Mini 653 - Family Guy Mafia - Game over

[farside22]

[Peter gives Stewie a baseball]
Stewie: [to a boy sitting next to him] I say, Opie, I'll trade you this baseball for your souvenir bat.
Boy: Sure! [they trade, then Stewie whacks him with the bat. He takes his ball back]
Stewie: What did you learn?

vote count:

Inspector Godot 1 vote: (thinktank)
Xtoxm 2 vote: (kmd4390,RestFermata)
kmd4390 1 vote: (reborn537)
Elvis_Knits 3 vote: (xtoxm, Crub, Inspector Godot)
reborn537 1 votes: (LlamaFluff)
LlamaFluff 2 votes: (babygirl, reborn537)

Not voting:

GhostWriter
kloud1516
Elvis_Knits

With 12 people it take 7 votes for lynch
Day 1 ends August 25th, 4:00pm PST

[elvis_knits]

Unvote, Vote Dalt

Seemed like a very sneaky attempt at trying to get more people on Xtoxm's bandwagon.

IG: What was sneaky about it? What was sneakier or worse about dalt's vote than the others?

Xtoxm had just had a lot of votes put on him in a short amount of time. To come in and add another without even posting any of your own reasoning, just quoting someone else, seems bad to me.

I agree that the third vote on one person in one page with no reasoning does look bad. If you had said you didn't like the wagoning, or explained it like you did above, I would have totally understood. It's the fact that you characterized it as sneaky that I don't like. Because I don't think there was anything secretive about it. It was all out there.

The only concern I have with Llama's role at the moment is that it could be a very good way of getting the mafia to avoid night killing you. After all, if it benefits them in LYLO then why would they kill you when they could kill someone else and possibly get lucky?

It sounds like you think he's faking it. It also sounds like you think he's not mafia, as you think the claim is a "good way of getting the mafia to avoid night killing you." So either you think he's a SK or town. If you think he's town, you should be against his lynch. Are you? And if you're thinking about SK at this point in the game, it makes me wonder if YOU are mafia, because I usually see mafia worried about SK early (at a time when town are just thinking about catching scum, not telling SK from mafia).

I'm not sure if he's faking it or not. If he is then it rules him out of being Mafia in my book. I hadn't even thought of a SK being in this game. The fact that you added that whole SK spiel at the end of your post is duly noted.

Overall, you've raised some good points about some people but I'm not really convinced yet.

Vote elvis_knits

I don't understand what you were saying then. Because you said you are concerned about llama faking a restriction to avoid mafia NKing him. If you think he's town, why would this concern you?

What I mean is -- if you think a townie has found a way to avoid a NK, why would you dislike that?

[GhostWriter]

Serious bandwagoning. This was going to be my next post. I was going to catch up (which I just did), look back at BG and probably switch my vote. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the major bandwagons have been xtoxm, dalt, and recently llama and I think BG was on all 3. I will go back and look now but I think that's all true. Expect another post from me very shortly.

Close. You're very close, and here's where it gets a bit strange. She stays off of the xtoxm wagon.

[Kmd4390]

woa guys its still early in day 1 and xtoxm is already at l-2? I'm not sure bout that- we've barely had time to gather any info at all.

Ok, so you are trying to stop the bandwagon here on the player who seems to be the scummiest. I agree that this would have been too quick of a lynch but the fact that you try to stop this one and then you jump on others enough that I am looking back at this makes me think that I may be right about BOTH xtoxm and you.

Here's my thoughts on the situation. Although I hate the idea of claiming day one, in this case I find it somewhat helpful- at least we know now that there are restrictions and to expect the unexpected so to speak. As for xtoxm's attacking LF, I don't find it scummy but I don't like it. I haven't played in any games with him(I don't think) so I don't really know his playstyle- maybe he can just be overly aggressive. I definately don't like the idea of lynching someone just because their vote doesn't count- if LF has a good idea of who is scum, he still has the capability of trying to influence other players to see someone's scumminess- sort of like the bandwagon on xtoxm now.

So you disagree with xtoxm but you defend him in the same post.

to a certain extent, I can understand why LF would be attacking txoxm- who wouldnt attack the person thats been attacking them from the start? but there is a certain level as to where the attacks would be acceptable and I do agree that LF's attacks are a bit overboard. I would personally like to hear something from dalt, considering his last post consisted of a vote and no reasoning.

