying his endgame power? Same goes with Winter. Both roles would be awesome if they were town and ridiculously bad endgame if they were scum. And unlike other roles in the game, they have no ability to "check" to make sure they're not lying or faking.

And as long as alabaska is around, shaft.ed has a good place to hide (although, the point is moot of shaft.ed is scum... /shrug).

We really really don't need a discussion like this. Pick a role in the game, and you could say "Well... it would be a good thing if they were town but a bad thing if they were scum". The only criteria that's going to get us through the game is "have they been scummy?"

This sorta sounds like coaching to me as in "I'm trying to get these important roles lynched please don't bring up role discussion as that only hurts my argument" but that feels like a bit of a stretch at the same time. However, if NabNab is scum, this is how I would interpret this interaction with Twomz-scum.

NabakovNabakovob was pushing a bad wagon, I'd say he's scummy but not as scummy as pug.

Wait, so I'm scummy for pushing Megatron because it was a "bad wagon" when you can't adequately explain what was bad about it:

But I don't agree with him about Megatron/iamausername. Did a reread of just this poster and he strikes me as town. I don't agree that his comment about being nightkilled was AtoE; in fact, I'd say that the very suggestion is laughable.

Right...

Alabaska has become even more clumsy in trying to be careful. Lynch/vig sounds like a good idea.

Vote: Alabaska J

Attacks M4yhem and then votes me…odd. Evidence for that vote would've been nice, but more likely he is scum wanting to get read of the man with two lives to waste time for the town/eliminate my prominence in endgame.

Why does the amount of agreement concern you?

Because if he's mafia, he should have scumbuddies disagreing/diverting attention away from him.

Alabaska is an easy bus. It would take a heluvalotta resolve and effort from the town to actually kill him, so the best response to his being suspected is ambivalence or bemoaning how difficult/costly it will be to kill him(and we're seeing some of each).


Rereading, it's still my opinion that it is the town's repsonsibility to kill Alabaska ASAP, so my vote stays where it is. There's no sense in entrusting to night-actions something we have the ability to do in the open.

In an emergency situation, I would likely go to Pug. Plain-sight lurking, opportunistic, L-2, OMGUS vote on TheHermit, yadda yadda yadda.

I really don't understand why it is the town's duty to kill me off ASAP. He is ignoring all the benefits of me being town over and over and instead wants to waste time and resources killing me instead. Notices how he says he will commit to voting (read: bus) Pug at the last minute, something I have seen scum do a lot when their buddies are on the chopping block.

Responsibility is a heavy thing, and it's something this town shirks every time they say "but killing Alabaska would tie up a lot of actions." If we decide as a town that Alabaska is likely to be scum (and I'd be willing to have

that

discussion any day), but we aren't willing to do what it takes to kill him when the town is at full strength, what does that say about our liklihood of killing him in the future? We all have to face up to the distinct possiblity that the situation may be worse than we thought. We have to face up to the possibility that we might have to risk more than we thought to win this. I know I'm gambling by asking you to gamble, but I think that shows more about my confidence than about my allignment.

If anybody has any questions, my door is always open.

Tunneling on me trying to force my death. Notice he's never really built a case on me up to this point and actually said stronger things about Pugscum. Yet he makes it such a big deal that the town needs to kill me or else I will apparently run rampant pwning everyone in endgame. He makes such a big deal about me without much basis at all. His continued exaggeration of cases on people that it would be anti-town to lynch without a very strong case (megatron/iamausername is the jailer; I give no info upon lynch) is just so scummy to me. I can't wait until the end anymore.

vote: NabakovNabakov

.

If anybody has any questions, my door is always open.

Why are you voting me now?

Because I think you are scum and that it is in the town's best interests to lynch you today. I've already stated my support for the Pug wagon (before it went L-1 btw), but I think you are more likely to be scum

and

we have to get down to the business of killing you ASAP.

