Monty Python's Mafia Circus Game Over

[SpyreX]

Also, because I just CANT let it drop because it makes me :facedesk:

From the Mafia Wiki: The DEFINITION OF THE WORD SCUM

see also: Anti-town

Scum is a catch-all term for any member of an informed minority, such as Serial Killers and Mafia goons.

During a day phase, everybody is seemingly trying to locate and eliminate these roles.

It is typical to use the word scum as an adjective or other means as well. (i.e. That's a scummish thing to do. or You are acting quite scummy.)

So, lets just drop that now, and stick to the question I've asked more than once.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

And, TSPN - are you talking about Strap? Or did I miss an actual investigative role clearing me?

I'm talking about the bridgekeeper-whose results I trust, for the most part.

[Muerrto]

And, TSPN - are you talking about Strap? Or did I miss an actual investigative role clearing me?

I'm talking about the bridgekeeper-whose results I trust, for the most part.

Why? Also, why would you trust Spyrex's answers?

FoS: TSPN

And Spyrex, I didn't see cult listed in that Wiki quote. And for good reason. I'm not trying to be condescending but you said yourself you don't have alot of games under your belt. I do. Just drop it. This is a discussion for mafia theory, not this game.

[strappado]

I'm a total slacker - incredibly busy, very sorry. Will catch up and post tonight.
sorry sorry sorry sorry

[PokerFace]

Ok I'll put an end to this.

After the game

you two indeed should put a thread/poll in MD asking the question:

Which of these is scum?
A) Just Mafia
B) Mafia and SK's
C) Mafia and Werewolves
D) Mafia, Werewolves, SK
E) Any anti-town faction (Mafia, werewolves, SK, Cult)

Now that, that is settled...

@Muerto,

do you suspect SpyreX? If so do you suspect him more or less then the people you mentioned earlier? Basically where would you rank SpyreX with respect to the people you listed earlier, above or below them?

And, TSPN - are you talking about Strap? Or did I miss an actual investigative role clearing me?

I'm talking about the bridgekeeper-whose results I trust, for the most part.

As far as trusting what the bridgekeeper may think I guess that is a player's perogative pending if the bridgekeeper ever turns up and is town. We can discuss that topic further, when and if he does. I see no need to encourage this matter further right now.

For the moment I suspect 3 players which is highly subject to change considering what has been going on.
Chenshi - he has contributed to thuis game, hasn't he Borat?... NOT!
Gurgi - Certain aspects of his post restriction still bug me. I may go into this further later on. He has been fairly protown otherwise.
SpyreX - Only because his claim still doesn't make sence with how Darla's corpse turned up. He has been fairly protown otherwise.

Won't be voting any of them right now since I believe there are still some people needing to give responces and because I'd like to have a bigger suspect then a lousy lurker. Lurker lynches, feel like a crap shoot all too often. I may take some time to read over Azimuth later on. And see if my early notes can be effective in further ways aswell.

Those that said 2 taunters is possible:

Strappado - began to consider it post #361 and after me, Gurgi and mirth discussed things she unvoted in #374. Wanted Chenshi lynch over a darla lynch #536
Darla - #387
Ninja - #438 he had previously made an uncounted vote on her. in #347. In 499 he says he is down with lynching darla while his vote is not on her.
Inernet - #505 said "we" had considered the idea and found it too silly when really only some others had discussed it and he just got off V/la and didn't discuss it with everybody else

Those that said Both Darla and SpyreX could both be scum:

Luigi - Pushed the idea strongly
Mirth - Pushed it weekly as a possibility
Jordan - Pushed it weekly as a possibility
Me & Bruce & (I think) Muerto - Said it was possible and something only to consider the next day should one come up french taunter.
Elvis comments on them both being scum as a very ballsy move considering the counter claiming. And thus unlikly.

[PokerFace]

Oh and clear things up some.

@PF: As for the cult being a red herring, possibly. You still haven't found a tobacconist? Do you have to ask in thread or does it only work at night? Do you have to direct your question at the right person at night for it to work? Does your PM say anything?

I wasn't trying to infer that I consider the cult a red herring, I don't consider the cult that. For now I am going to assume their is a high probablity of their existance.

