Mini #582: Meta Mafia Mini! GAME OVER!

[the silent speaker]

Vote Count:

The Fonz: 1 (DestroyerOfTheSky)

Not voting, but can

: TheSweatpantsNinja, The Fonz, EmpTyger, KingPin, Stoofer

Day 3 is now DEADLINED for Tuesday, August 19, 11:59 PM EDT.

[KingPin]

Definition of a Lurker. One who contributes as little as possible OR one who posts in other games and does not post in the game where he is being considered for a lynch that day.

Since

The Fonz's

last post in this game he has posted in:
Mini 616: 11 times
Minvitational 8: 1 time
Mini 646: 6 times
Pikman: 9 times
Open 81: 1 time
a few posts in other non-game related threads

[EmpTyger]

Vote: Johoohno

I'm really sorry all. I'm reread D1, skimmed D2, but I have not had the time to finish the type of reread I’d like, or to edit notes into anything helpful. I will try to do what I can between now and Sunday, but I really cannot promise anything. Quickly-

Stoofer: I’m having a hard time finding anything Stoofer has doing that is helpful or protown. Not just D1- afterwards too. Part of me really just wants to vote him today instead.

DotS: Utterly detest his play. And yet he could not be more town.

TSN: Solid play.

KingPin: Don’t see this as possible.

Fonz: I suppose maybe if Stoofer is innocent, then his switching from Primate to Stoofer D1 is less meaningful, since he’s unvoting one innocent to go to another. And then if Johoohno is guilty, Fonz’s trying to switch the early D2 focus from Johoohno to Stoofer is bad. Or there is the simple fact that Fonz-Stoofer-mathcam have had the 3 odd claims. And the lurking while being active elsewhere. But those are a lot of maybes. I’m mentioning since Fonz is the only other one who even approaches possibility. I’m really feeling a Johoohno-Stoofer Occam’s Razor here.

[Johoohno]

@Emptyger: My night choices has always been detectable (due to meddling with voteblockers and votedoublers), so I really don't udenrstand why you vote me since I can't have done any nightkillings?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Because obviously if you are mafia with a role, you would have other mafia without roles do the killing, or you can kill and utilize your power. That's a really weak response.

Vote johoohno.

[KingPin]

I really want to hear what The Fonz has to say.

I have both Fonz and Stoof ahead of Jo on the scum-o-meter. Though Stoof just slightly. The Fonz is just rubbing me the wrong way.

Emp, Could you explain why you believe Jo lied about his night choices? You have made some bald statements today regarding him, have been asked for support, but have been silent regarding those requests.

Is Stoofer on vacation?

[Mr Stoofer]

I am going to be away, with no Internet access whatsoever, for 10 days from today.

[DestroyeroftheSky]

DotS: Utterly detest his play. And yet he could not be more town.

LOL. <3

Results of reread (of Fonz, Jo and mathcam) to come tomorrow.

[DestroyeroftheSky]

I am going to be away, with no Internet access whatsoever, for 10 days from today.

If you read this can you at least tell us who you'd like to lynch today? If you're confident enough, vote them.

[Johoohno]

That's a really weak response.

A weak case can only receive a weak response.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Aw snap?

Weak case or no, your defense isn't actually a response to the points of the case, its a separate reason not to vote for you that doesn't hold water.

[Johoohno]

Because obviously if you are mafia with a role, you would have other mafia without roles do the killing, or you can kill and utilize your power. That's a really weak response.

Is this your case on me and what your vote on me is based upon? If so I once again ask all players, how many believe there is more than one anti-town player left? I don't (and I have said so before).

Furthermore, TSN even thinks that the mafia can both use an ability and nightkill. I disagree. That would be extremely powerful and pretty unbalanced. We haven't seen any evidence of that in the game either, there has always been players that can't really show what they've done last night (that would be those on my scum list).

Weak case or no, your defense isn't actually a response to the points of the case, its a separate reason not to vote for you that doesn't hold water.