I know it probably appears as if I'm hiding my vote from the Pug wagon or trying to distract from it, but at this point, that wagon is at L-1, and lending any support to it would shut down discussion. I figured this wouldn't be the best thing to do considering how intent Hermit seemed to be in exploring me and how intent I am in hearing your case on me, and I suspect voting anybody else would elicit a similar accusations of hiding.

I can understand what he's saying about Pug at L-1, but I feel he procrastinated with his vote purposefully to put himself in this situation. Also, he doesn't give any reasons

again

for wanting to lynch me; just that he thinks I'm scum and that the town needs to lynch me ASAP.

Ok, so 12 hours late isn't

that

bad.

I'm not as convinced that keeping Pug alive will be so rosy; it leaves the door open for massive shenanigans if he's scum. Scenario that occured to me seconds after the idea was floated: Pugscum lives, gifts a buddy with NK-immune, says he gave buddy cop. Buddy comes up with a false scumhit, we mislynch. By the time anybody has a chance to do anything, it's D4 and we'd be in perilous LyLo or have lost. Even if it's played totally legit, we still won't have our confimed innocent until D3. The benefit is not as huge as others are making it out to be, and the danger is much more dangerous. (This is all assuming Pug is scum, of course)

I honestly have zero time to make a case on Alabaska right now (eat, run, work). My sincere apologies.

This post is the only one that gives me pause. He gives some pretty damning evidence against Pug here but it could just be NabScum seeing the writing on the wall and helping out with a bus to look town. Also, he finally admits to not having a case on me even though he has preached my lynch as the most important thing we could do.

The recent inventor shenanigans could be genuine or maybe he thought he could pick up TheHermit's role instead and when that didn't happen he didn't get anyone. If he is scum Twomz' role is useless so he wouldn't pick that up.

Sorry about posting the end there I hit submit on the page with just that part and not the whole thing.

[shaft.ed]

NOTE: megatron/iamausername is the jailer and I can see scum trying to form a case on the jailer in any way possible and therefore exaggerating mistakes.

Do you feel Claus had genuine motives for his Megatron push?

I agree with much of Alabaska's assessment.

Rereading, it's still my opinion that it is the town's repsonsibility to kill Alabaska ASAP, so my vote stays where it is. There's no sense in entrusting to night-actions something we have the ability to do in the open.

Using the lynch took priority over having armlx use his poison?

In an emergency situation, I would likely go to Pug. Plain-sight lurking, opportunistic, L-2, OMGUS vote on TheHermit, yadda yadda yadda.

This seems like a decent enough laundry list to vote for someone. Why do you have an existing case on Pug, but "never get around" to making one on Alabaska, yet still land your vote on him?

[armlx]

A quick read says the above looks decent, but I need a better read to see if Shaft.ed is better or not. I'm now convinced that one of Shaft/NN was Pug's buddy though.

[M4yhem]

Do you think Cyber is that scummy relative to Shaft/NN that the loss of an info role right now is worth it? I realize this is bringing roles into the issue, but just saying.

Based on gut feeling, yeah.

I already said I won't dely lynching anyone because of thier role.

I will have a proper case once I reread pug/twomz and shafted/cyberbob/NabNab/thehermit tomorrow.

Your case on NabNab looks pretty good, we'll see what he says in response.

[Cyberbob]

Okay, so my reason not to vote for Cyberbob is gone.

Is it?

Also,

Basically what I'm saying is

Scenario 1
Step 1) Mod waits for ALL actions to come in
Step 2) Sends out Motivation notice
Step 3) Motivation choice made and applied

Scenario 2
Step 1) Mod receives motivation notice and passes it on immediately
Step 2) Motivatee makes choices concious of having two abilities
Step 3) Mod waits for all actions to come in and resolves the night phase


CyberBob could you clarify which of the above seemed to happen?

Scenario 1.