As far as the tobaconist goes, I have good reason to believe a tobaconist may be in play. I am capable of testing any player that would try to claim it. I don't have confirmation they are town or scum. I lean towards town. I brought up my search openly during the day in an attempt to test the probability he is in play. Since he has not come forward, I am left with the possibility that the way I ask my question is the greater determining factor then who I ask it too. I do ask my question and perform the search at night, and since it is rather difficult with things getting mal translated, I felt the need to bring it up during the day so that things could become easier from my point of view.

As far as what happens when I get the cigarettes I have more theories there too, but nothing definite. Shaft.ed made my role real confusing and silly.

[farside22]

I can't say I agree with any of your choices there PF. I understand the LG thing, but as a mod myself sometimes I may give a role and it isn't always random. Spyrex is someone of interest but low on my scum scale and I still think Chernshi is an easy BW for scum to jump on.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Why? Also, why would you trust Spyrex's answers?

Well, if I trust the bridgekeeper, it follows that I would trust spyrex answers. . . what are you getting at?

[SpyreX]

I can't say I agree with any of your choices there PF. I understand the LG thing, but as a mod myself sometimes I may give a role and it isn't always random. Spyrex is someone of interest but low on my scum scale and I still think Chernshi is an easy BW for scum to jump on.

The thing about Chenshi is (aside from his V/LA) - its obvious from timing he's been checking the thread and choosing not to contribute. When asked to contribute, he has not (in fact he moved from lurking, to lurking in plain sight). Considering, even with V/LA, he is still in this game I can only assume it is not lurking due to inattention but active lurking.

When you, with that, take what he's actually SAID - he has managed to contribute nothing and skate along. On top of that, he's managed more than once in his saying nothing to actually BE scummy while saying nothing.

You're saying that it is an easy wagon for scum to jump on - if he IS town, yes, that is true; he'll be left alive every day and there will be a wagon on him EVERY day. However, I think that his play has been scummy (not just for lurking, but for the timing and "content" he does post.

Despite the fact I am now even more confident Muerrto is scum, I -still- see chen as being obvious scum hiding behind a meta-shield.

[farside22]

I can't say I agree with any of your choices there PF. I understand the LG thing, but as a mod myself sometimes I may give a role and it isn't always random. Spyrex is someone of interest but low on my scum scale and I still think Chernshi is an easy BW for scum to jump on.

The thing about Chenshi is (aside from his V/LA) - its obvious from timing he's been checking the thread and choosing not to contribute. When asked to contribute, he has not (in fact he moved from lurking, to lurking in plain sight). Considering, even with V/LA, he is still in this game I can only assume it is not lurking due to inattention but active lurking.

When you, with that, take what he's actually SAID - he has managed to contribute nothing and skate along. On top of that, he's managed more than once in his saying nothing to actually BE scummy while saying nothing.

You're saying that it is an easy wagon for scum to jump on - if he IS town, yes, that is true; he'll be left alive every day and there will be a wagon on him EVERY day. However, I think that his play has been scummy (not just for lurking, but for the timing and "content" he does post.

Despite the fact I am now even more confident Muerrto is scum, I -still- see chen as being obvious scum hiding behind a meta-shield.

So you want to lynch chernshi because whether town or scum he is a deterament instead of seeing if the mod will replace him instead?

[SpyreX]

No, I want to lynch chenshi because I think he's scum. The fact that he's provided nothing reinforces the belief that he is scum.

I think that I made that pretty clear more than once above.

[farside22]

No, I want to lynch chenshi because I think he's scum. The fact that he's provided nothing reinforces the belief that he is scum.

I think that I made that pretty clear more than once above.

What has he done except contribute nothing that makes him scum?

Mod: Any chance we could replace chenshi?

chenhsi informed me he would be on vacation, but said he should be able to post within the game limits. I did not have the time to secure a temporary replacement as I did for JordanA24 since there was no advanced warning. He was warned that he will be replaced if he breaks the game posting rules, but asked that he be given a chance until such rules are broken.

[SpyreX]

Well, lets see. He has 44 posts. None of which I think are more than 3 lines - the number of posts is almost double that of the other "lurkers".

He has not placed a vote this entire game.

Day 2 AND Day 3 he was there right when game started (there was no PM notification of game start) - which means he has been paying attention to this game.

