Open 86 - Lovers Multiball (Game Over)

[charter]

@ icemanE, cerebus3, OpposedForce, charter, & Cephrir

why are/aren't you still voting for Crazy?

Crazy seems the most suspicious to me. With his flip flopping on basically everything this game.

[Adel]

thanks charter.

@ icemanE, cerebus3, OpposedForce,

charter

, & Cephrir

why are/aren't you still voting for Crazy?

icemanE, cerebus3, OpposedForce & Cephrir?

[Raffles]

It looks like my reading to catch up seems to have no end, so I'll start posting here. I don't find Crazy's switch of camp too suspicious on it's own. But Crazy also implied that he knew of this scumtell, just that didn't realize it's potential. That doesn't sit well with me.

[ThAdmiral]

did you know that I've won 12 out of 18 games as town since mini 515?

how has your record been since that game?

I actually don't keep track. I'd imagine it would be a bit over 50% just like yours.

By the way, it may not sound like it but I generally like your maths equations and statistics. Unlike (seemingly) most other people.



@crazy: don't like the self vote/talk of suicide. It's bad enough in a normal game, but if you really are town you are dragging down a partner with you.
I also don't like the seeming last ditch effort to get iceman to reveal his tell (post 256).

vote: crazy

[destructor]

.::] Vote Count [::.

Erratus Apathos (1)

- Firestarter

Crazy (9)

- icemanE, cerebus3, OpposedForce, charter, Adel, Cephrir, Erratus Apathos, sekinj, pwnz

Raging Rabbit (1)

- dybeck

IcemanE (2)

- Raging Rabbit, farside22

sekinj (1)

- Alabaska J

Raffles (1)

- DarlaBlueEyes

OpposedForce (1)

- SleepyPanda

Alabaska J (1)

- ThAdmiral

pwnz (1)

- neko2086

Not Voting (6) - Harvey Pew, pacman281292, Raffles, WaltWishbone, somestrangeflea, Crazy

Thirteen

votes to lynch.

[Adel]

5. You must

Unvote

before placing another vote.

Any votes placed without unvoting first will not be counted

.

ah, this would be the rule that explains why Crazy is stil at 9 votes.

[SleepyPanda]

@crazy: don't like the self vote/talk of suicide. It's bad enough in a normal game, but if you really are town you are dragging down a partner with you.
I also don't like the seeming last ditch effort to get iceman to reveal his tell (post 256).

vote: crazy

I agree with Admiral here. The self-vote is what confuses me most.

In another game I was in with Crazy, he criticizes someone for self-voting and says how anti-town that move is, but here he's doing the exact same thing. In that same game, he was the leading candidate for the lynch and he uses the defense that if he were actually scum, would he be fighting so hard to stay alive? In that game, he was of town alignment. Here, he's doing the exact opposite by voting for himself and basically giving up.

Crazy, you're also saying that it wouldn't be fair to farside if you get lynched since she's your lover, but a few posts later, you vote yourself. Does that make it more fair? You then go on to ask, retorically I assume, if you can quote mod PMs to get yourself lynched faster. I'm almost certain you already understand that if you are of town alignment, doing things like this doesn't help you or the town in any way, so it makes absolutely no sense to me why you're doing so.

Unvote, Vote: Crazy

Regarding farside, she agrees with Crazy on massclaim, votes iceman together, uses chainsaw defense on OF (even when Crazy said it sucks) when OF votes Crazy. I understand they're lovers, but they're almost in complete agreement with each other on everything. That seems more like scum play to me. Even if you're paired as lovers, I'd expect to see some conflict of opinion. Maybe it's just coincidence and they really are meant for each other, but I'm leaning towards the former.

[Adel]

In another game I was in with Crazy...

link please.

[Crazy]

In another game I was in with Crazy, he criticizes someone for self-voting and says how anti-town that move is, but here he's doing the exact same thing. In that same game, he was the leading candidate for the lynch and he uses the defense that if he were actually scum, would he be fighting so hard to stay alive? In that game, he was of town alignment. Here, he's doing the exact opposite by voting for himself and basically giving up.

You're taking that way out of context. That game was in lylo. And besides, it's still ongoing, you know, and the

person I was accusing is still alive in the game!

My self-vote was due to immense frustration. Nhat's wasn't.

[Crazy]

I also don't like the seeming last ditch effort to get iceman to reveal his tell (post 256).