Makes Llama's case look like OMGUS after others have already shown suspicion towards xtoxm.
Calls out dalt immediately after a few others point out the vote as being suspicious.

I don't see anything overly scummy about ghostwriter at all. Dalt, however is still suspicious to me. Although it was only one day, he has indeed posted since he posted his vote here and left. That makes me wonder if he is avoiding explaining his vote.

unvote, vote dalt

IG and xtoxm have already voted dalt at this time. BG has called out dalt but hasn't voted until this point.

xtoxm- you are pushing waaaay too hard for this lynch to happen, and its obvious it't not going to happen- at least not day 1. What are your thoughts on dalt, who quite a few others believe to be scum? I looked back in posts, and imo it does look like an unofficial claim, however do we really know what a claim of cleveland could mean? my vote stands

I agree that xtoxm was pushing a bad case hard here. You get your suspicion confused here though. The case on Dalt was a bandwagoning case and you talk about the cleveland claim which was actually gobo. Scum are building cases on people who they know are townies and therefore don't genuinely believe the case (barring bussing). This confusion leads me to believe that you are trying to force cases here.

I agree. Although I did attempt to read into it awhile back, the more I thought about it and realized that its stupid to keep talking about it. people make quotes in this game- we're playing family guy mafia- theres a million great quotes! I think that we need to just move on and ignore the so-called 'claims' until further in the game when people start making actual claims. Hopefully the game will start progressing again now that we have replacements. I agree that LF's play could be considered scummy- if he hadn't brought up a so-called claim in the first place, we couldnt' have gotten caught up in a character claim when we chould be trying to find scum here.

unvote, vote LF

What a quick change. The claim was scummy before but now it's stupid to talk about? Also, quick to jump on llama's bandwagon.

Conclusion: BG was on two of the three bandwagons that I noticed. Other connections to xtoxm can be seen. Possible scum pair?

[GhostWriter]

There you go, you reached my conclusion.

[Kmd4390]

Serious bandwagoning. This was going to be my next post. I was going to catch up (which I just did), look back at BG and probably switch my vote. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the major bandwagons have been xtoxm, dalt, and recently llama and I think BG was on all 3. I will go back and look now but I think that's all true. Expect another post from me very shortly.

Close. You're very close, and here's where it gets a bit strange. She stays off of the xtoxm wagon.

You beat me to it!
The point is, you saw the same thing that I did. You saw it first but still, it's the same thing. Before the reread, I saw bandwagoning. After the reread, I saw the connection.

I'd agree with a D1 lynch on either of the two right now.

[GhostWriter]

As would I, preferably BG. As a matter of fact,

Vote: babygirl86

.

[reborn537]

I like your cases on BG, and I must admit I was quite surprised when she gave in over my LF case straight away given that she said it was obvious an LF lynch wasn't going to happen.

Also, it is strange how Xtoxm and BG have both been on the LF wagon at some point. But I don't see why it is in the scum's interests to lynch LF if he is town. He can only help their cause while alive (distracting the town AND a novoter - perfect choice to unwittingly help the scum).

I don't agree with your buddying thing either... just because two people interact a lot it doesn't mean they are scum partners. If that were true I'd be voting for one of you two right now.

[Kmd4390]

It's not the interacting thing. It's the voting patterns and disagreement/defense post.

[GhostWriter]

It's not that they interact a lot. As a matter of fact, they very rarely directly interact. It's the fact that BG has gone out of her way to "agree" with the points of 2/3 of the big wagons, and then steered clear of one. And your right, maybe that doesn't connect them. But either way, it's suspicious on BG's part, due to how she made the change on her stance with LF, after she had agreed with him before that gobo was making a character claim. That is why I voted BG over xtoxm in this situation.

[farside22]

Prodding thinktank last post 6:31pm 08/12 and xtoxm last post 5:59pm 08/12

[RestFermata]

I was just thinking earlier today when I was having a snack that BG looked suspicious, but I hadn't noticed the fact that she had avoided the xtoxm wagon until I read you guys' post. Good snooping. It does appear she had a tendency to lightly waltz around accusing him, being very soft on him in general, always preferring to keep the limelight on other players. I also don't like her complete 180. While I too changed my mind, I did it because new information came to light that I hadn't realized before. She seemed to do it for absolutely no reason, or perhaps just because she doesn't want to be alone in her accusation!

I'd be OK with either an xtoxm or BG wagon, as well. If we lynch one and he/she turns out scum, it'll shed more light on the other.