Now, for some posts that give that good ol' scummy feeling:

I am not random voting because this is chaos and I'm confused

Starting off with the "I'm confused" card when you have mafia experience.

I'm just curious but which games are you looking at? I only did that in 2 out of my 9 games...

An example of said experience - also, saying that he CAN and HAS posted more than this before.

Explain myself? What I am supposed to explain? Why I lurked? Because I always do?

This gem followed up later by:

I could explain why I was lurking yesterday ... although I can't explain why I am playing today...

AND by:

Which is kind of lurking on purpose, and kind of not.

And, of course, the start of Day 3:

Oh no... Mirth died...
Lucky its only 1 death...

Talking about night actions isn't necessarily a scum tell. Being a huge lurker, contributing nothing and "Ohh gosh, lucky its only 1" IS a huge tell on my radar.

But, of course:

Paying attention to a game and actively contributing nothing all game IS scummy. Not voting once all game (keeping one of the major ways to find scum absent) IS scummy. Not having an opinion on anything is scummy.

[strappado]

@ farside - what reason(s) do you have for suspecting chenhsi might be town and a lynch on him might be negative for the town?

[farside22]

@ farside - what reason(s) do you have for suspecting chenhsi might be town and a lynch on him might be negative for the town?

Its a gut feeling but Spryx brought up some good points. But part of the votes against cherish remind me of the iron man BW. With Cherishi on vacation I want to see who else is looks scummy to people and why.

[strappado]

darn farside, you really hate chenhsi's name, huh? hahahaha

[farside22]

darn farside, you really hate chenhsi's name, huh? hahahaha

The person is that forgetable for me.

[elvis_knits]

I have always considered a cult to be scum. Sorry, Muerto. They do not have the same win condition as the town, so I consider them scum... I mean, town needs them to die, right?

I do agree there is a difference between how they act, and how they should be treated. They're recruiting, not killing (usually). But recruiting hurts the town's numbers too.

Uh, so anyway... Muerto: why do you think spyrex is cult? What has he done to indicate that he is cult as opposed to mafia or something?

Personally, I think the cult might be a red herring. I have reason to believe that there are some of these in the game. Not sure, but I just am suspicious of it.

[Muerrto]

[Despite the fact I am now even more confident Muerrto is scum

You seem to plug this into just about every post but only since I started calling you out. Yet others are also suspect of you and you haven't called them out. Can you post a case with quotes and evidence or is this straight OMGUS?

@Elvis/PF: As for the Cult, herring? Possibly. But I'd rather err on the side of caution. As for how Spyrex fits on my suspect scale? He doesn't. But he seems sooo adamant that there's no cult to the point of calling me scum for accusing him of being in it that he just screams cult himself.

@TSPN: As for the bridgekeeper. So what you're saying isn't that you doubt the existance of the bridge keeper since it's been confirmed twice, but for some reason you take Spyrex's answers as he posted them at face value and call it an investigation confirming him? Did I get that right?

[PokerFace]

hmm... so you think he has a good chance of being cult (because he doesn't think there is one), but otherwise don't suspect him considering he isn't scummy compared to those you earlier mentioned.
Is that what you are saying Muerto?

I can see why Muerto's comments have come off as somewhat contradictory. Since Muerto wants to lynch the cult, it would make sence he would want to vote for and scumhunt someone who has a good chance of being cult. I think this is the conection SpyeX is making. Muerto, do you see you previous suspects as having a good chance of being in a cult? Do you want to lynch cult or scum(Mafia, SK, etc) first or does it not matter to you who goes first?

Also Maybe its just me, but I don't think you guys should be continueing this bridgekeeper talk. I have a bad feeling it may evolve into a discussion that will eventually out the bridge keeper.

@Farside,

I suspect Chenshi for pretty much the same reasons, SpyreX does. But like you, farside, I kinda want to find and lynch a far scummier player simply because lynches of players that lurk that much, feel like such a crap shoot. Hense I am going to try and find a far scummier player, assuming there is one.