[NabakovNabakov]

In regards to my early-game jabs at Hermit/megatron, they were just that, me latching on to something that wasn't role discussion (or in the case of megatron, finding nothing that wasn't role discussion) and pushing/prodding. If I was really interested in getting Hermit or Megatron lynched because their roles were threatening, why didn't I join the later Hermit wagon? Why did I leave Metagron/Username once username replaced and began posting content? You really have to put my earlier posts in the context of our sluggish first week.

Superficially, it might appear that I stated more of a case on Pug than I did on Alabaska, but in the case of Pug I was merely regurgitating what others had put together. In composing a case on Alabaska, I wanted to do a PBPA like Alabaska just did on me, but I didn't/don't have enough RL time to do it up right.

Using the lynch took priority over having armlx use his poison?

Using the lynch would have to compliment armlx using his poison.

Also, the post which gave Alabaska pause also has my warped timelines.

[armlx]

Your case on NabNab looks pretty good, we'll see what he says in response.

By mine, you mean Alabaska's.

Based on gut feeling, yeah.

I'm awaiting further elaboration on the subject. Gut is a lame reason.

[Claus]

Re-read Scum:

FoS: Shaft.ed, Iamausername ... ... cyberbob

Un-FoS: TheHermit, ... ... W!nter

[armlx]

How is IAUN possible scum? He could be the SK, but as could everyone pretty much right now.

[armlx]

EBWODP: Replace possible with likely above.

[Rishi]

At Gen Con, and I need to get going to an event soon, so can't post more. I will have something substantive Monday-ish.

But I would like to see less setup discussion and more scumhunting. I think Claus is doiing it, but can only say so much. Someone should look for connections between Pug, Twomz and others. I'll do this Monday if no one else does.

[M4yhem]

Here you go Rishi; I've been rereading the scum and these are all the possible connections I could find:

Pug hasn't contributed a whole lot. I'm also concerned about how freely he asked for advice on how to use his night action. Sounds like, "Hey guys, what would be the most townie thing for me to do?"

Or I don't want to squander my abilities since they are only one-shots and I wanted other opinions. I haven't made a decision yet. I will keep the suggestions in mind but I'm ultimately going to make my own decision. I feel this is an extremely weak excuse. I don't like it that you are discouraging discussion of night actions. Obviously the final decision shouldn't be posted in thread, but discussion could help the town.

Vote: TheHermit

This

could

be distancing but it probably clears the Hermit.

I did a reread of these player's post in isolation:
Claus: Not much to go on here because of the post restriction, but he does show some criticism of TheHermit, which I don’t disagree with.

Cyberbob: I don’t like his early post about preferring quick wagons to the random voting stage. He does make a point of differentiating between quick wagons to quick lynches but one could easily lead to the other. Also, that early in the game any wagon is likely going to be based on very little.

Twomz: Not much to comment on. He did bring up the possibility of a NL, which normally I would be against, but this game is a little different than most games.

Winter:

On preview: it seems that you, armlx, are the only one to attack my random vote of no lynch. Despite not offering a random vote yourself, or making a move to imply that you believed we were out of, or never began a random voting stage.

I actually think a random vote of no lynch is strange, I don’t think I’ve seen that before. I don’t think it’s necessarily scummy but definitely strange.

He's very wishy washy here so it's hard to read much into it but he is vaguely critical of both my predessecor and Bob. Town points for Bob here, I guess.
Slightly supportive of Claus and notice how he includes his buddy and gives him a neutral read.

I reread Megatron. He's really indecisive when asked directly if he found anyone suspicious and most of his post have to do with game mechanics and not about his suspicions. However, iamausername seems to be doing much better in this regard.

This looks like a case against iamausername when you first read it but actually it's an extremely weak defense. On that basis

Fos: iamausername

.

Pug's vote for Alabaska at the end is I think, a neutral read- lynching him wouldn't kill Alabaska so Pug might have bussed a buddy. Or not.

Twonz:

In other words,

unvote, vote: Megatron

I agree w/ Nabakov.

I'm not sure what this means. We know Twonz was not afraid to vote for his buddies and this was early in the day...but he could just be taking advantage of a townie.