[Inspector Godot]

Good job spotting that BG/Xtoxm connection. It does seem very suspicious. When I have time to do a reread (probably tomorrow) I'll look into it some more.

[thinktank]

I like your cases on BG, and I must admit I was quite surprised when she gave in over my LF case straight away given that she said it was obvious an LF lynch wasn't going to happen.

Also, it is strange how Xtoxm and BG have both been on the LF wagon at some point. But I don't see why it is in the scum's interests to lynch LF if he is town. He can only help their cause while alive (distracting the town AND a novoter - perfect choice to unwittingly help the scum).

I don't agree with your buddying thing either... just because two people interact a lot it doesn't mean they are scum partners. If that were true I'd be voting for one of you two right
now.

Yes that's true but of all the scummy things Xtoxm has done, the most "attacking" BG has made is this:

xtoxm- you are pushing waaaay too hard for this lynch to happen, and its obvious it't not going to happen- at least not day 1. What are your thoughts on dalt, who quite a few others believe to be scum? I looked back in posts, and imo it does look like an unofficial claim, however do we really know what a claim of cleveland could mean? my vote stands

Which comes of more as advice than anything else. They may not be partners but their interaction is very weird.

[elvis_knits]

I'm not sure I really care about BG. I'm more interested in why IG posted and didn't respond to my post 201.

[farside22]

Just a mod note: Everyone will be prodded if they don't post by the 48 hour mark. Please don't be offended if you are prodded. I am treating everyone the same when it comes to prods. The times people will be replaced and have been replaced are people I noticed had not been posting on MS at all since prodded.
Final note I will be on vacation for labor day weekend. I am leaving Saturday and should be back Monday afternoon. The dates are Aug 30 thru the 1st of September.
Thank you.

Crub has till Saturday 8:00pm PST to post or reply to prod or will be replaced.

[babygirl86]

ok I dont think xtoxm is scum! how many times do I have to say it? I have seen many games where town people do stupid things- I think that's what he is doing. I don't like what he's done- I dont agree with it- but I don't think he's scum. As for LF, I was the first to vote for him- how is that hopping on a bandwagon? and as for dalt why is it wrong to vote for someone who is being bandwagoned when you agree that their behavior is scummy?

[Xtoxm]

Why are you advising other players on stuff? If you turn up scum, I'm not going to be surprised if Garborage turns up scum as well based on your current actions.

Your scum points are starting to add up and soon you'll be able to redeem them for my vote.

Because, although I don't think IG is aksing it in a rolefishy kinda way, answering it could lead to accidently saying something about his role.

You seem to believe the claim which is why I don't see the case.

Yes, I do believe the claim. Maybe you've got a point. Perhaps he's some kind of rolecop vig, trying to throw scum off. So i'll lay off him for the moment.

But he did seem very sincere in when he said he didn't have a vote, so I think it highly likely he's telling the truth about that.

xtoxm - do you really think llama is scum and why? Or do you just think the town is better off without him no matter his allignment?

I've found him a bit scummy, but yes the latter is the reason why i've been pushing his lynch.

xtoxm: can you elaborate why you find the claim scummy? Was it timing or something else?

As I said earlier - I find the claim scummy, as if I was a voteless townie I would not claim right off to the scum that I have a horribly anti-town role, and that they should steer their kills away from me at night. The aim of the voteless townie should be to get NKed before he has to sacrifice himself.

xtoxm: Why do you think gobo is town?

Well, i've just got a general town feel from his posts.

Also, xtoxm, you don't seem to be looking at anyone else as scum. What are your suspicions?

Um, sorry? Yes I have. I have stated suspicion for Dalt (Now yourself) and Crub.

I am suspicious of xtoxm for not looking at any players besides llama as scum.

This is a direct mistruth about me, and makes me very happy with my current vote on you, not on Llama.

Need to go now, but will look at pages 8 and 9 when I get back, later this evening.

[GhostWriter]

As for LF, I was the first to vote for him- how is that hopping on a bandwagon?

In this case, the bandwagon was a bandwagon of ideas, started by me. Granted, yours may have been the first actual vote, it wouldn't have been had I decided on using a vote, as opposed to the FoS that I placed. What's more, to get on it, you did a complete about face. You seemed to have known the whole time that gobo had been talking about the quote, yet you had backed what LF was saying, up until the point that I fought against it. Then you jumped ship, and landed on my bandwagon of targeting LF. Yes, I do know that xtoxm is/was also targeting LF, but my reason for doing it and his reason for it are completely different, and I've already made my disapproval of his reason known.

