Mini Normal 2157 | Over

[Andresvmb]

Actually you would have already died since Ico also checked in. So the correct choice is between me and you. I appreciate the WIFOM though about VPB, very clever. Will be summarily ignored.

[Alduskkel]

i don't think i've ever been in a lylo with two completely separate 1v1s and i don't know how to handle it LOL

[Andresvmb]

Okay I’ll be out doing some work and eating dinner. I’m locking my vote. I’ll be back later.

[Alduskkel]

To be honest... I feel more confident in my ability to sort between VPB/Koba than to prove I'm town and you're scum. I feel like you're kind of setting me up here.

[VP Baltar]

This day has become WIFOM central. Here are basically the only facts anyone should be troubling themselves with:

1) VP has was forced to reveal he is a PT Cop in a gambit by Datisi, who claimed loyal neighborizer rather than tracker.
2) VP truthfully noted he visited George Bailey. (confirmed by hidden Billy track)
2) We believe scum have a rolecop and that's how they found Billy. That makes it extremely unlikely scum also have a PT cop.
3) VP has proven he is a PT cop by getting a false positive on hellbrooks.
4) VP has claimed a guilty on Koba.
5) Koba and VP have voted each other without a hammer, therefore one of them must be scum.

I'm trying to present the above facts as unbiased as I can, so people can see how ridiculous it is to think Koba is not scum in this situation.

[Raya36]

Official Vote Count 4.01

Opuntia cylindrica cristata "Emerald Idol"

---

Elimination

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to eliminate someone.

DkKoba

(1): VP Baltar

VP Baltar

(1): DkKoba

Alduskkel

(1): Andresvmb

Not Voting

(4): hellbooks, NoPowerOverMe, Iconeum, Alduskkel

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-09-02 09:45:00).

Mod notes:

[/area]

[Andresvmb]

Just out of curiosity, how can you claim your summary is completely unbiased, when I have a vote that’s been sitting on another player for hours, and the game hasn’t ended yet, and you don’t mention it

at all

? In fact, that player does NOT want to face me in a 1v1 because they don’t think they can come out on top, as they themselves admit. How is Alduskkel ever Town here? And that player happened to survive a key and close vote with Testa, who was Town? Just clarify that for me.

[Andresvmb]

The Testa wagon clearly contained Scum, and most likely 2 of the Scum if not the entire Team. VPB and DkKoba were both on it. I wasn’t. How is it not easier to decide between Aldus/Me versus Koba/VPB?

[VP Baltar]

How is Alduskkel ever Town here?

If you are scum.

Look, you can go on all day about whatever you want, a 1v1 between you and Aldus is not a better bet than a 1v1 between myself and Koba. You can stop trying to convince me of it. I have a guilty, we are voting there.

[Andresvmb]

The idea that I’m setting up a Town player is absurd. C’mon, you can at least admit it. It doesn’t make any sense. If I’m Scum, then surely Alduskkel is Town and NPOM probably too. How is it not easier for me to bus DkKoba if they’re my Partner, have VPB NK’ed, and not try and sway a Town vote onto NPOM for example in what is STILL ELo?

[Andresvmb]

Yes it is a better bet. You’re just not being objective because you are in the 1v1. There’s never been any serious voting action around you or DkKoba. All we have is your word. We have had serious voting action around my slot and Alduskkel. It’s all there man.

[VP Baltar]

Yes it is a better bet. You’re just not being objective because you are in the 1v1. There’s never been any serious voting action around you or DkKoba. All we have is your word. We have had serious voting action around my slot and Alduskkel. It’s all there man.

All we have is my word?

There are literally multiple times I've proven my claim. You admit yourself I am a PT cop. There is no way in hell scum have a PT cop AND a role cop vs. 2 masons and a tracker.

There are clear events beyond my word people can look to, which are more reliable than any voting record business.

[Andresvmb]

There are clear events that establish that a PT Cop exists. There are no clear cut events that establish that the PT Cop is Town. This distinction is obvious to me. And if you are Town, you know we still have to make the decision I am trying to force today. That’s also evident. You seem mighty opposed to a situation that is inevitable even if you’re check is correct. Why?

[Andresvmb]

^your check*

[Alduskkel]

i love how at this point in game we're lowkey pointing at any interaction between unconfirmed players and going "is this scum theater?" (imagine the meme of a dude pointing at a butterfly)

this has been your local Town Mason not being helpful

[Alduskkel]

but yeah i don't feel like talking with a confscum and a probscum rn lol

[VP Baltar]

There are clear events that establish that a PT Cop exists. There are no clear cut events that establish that the PT Cop is Town. This distinction is obvious to me. And if you are Town, you know we still have to make the decision I am trying to force today. That’s also evident. You seem mighty opposed to a situation that is inevitable even if you’re check is correct. Why?

Because I know I'm right. There are no doubts. Why would I ever take your side in that?

And yes, there are events that point to me being town...namely that scum clearly had a targeted kill of Billy. The game balance would be so far off kilter if scum had two investigative roles to the town's one.

Generally speaking, when all things are equal role wise, scum are considered to have the advantage given they already have information.

A setup of:
2 vanilla masons
1 Mason tracker
VTs

Vs.
1 goon
1 scum rolecop
1 PT cop

is wildly out of balance for scum and would never pass review.


Compared to a setup of:
2 vanilla masons
1 Mason tracker
1 PT cop

Vs.
1 goon
1 scum rolecop
1 ??? (Possible weak power here? Probably depends on reviewer preference)

which actually makes sense from a balance perspective given the second town investigative role has an equal chance of helping town or scum.

[Andresvmb]

So all your arguments are setup based? I also know I’m right - I have a vote down. It’s not a good enough argument, I’m sorry. The clear and targeted kill of Billy clears you how exactly?

[Andresvmb]

Listen I’m done engaging in this back and forth - it’s pointless. Ico and Hellbooks can decide what they want to do.

[Andresvmb]

It should also go without saying that once Hellbooks (in particular) and Ico have jointly decided which 1v1 to solve, they let others vote first.

[NoPowerOverMe]

Hell I get but not ico.

[DkKoba]

catch me being paranoid that andres x aldu is scum theater.

andres can u link me any games where u make big shlong plays as town bc i wanna be sure ur not just doing a gambit thats safer for scum LOOL

[DkKoba]

aldu can u explain your thought process throughout this game to me. i have u marked as prob scum but i have not actually engaged u as much as i should have(merely reading u based on what ive witnessed)

[Andresvmb]

Actually, I do have a game where I tried a gambit as Town that worked. I’ll find it.

[DkKoba]

also if u said u played on epicmafia ever before thatd be enough evidence for me bc that shits common to do as town on there (myself included)