In the quote above it sounds as if TSN thinks the case on me might be a weak one, but despite that he has put me at L-2. Strange play I'd say.

[KingPin]

We haven't seen any evidence of that in the game either, there has always been players that can't really show what they've done last night (that would be those on my scum list).

I note that you cannot account for your night ability last night. If we follow your reasoning for the persons on your scum list, why wouldn't we consider you on that list as well? I tend to agree that it isn't possible for scum to both nightkill and use their power. I don't know for sure whether there are more than one scum left at this point. I'd err on the side of caution though, and say yes.

[Johoohno]

@ Kingpin: Didn't you try to block Stoofer's vote today but ended up blocking my instead?

[KingPin]

Jo:
Are you saying that you caused that?

[DestroyeroftheSky]

Regarding the number of scum left, I think it's two because of this:

... (e.g., if they were trying to get Stoofer lynched for some reason, then I suspect that they'd

both

go after him)...

I don't see why mathcam would have gone out of his way to to lie about there being

more

mafia than there are.

Whatever the case, we're not in lylo, so is it really something to worry about right now?

And yeah, what is Johoohno trying to say about him losing a vote instead of Stoofer?

[Johoohno]

I said I switched TSN & KingPin in post 707.

KingPin says in the post after that one that he targeted Mr Stoofer (and Fonz). Somehow I ended up without a vote. I think the math is quite obvious. The only thing that doesn't add up is TSN aiming Stoofer primarily (and me as a back-up), but either he or EmpTyger (who claims to have doubled TSN) could have lied about their night targets/choices.

@ DotS: I think mathcam's both could just as easily mean himself and his partner.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Furthermore, TSN even thinks that the mafia can both use an ability and nightkill. I disagree. That would be extremely powerful and pretty unbalanced. We haven't seen any evidence of that in the game either, there has always been players that can't really show what they've done last night (that would be those on my scum list).

In the quote above it sounds as if TSN thinks the case on me might be a weak one, but despite that he has put me at L-2. Strange play I'd say.

That's not what I said at all. I'm saying that

regardless

(there's that word again) of the strength of the case, your defense didn't defend against it. I think the case was reasonably strong, and your weak defense and now misrepresentation is making me feel better and better about it.

[KingPin]

I said I switched TSN & KingPin in post 707.

KingPin says in the post after that one that he targeted Mr Stoofer (and Fonz). Somehow I ended up without a vote. I think the math is quite obvious. The only thing that doesn't add up is TSN aiming Stoofer primarily (and me as a back-up), but either he or EmpTyger (who claims to have doubled TSN) could have lied about their night targets/choices.

@ DotS: I think mathcam's both could just as easily mean himself and his partner.

The math is not obvious. How does this 'prove' that your night action was used last night? It does not! All it proves is that you do not have a vote. Last I checked, that proves that I used my night action, not you! And thank you for refreshing the argument that Emp has been making all day, that any theory needs to explain the results from last nights actions.

You know, I really want to vote The Fonz today. But you are beginning to make a compelling case for yourself! I had hoped to hear DotS's conclusions regarding the Fonz and Emp's conclusions regarding Jo before voting. But right now, it is neck and neck between Fonz and Jo, for me at least.

[DestroyeroftheSky]

KingPin, why am I starting to get the feeling that you were stalling on a vote for Fonz?

What are you saying about Jo's claim? That you don't believe he is a target switcher? I thought the results of his actions in Day 2 were as apparent as yours today. If your argument against Jo is that his night 2 choice claim doesn't add up, then you should be equally suspicious of Emp and TSN.

---

I'm still finishing my reread, but so far I still don't see a case against Johoohno (page 9 =/). I'm completely willing to bet that The Fonz is scum based almost entirely on the fact that his claimed role, while having a night action, has no target. Other than that, his play hasn't convinced me that he's town and I'm not going to vote for Jo while I don't understand the case on him.

On that note, if there are any definitive posts that outline the case against him, can someone link me to them?