[LlamaFluff]

I still like looking at reborn more then BG at this point, when he came in he made pretty much a BS case on me right off the bat and still hasnt answered my last questions I posed to him, instead commenting on BG.

I also am interested to see where EKs push on IG takes us.

[RestFermata]

You may not like reborn's case against you, but in my opinion, it's not half as bad as xtoxm's. And I've seen possible connections between BG, xtoxm, and goborage.

1. Xtoxm seemed to like goborage for no apparent reason. He has been questioned several times on why he thinks that goborage is town, and the only reason he's given is that he likes his posts. Especially the one about Xtoxm "bringing up some pretty good points." They were getting pretty snuggly before gobo got replaced. Then reborn immediately did what looks like a tad of distancing --not TOO much, but just enough, when he made one little measly comment about not being sure if he liked xtoxm, but subsequently moved on to talk about other people.

2. BG and xtoxm's possible association has just recently come up. I think it's a legitimate concern. I definitely think it needs close attention, and I don't agree with Llama's preference for looking at reborn instead. Any case is going to look like BS to you if it's against you, but you and only you know for sure that they're wrong. (Keep in mind that this is assuming innocence, a dangerous thing to assume!) I think all of these little threads need to be followed.

If I've missed something glaring, please let me know.

[Inspector Godot]

I'm not sure I really care about BG. I'm more interested in why IG posted and didn't respond to my post 201.

Sorry, I didn't have much time when I posted. I should have added a note about how I was going to respond to you later.

Unvote, Vote Dalt

Seemed like a very sneaky attempt at trying to get more people on Xtoxm's bandwagon.

IG: What was sneaky about it? What was sneakier or worse about dalt's vote than the others?

Xtoxm had just had a lot of votes put on him in a short amount of time. To come in and add another without even posting any of your own reasoning, just quoting someone else, seems bad to me.

I agree that the third vote on one person in one page with no reasoning does look bad. If you had said you didn't like the wagoning, or explained it like you did above, I would have totally understood. It's the fact that you characterized it as sneaky that I don't like. Because I don't think there was anything secretive about it. It was all out there.

It seemed to me that Dalt wanted more people to keep voting so that his would go under the radar. It seems strange, I know, but that's just how it seemed.

The only concern I have with Llama's role at the moment is that it could be a very good way of getting the mafia to avoid night killing you. After all, if it benefits them in LYLO then why would they kill you when they could kill someone else and possibly get lucky?

It sounds like you think he's faking it. It also sounds like you think he's not mafia, as you think the claim is a "good way of getting the mafia to avoid night killing you." So either you think he's a SK or town. If you think he's town, you should be against his lynch. Are you? And if you're thinking about SK at this point in the game, it makes me wonder if YOU are mafia, because I usually see mafia worried about SK early (at a time when town are just thinking about catching scum, not telling SK from mafia).

I'm not sure if he's faking it or not. If he is then it rules him out of being Mafia in my book. I hadn't even thought of a SK being in this game. The fact that you added that whole SK spiel at the end of your post is duly noted.

Overall, you've raised some good points about some people but I'm not really convinced yet.

Vote elvis_knits

I don't understand what you were saying then. Because you said you are concerned about llama faking a restriction to avoid mafia NKing him. If you think he's town, why would this concern you?

What I mean is -- if you think a townie has found a way to avoid a NK, why would you dislike that?

If he's a power role I wouldn't dislike it. But if he's an ordinary vanilla townie, then it just seems like a waste. I'd rather have a townie NK'd then a power role.

[Kmd4390]

ok I dont think xtoxm is scum! how many times do I have to say it? I have seen many games where town people do stupid things- I think that's what he is doing. I don't like what he's done- I dont agree with it- but I don't think he's scum. As for LF, I was the first to vote for him- how is that hopping on a bandwagon? and as for dalt why is it wrong to vote for someone who is being bandwagoned when you agree that their behavior is scummy?

What is he doing that makes you think that he isn't scum?

You were first to

vote

for llama. You were NOT the first on llama's case. It's not so much that you jumped the dalt bandwagon, it's the fact that you jumped those two bandwagons but avoided the one on xtoxm.

Yes, I do believe the claim. Maybe you've got a point. Perhaps he's some kind of rolecop vig, trying to throw scum off. So i'll lay off him for the moment.