He said himself it won't harm town if he lets it out. But, still I wish for Iceman to reveal his tell at least some time before Adel reveals hers.

[SleepyPanda]

In another game I was in with Crazy, he criticizes someone for self-voting and says how anti-town that move is, but here he's doing the exact same thing. In that same game, he was the leading candidate for the lynch and he uses the defense that if he were actually scum, would he be fighting so hard to stay alive? In that game, he was of town alignment. Here, he's doing the exact opposite by voting for himself and basically giving up.

You're taking that way out of context. That game was in lylo. And besides, it's still ongoing, you know, and the

person I was accusing is still alive in the game!

My self-vote was due to immense frustration. Nhat's wasn't.

Meh, I probably shouldn't have mentioned it since it's still ongoing, but I was making observations on only your play. Everything I've mentioned has already happened so I don't see how it would affect current gameplay.

Still, just to be on the safe side, ignore the points when I reference another game in my last post. My vote for Crazy is because of the self-vote and the farside paragraph still stands.

[Crazy]

Yeah, self-voting is scummy; I'd have to agree with that. Sorry, I just get really frustrated when I'm town and a lot of people want me dead (as you've seen twice, Panda.)

[OpposedForce]

Doing a re-read.
Post coming up

[icemanE]

Well, I'm back from work.

I'm going to take another look at farside shortly to evaluate everything she's said so far based on her belief that if one member of a scumteam is lynched, they all die, and see if anything looks different under that light.

why are/aren't you still voting for Crazy?

There are many more reasons to be voting for Crazy than there are reasons not to be. Why do you ask? Have you seen something which you believe should dissuade me from voting him? I most certainly haven't - in fact, everything that's happened SINCE crazy found out he was wrong about his scumtell has been what's convinced me he's scum.

[cerebus3]

thanks charter.

@ icemanE, cerebus3, OpposedForce,

charter

, & Cephrir

why are/aren't you still voting for Crazy?

icemanE, cerebus3, OpposedForce & Cephrir?

Gah, I keep going back and forth on this.

His scum-tell was a flop, but scum-crazy would have really had to pull that out of the nowhere don't you think?

That really depends on whether he saw the notice at the beginning of adding daytalking. If he didn't see it, I just don't know where scum-crazy would even come up with such an idea. It is possible that he saw Adel hint at a scum-tell and came up with this as scum, I guess.

If he did see it, then it becomes a question of whether scum crazy would actually come up with a scum tell that he knew would not work. The fact that he deliberated with farside about the scum tell means that maybe they could come up with it together.

As town, both he AND farside would have to have missed the notice that daytalking was added for everyone late though...

If crazy didn't know about that post, then scum-crazy would have to come up with that out of thin air, and if he did know about the post, then he would have come up with a plan to suggest a crappy scum-tell that he knew would not work in order to confuse people, which his posts do not seem that thought out.

I am confused, but it looks like it points at town crazy.... Am I over thinking this?

Take away the whole scum tell shenanigans, and crazy seems really scummy to me though, Voting for yourself is anti-town, and when confronted with a wagon, what does he do? He declares that he shall lurk on purpose.

Gah....

How many votes are on crazy right now?

[icemanE]

One thing I noticed that throws me off a bit is farside and crazy's interaction on the seventh page. We know now that they're lovers, and have been communicating via their daytalk thread. As such, I find this quite strange:

Can you explain why you go from saying Adel shouldn't have brought up anything to calling her possible scum for the tell then voting crazy for saying he knows what the claim is? Was he the only one to say such a thing? You seem in your own post to indicate you know what it means. I think your vote is hypocritical.

Why would a lover, who could just as easily coach in the daytalk forum, say something like THIS to her lover in the game thread? I'm not saying that I doubt they're lovers, but I AM saying this looks a lot like distancing. I just can't possibly imagine why a townie would want to distance in this type of game.

On the farside thinking all 4 scum die issue I said I was going to examine - nothing earthshaking uncovered, but her early posts make a lot more sense with that info in mind.

[OpposedForce]

My thoughts on Crazy

Iceman, the following quotes show that you have no idea what we're talking about.

Yes to what adel implied. I would have preferred to keep it less obvious by sort of dancing around it a bit more, but it should work regardless.

Right - it's possible that from other similar games, she knows the tell, meaning she could be scum this game too.

You are pretending to see this scum-tell that Adel mentioned. I don't believe town would do that.