[Johoohno]

@ KingPin: Did you target Stoofer as you claimed? If so, how did your voteblock end up on me then? I am a target switcher, you have seen evidence of that earlier in the game. I don't deny that all the night choices add up, and my guess is that somebody lied about their choices. The easiest explanation is that either DotS, Emp or TSN is the liar (since their actions hasn't really been confirmed any night, except for TSN's roleblock the second night - but I've stated my case on him in post 765).

@ TSN: Can you then state the case on me?

Mod: please prod the Fonz

[KingPin]

KingPin, why am I starting to get the feeling that you were stalling on a vote for Fonz?

What are you saying about Jo's claim? That you don't believe he is a target switcher? I thought the results of his actions in Day 2 were as apparent as yours today. If your argument against Jo is that his night 2 choice claim doesn't add up, then you should be equally suspicious of Emp and TSN.

I don't know why you get the feeling that I am stalling. I want to be sure before I vote that I make the most correct choice. I have outlined who I believe is scum, Fonz Jo Stoof. I believe that the remaining scum are in this list. The reason I have not voted yet, is because I have two votes, and if I am wrong, easy lynch for scum.

The second part: I do not believe his targets from last night. Not the previous night, just last night. I think his first two nights claimed targets were truthful.

To further that, I am a bit suspicious of all the players. I am trying to work out how a night kill happened after the claims from last night. I agree that Emp, Fonz, Stoof, TSN and you, for that matter, have abilities that are substantially more difficult to 'prove' when used on the targets, which were claimed. However, based on day play, I think that Jo's claimed targets last night are questionable AND not provable.

I still think that The Fonz is the correct choice today, simply because I don't trust his day-game-play coupled with the role claim. But Jo, IMO, is making little mistakes as he tries to explain away his actions and his reasoning for his suspicious list. Thus he is moving upward on my scum-o-meter.

I just saw Jo's post, response:
Yes, my targets were truthfully stated.
Someone is screwing around with the targets.
I agree that someone has lied about their targets.
You could just as easily be lying about your targets as either of the players that you have identified.

As stated above, the claims don't add up. The players who claim to have roles that screw with targets are DotS and Jo. I don't believe DotS is scum, based on game play. I believe that you may be scum and are lying. Notwithstanding that scum may have lied and have a role different from which they claimed.

Lastly, Jo, please explain in detail how your role is proved to have been used last night, other than my target did not lose a vote.

[Johoohno]

On the topic of last nights actions. KingPin wanted to voteblock Stoofer, but ended up voteblocking me. I switched TSN and KingPin. That tells me that someone changed KingPin's aim, and since I am the only one who's claimed to target KingPin, I am most likely the engine of that.

However, the night choices don't add up correctly: TSN claims to have targeted Stoofer (and me as a back-up), and EmpTyger claims to have doubled TSN's role. If both of them were telling the truths, then both me and Stoofer should be without votes (if I understand every role correctly). Therefore someone has lied about their night action.

TSN lied

This would lead me to believe that he actually targeted someone else primarily (and me as a back-up). Perhaps he targeted Massive, and then killed him. But his secondary wasn't killed, only targeted. That would add up, but demands that extra finesse to how night abilities work.

EmpTyger lied

This could mean just about anything, because I can't remember seeing his ability anywhere in the game.

Do check my logic above!

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

TSN lied This would lead me to believe that he actually targeted someone else primarily (and me as a back-up). Perhaps he targeted Massive, and then killed him. But his secondary wasn't killed, only targeted. That would add up, but demands that extra finesse to how night abilities work.

Even if I lied, that fails to provide an explanation as to why you were voteblocked and stoofer was not. Say I targeted someone else (not stoofer). Why wasn't that person voteblocked? If I targeted massive with a nightkill, why wasn't that switched?

[DestroyeroftheSky]

Eh, the deadline's tomorrow. 3 votes to lynch at deadline, I think. I'm going to stick with the Fonz. I still don't, and never really did get the case on Johoohno.