Nobody is attacking you for believing the claim. In fact, most people do seem to believe the claim. It's believing the claim but still pushing for the lynch anyway that people are on your case about.

[kloud1516]

As for LF, I was the first to vote for him- how is that hopping on a bandwagon?

In this case, the bandwagon was a bandwagon of ideas, started by me. Granted, yours may have been the first actual vote, it wouldn't have been had I decided on using a vote, as opposed to the FoS that I placed. What's more, to get on it, you did a complete about face. You seemed to have known the whole time that gobo had been talking about the quote, yet you had backed what LF was saying, up until the point that I fought against it. Then you jumped ship, and landed on my bandwagon of targeting LF. Yes, I do know that xtoxm is/was also targeting LF, but my reason for doing it and his reason for it are completely different, and I've already made my disapproval of his reason known.

QFT. I find the erratic nature of BG's actions to stand out very prominently at the moment, especially when put in the spotlight along side all of the pieces of evidence that serve as possible and probable links to xtoxm and gobo/reborn. I feel that there are several different scenarios that could be in play at the moment, and so I will voice my theories that are, as I have just stated, simply theory. I admit that this will be walking threateningly close to the terminus of WIFOM, but I feel that trying to piece facts together as you all have done above might lead us to the right scenario and inevitably assist in hitting scum. Here are my thoughts:

a) BG is scum and therefore knows who is pro-town and who is not. Because of this information, she is trying to connect herself to someone/several people she felt others would believe to be pro-town early on in the game in hopes of making herself look pro-town.

b) BG is scum and xtoxm is scum. BG is now trying to appear as though she suspects xtoxm so that distancing can occur, but at the same time has been agreeing with him on certain arguments and trying to help stir the pot in order to maintain heightened levels of paranoia within the town.

c) BG is town and simply agrees with some points made by xtoxm, and then disagrees with other arguments brought up. If this is so, then it could be likely that my possible scenario A is in play, though vice versa with xtoxm as scum and trying to link himself with a pro-town player in hopes of looking more town.

At the moment, I must admit that I am still rather ignorant as to the possible connections between BG, xtoxm, and gobo/reborn, and this is the reason that gobo/reborn was not added into the situations. I will be doing a reread in just a moment, and will then give my opinions of the thoughts/observations posted by others on this topic. As I said before, the scenarios listed above are mere speculation, but from what I have seen of preceding posts, the evidence against BG is logical and substantial.

Because of this, I will

vote: BG

I find your actions that have been brought to the surface by others to indeed be a plausible link between you and the already suspicious (imo) xtoxm. Not only this, but I feel that when others brought up the subject, you reacted in a way that appeared frantic, which makes me feel that you have something to hide.

My example:

ok I dont think xtoxm is scum! how many times do I have to say it? I have seen many games where town people do stupid things- I think that's what he is doing. I don't like what he's done- I dont agree with it- but I don't think he's scum. As for LF, I was the first to vote for him- how is that hopping on a bandwagon? and as for dalt why is it wrong to vote for someone who is being bandwagoned when you agree that their behavior is scummy?

The patterned actions pointed out by others make sense, and in the light of this accumulated observations, this response only seems like an attempt to distance yourself from xtoxm. You say you don't agree with what he has done, but then what is this?

Here's my thoughts on the situation. Although I hate the idea of claiming day one, in this case I find it somewhat helpful- at least we know now that there are restrictions and to expect the unexpected so to speak. As for xtoxm's attacking LF, I don't find it scummy but I don't like it. I haven't played in any games with him(I don't think) so I don't really know his playstyle- maybe he can just be overly aggressive. I definately don't like the idea of lynching someone just because their vote doesn't count- if LF has a good idea of who is scum, he still has the capability of trying to influence other players to see someone's scumminess- sort of like the bandwagon on xtoxm now.

To me, you are defending xtoxm's reasoning, while then disagreeing with his vote/reasoning on LF. A few sentences later, it appears that you are voicing dissent in regards to the wagon against xtoxm. As I said earlier: erratic actions brought to us by BG.

If any players disagree with my logic and/or observations, please let me know, for I tried to be as thorough in my reread as possible, but there is still a possibility that I missed something. I will repeat the fact that the scenarios listed above are mostly speculation, and as such may be flawed. As I said earlier in this paragraph, if you do indeed believe that the possibilities are flawed, let me know.

[farside22]

bump