@Mod-Shaft.ed please prod Killa Seven

prodded this morning

[farside22]

It really hurts my sense of pride and game play when I see a player who says they are on vacation hanging around on the MS and not playing the game they said they would

FOS: Chenshi

[elvis_knits]

So Muerto says he thinks spyrex is cult because he keeps saying there isn't a cult. So I went back and read spyrex to see if he was really pushing the idea that there was no cult (because I felt like muerto brought up that spyrex might be cult BEFORE spyrex really said that a cult didn't exist). I was sort of wrong. Spyrex has been saying he thinks there's no cult. But it's much more like he thinks it's unlikely, not that he's pushing the idea of a cult as impossible. So, Muerto has some point, but I don't think it's that strong.

This is an example of what spyrex was saying about a cult:

However, I am still taking it with a grain of salt - like the tobacconist, until we have some concrete evidence (cult cop, dead cult, etc) I'm going to assume Maf / SK.

This made me think of something else --

PF -- you've mentioned several times that you're looking for the tobacoonist. Even on D1 you said you were looking for cigs. Why do you think the tobacoonist hasn't come forward? Or at least breadcrumbed to you? I am starting to think he doesn't exist. Do you think that's possible? Or do you think there might be reasons the tobacoonist isn't coming forward? (I realize this might involve role speculation, and that's not what I want to get started. You can merely say "yes, I think there might be a reason" without speculating what that reason might be. If you think it will give away important info).

[PokerFace]

PF -- you've mentioned several times that you're looking for the tobacoonist. Even on D1 you said you were looking for cigs. Why do you think the tobacoonist hasn't come forward? Or at least breadcrumbed to you? I am starting to think he doesn't exist. Do you think that's possible? Or do you think there might be reasons the tobacoonist isn't coming forward? (I realize this might involve role speculation, and that's not what I want to get started. You can merely say "yes, I think there might be a reason" without speculating what that reason might be. If you think it will give away important info).

Indeed I have considered the possiblity he doesn't exist. In fact I posted this earlier in the game:

Lastly, On flavor alone I am fairly certain the person I am searching for, who has some cigarettes and matches, is either Town or they don't exist, meaning I got nerfed. I suppose it is also possible they want to keep silent for other reasons. (10% chance they are scum, 55% chance I got nerfed they don't exist, 35% chance they are town and not said anything yet). I am willing to respect their hiding I guess, so unless someone wants to claim to be the one I am looking for, I'm just going to have to assume they want to stay silent, since I am rather stuborn at giving up entirely. See you guys later I'm getting hungry.

At this moment I'd say the probablity he doesn't exist is now about 85%. And if that percent is correct, then that would mean I get my cigs and matches based on how I ask the question and not who I ask it to. And yes I guess its possible they have some alterior reasons for not coming forward, meaning they got something hide like their own powers or they are scum. And I'd put that possibility at 15%. These numbers are mostly estimations based on what I have learned and my flavor. I don't have exact number formulas for you on how I got to these values.

[Muerrto]

hmm... so you think he has a good chance of being cult (because he doesn't think there is one), but otherwise don't suspect him considering he isn't scummy compared to those you earlier mentioned.
Is that what you are saying Muerto?

I can see why Muerto's comments have come off as somewhat contradictory. Since Muerto wants to lynch the cult, it would make sence he would want to vote for and scumhunt someone who has a good chance of being cult. I think this is the conection SpyeX is making. Muerto, do you see you previous suspects as having a good chance of being in a cult? Do you want to lynch cult or scum(Mafia, SK, etc) first or does it not matter to you who goes first?

Not really. I'm saying he can't be(IMHO) aligned with Darla who was scum but the fact he's supposedly a duplicate claim in a theme game is something I've literally never seen before. Has anyone else?

Therefore, that makes him cult/SK. I'm leaning cult because he's quite adamant that he doesn't think there is one. Does that clear it up a little?

So yes, he's scummy because of his claim but he CAN'T be scum(again IMHO) so that makes him a 3rd party.

As for who I suspect and who I want to lynch? Right now, Spyrex. K7's a close second because of his action and his subsequent target(not to mention his lurking to add to that). But Spyrex is also my top because of his recent OMGUS kick which is definitely usually something scum resort to(or newbies but he's said multiple times that while he only has a few games under his belt he knows what he's doing so I'm not letting him use the newbie card).

[killa seven]

/prodded