And as long as alabaska is around, shaft.ed has a good place to hide (although, the point is moot of shaft.ed is scum... /shrug).

Possible concern for shaft.ed? Or just idle talk?

How about Alabaska- is he on the same side as you, do you think?

Not sure, ask me again tomorrow, I'll probably have a better idea then.

Deliberate Wifom.

What about Claus? On a scale of one to crispy how protown is he?

Claus is trying to post content beyond his restriction enough that I think he is relatively protown right now. Then again, it could be a ploy... but I doubt it. On a scale of 1 - 10, 10 being most protown, I'd put him at a 7.5-8.

Does this implicate Claus? It’s possible but since I lean towards town for Claus I’d say it’s more likely that Twomz was just budding up to Claus/echoing what others had said.

[shaft.ed]

Mayhem, IAUN is very unlikely mafia because he caused the No Kill last night (unless mafia just missed the deadline I guess, but it was a REALLY long night deadline).

Also in regards to Twomz's statement towards me, I do agree it looks effusive. But if I recall correctly this is after I had said Twomz's play fit his town meta and not his scum meta. I'm pretty sure he was trying to buddy up to me with that comment. Might also have been trying to protect Alabaska.

[curiouskarmadog]

TheSweatpantsNinja replaces TheHermit...thanks!

[Claus]

763... duh!

unfos: iamausername

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I've only read day 2.

But if I understand the plan correctly:

Nab sends me a one-shot NK immunity, which I then use, and investigate Twomz, ensuring that the SK is nabbed. Correct?

[armlx]

This could be distancing but it probably clears the Hermit.

It was pretty late on the wagon, so the odds of it being bussing are higher.

[Claus]

mfos: TSN

1.Scumhunt 2.Plan

[armlx]

Nab sends me a one-shot NK immunity, which I then use, and investigate Twomz, ensuring that the SK is nabbed. Correct?

Except Nab doesn't have the inventor ability, so that is not the plan.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

1.Scumhunt 2.Plan

I disagree with this assertion.

Especially as I've only read the part where we talk about the plan, not the part where we lynch the scum day 1.

[M4yhem]

I know a promised a case on Bob but I'm not in the mood for proper analysis today.

Instead, two questions:

If Twomz was the one chosen to do the killing, would that mean the kill wouldn't go through if he died?

Since Hermit was jailblocked, does that make him suspect number one?

[curiouskarmadog]

Official Vote Count

(Page 31, Day 2)

Cyberbob

- 2 (M4yhem)

shafted

- 1 (armlx)

NabakovNabakovob

- 1 (Alabaska J)

Not Voting:

TheSweatpantsNinja, Rishi, Claus, NabakovNabakovob, shafted, iamausername, Cyberbob

Note: Deadline 09/08 2:00pm EST. With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch, 5 is a no lynch

[Cyberbob]

I know a promised a case on Bob but I'm not in the mood for proper analysis today.

That's cool, I'm too tired to properly rebut.

If Twomz was the one chosen to do the killing, would that mean the kill wouldn't go through if he died?

That depends on how CKD is handling action priorities.

Normally

, though, from what I've seen and experienced kills are handled simultaneously. Which would mean a kill attempted by Twomz would go through.

Since Hermit was jailblocked, does that make him suspect number one?

Maaaaaaybe, though this is a path heavily entangled with WIFOM - it all depends on how likely you think the scum would be to risk being tracked/watched making a kill as opposed to using their regular power.

[iamausername]

If Twomz was the one chosen to do the killing, would that mean the kill wouldn't go through if he died?

Kills still go through when the killer dies that night. At least, I've never seen a game where this wasn't the case.

Since Hermit was jailblocked, does that make him suspect number one?

No, because jailkeep is also a protect, and he's quite likely to have been the target of the mafia kill due to his role. He's certainly

a

suspect though, yes.

Gonna try to find the time to get a reread and proper analysis in today, but I might not succeed. Will certainly have one for you by Monday, though.