Unvote, Vote IcemanE

Here he accuses IcemanE of not seeing Adel's scumtell and accuses him of being anti-town when he himself didn't even fully know the scumtell.

I am about 90% sure Adel is town. I am about equally sure Iceman is scum. This post I quoted a second ago really settles it:

In previous posts he had defended Adel and buddied up to her even stating that she was confirmed town but in truth it's almost impossible to get a confirmed alignment from one statement because there are so many things to put into consideration. From this kind of thinking he accuses Iceman of being scum as he believes Adel is confirmed town so he accuses Iceman of being scum because he didn't see the scumtell.

Knowing a scumtell has nothing to do with alignment.

Holy crap, you mean I didn't know what you were talking about? Okay, so now I know nothing about your alignment

.

Then it appears that I have a scumtell of my own, then, the one that I've been referring to this whole time. That coincidentally also would work better without a mass-claim and is something that scum would have no idea of. I suggest keeping me alive until Day 3/4 at least so I can reveal what it is. K? If I don't have anything then, you can lynch me. Really, what's the harm in this unless you're scum?

In this post he suddenly comes to terms that he had no real knowledge of the supposed scumtell. In his previous posts he had been attacking and pressuring Iceman for not realizing the scumtell and using his thoughts of Adel being confirmed town and using that agaisnt Iceman.

He proclaims that he had also held a scumtell of his own which "

concidentally

" would work without a massclaim the same as Adel's. In my opinion he came up with this bull claim of withhelding a scumtell of his own at the last second because he knew that he had been wrong about Adel's scumtell so he did this to try to get him out of the spotlight and out of a lynch so it was a gamble to see if anyone would buy it so nobody would lynch him hence why he had said to wait until later in the day so to see if anyone would buy it.

Unvote
Vote Crazy

Lynch me. When I turn up as town, please look at the people who are on my bandwagon with craplogic.

I don't like this. Voting for yourself is suicidal and idiotic. Even if your town then voting yourself to put you closer to a lynch will not only hurt the town but you kill your partner as well. The least you can do is keep a cool head and defend yourself with your own arugement. I see two sides to this either frustrated townie or frustrated scum. With his previous actions I'm leaning towards scum.

In a sum-up he has been OMGUSY evident when he voted Iceman because Iceman had pressured him with evidence and hypocritical for voting a person because they didn't know a certian tell but ironically didn't have full knowledge of the tell either. Also using an arguement including how a person is confirmed town because of one post is foolish and useless. My vote stands.

[Raging Rabbit]

All crazy voters -

Do you believe, like OF, that Crazy knew his "daytalk tell" wasn't valid all along, and just made it up when pressured in order for to look like he made a honest mistake? If not, why are you voting him?

[dybeck]

If I were going to vote Crazy, it would be more about the self-vote than the "daytalk" stuff.

[Raging Rabbit]

But you have to believe he was making the daytalk stuff up if you think he's scum, otherwise he can't be.

[icemanE]

But you have to believe he was making the daytalk stuff up if you think he's scum, otherwise he can't be.

Why?

[Crazy]

But you have to believe he was making the daytalk stuff up if you think he's scum, otherwise he can't be.

Why?

If I was scum, how would I think that the daytalk scum-tell would work for town? Either I made it up, or I'm town.

[icemanE]

If I was scum, how would I think that the daytalk scum-tell would work for town? Either I made it up, or I'm town.

I don't understand this. Why

wouldn't

you think of the daytalk tell as scum?

[Crazy]

If I was scum, how would I think that the daytalk scum-tell would work for town? Either I made it up, or I'm town.

I don't understand this. Why

wouldn't

you think of the daytalk tell as scum?

I could only have thought of it if I knew it would fail, right? Because it relied on the scum not knowing about it. And if I was scum and knew about it, then I was faking it.

[icemanE]

I could only have thought of it if I knew it would fail, right? Because it relied on the scum not knowing about it. And if I was scum and knew about it, then I was faking it.

I still think it's equally plausible for you to come up with that tell and be scum. You wouldn't have to know it would fail - but you'd have to know it would be ineffective for you, which doesn't mean it wouldn't be effective for the town. However, you could still easily have beaten your own tell by coming up with a fake conversation for your daytalk, so no, you wouldn't have to to know it would fail, and you were obviously hoping to keep it secret until at least day 3 either way.