SSW III: Game over

[Jebus]

I'm quite sure I said three, but if I did say two, that was a typo. It is, in fact, three (3).

Vote count

(10 players alive = 6 to lynch before deadline)
(3) donkeyz12212 –SpyreX, Jebus, Lord Gurgi
(2) Septia – farside22, donkeyz12212
(1) Jebus – Cass
(1) Cass – Porkens

Not voting:

cerebus3, raider8169, Septia

Deadline:

Saturday 9 August 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[SpyreX]

Good LORD, gone one day and... explode.

@Cass:

Ok, for starters. Yes, See, You and Be are common words. Look at those posts, especially the Be that I had to damn force in there.

As for why I think you and Gurgi are town (I think I've said this before):

1.) We were given the same role.
2.) There ARE two cubs.
3.) LG and I obviously, from the way the last couple days played out, have the same role PM in relation to win condition (which, to me, implies a copy paste).

The third really makes me think Gurgi is town. If you remember that whole village / wolf pack debacle, Gurgi, like me, had village (keep in mind that this happened before any claims). Of course, Gurgi had a WTF moment when -I- claimed she wolf because we had no idea there were two.

Now, when you add that in with the fact I DID breadcrumb the damn role before anyone knew they existed, yes, I believe him. Notice all I asked you is if you were mod-confirmed because that, to me, also clears Gurgi.

Now I said that if someone doesn't believe us (even though I do), shooting you makes sense - you being scum, to me, means that one of us has to be scum. Shooting either LG or I either means the target dies and a 50% chance you die OR we've shot the one that was Grimmy's mother and nothing is known really about the alignment of the other.

Yes, killing you if we're both scum in some amazing precognitive gambit doesn't clear us, but hell, I dont know what to tell you.

KEEP IN MIND I BELIEVE BOTH OF YOU. I do not endorse your lynch today at all. The claims make sense and, knowing my role, the only way either of you are scum is if both of you are scum and, with farside, that would mean you are both black wolves.

Ohh, also, I thought this was clear. I am a one-way lover. Of COURSE it is one sided.

Although, a few questions:

Why, if it doesn't clear either of us, are you going after me far more than LG?
Why, of course, did you assume it was ALL scum on Donkey's wagon?
How would lynching the Alpha, if he was telling the truth, get us the win?
Why would there be 6 scum total in the game?
Why would the black wolves have 4 members, the town two AND your lynch choice being of the smaller group?

@Donkey

Seriously. Be less scummy.

But, with all this, for right now I think you just may, honestly, type before you think.

Of course, with Jebus's claim, I, again: repeat what I said:

If Jebus does NOT say he is the Alpha Wolf, I would say lynch Raider. If, of course, Raider is scum, tomorrow is Donkey's lynch.

Of course, for this "how could I know Cass' role?" If you are a scum rolecop, yes, yes you could.

Regardless, you're now NOT the lynch for today.

@Cerebus

Why, if donkey is town, are me, LG and Jebus scum?

@Jebus

I know I've made some retarded typos, but two into three? Lord.

Now, this is some ModIFOM, but I dont think I've seen a Joat that has multi of not one, but two abilites and THREE vig shots. And, yet, no night actions used.

But, anywho - to the crux of the matter today.

Who to Lynch:

We've got multiple players with some odd conflicts and some in-fighting AND, of course, connections. So, we've got a few different areas to explore.

1.) The She-Wolf Conundrum
a. I believe the She-Wolf Claims
- If you believe both the She-Wolves, we are all good.
-- If you are not sure, but think that LG and I are linked and not prescient, lynch Cass.
--- If you think I am prescient scum, lynch me.
b.)I believe only one of the She-Wolves is telling the truth.
- LG can NOT be a human unless Farside is lying. He is either town or black wolf. If not thinking black wolf, lynch SpyreX
- I breadcrumbed it before anything, so, again, unless I am prescient, LG is the lynch.
c.) I believe neither of the She-Wolves:
- Lynch either of us. At that point it doesn't really matter. If Cass doesn't die, you have to lynch the other. At which point, I believe, you'll be down 3 town!

2.) Alpha Wolf / Alpha Wolf Protector / Wolven Hero Dancing Time
a.) I believe both all three are telling the truth.
- Dance in the dancing place, because I really dont think any of us think that.
b.) I think one of Jebus / Donkey is lying.
- Lynch Raider. If Raider is town, Donkey is most likely town and Jebus has a huge amount of suspicion. If Raider is scum, Donkey IS scum.
c.) I think they're all lying.
- Kill them all, let god sort it out.

3.) Our Beloved Princess
a.) I think she is scum and I believe at least TWO of the power roles.
- If you're sure of scum, lynch. If you are NOT sure, I would suggest multi-investigations tonight.
b.) I think she is town.
- She's dead, rl soon. Our watcher has been used, so I'm not sure what to do.

So, again. I dont think Septia is the right lynch. It is too much risk for too little reward.

Really, it should be either the she-wolf setup OR the alpha-wolf triangle. I, right now, believe the she-wolf setup. If its in the alpha-wolf triangle Raider is the correct lynch, especially since we CAN NOT lose Donkey unless he is lying. Regardless, we lose a dubious power role and, if it is Donkey and Raider as scum, do NOT lose a really powerful power role.

P.S. Jebus, I swear to god you better shoot SOMEONE tonight.

Unvote: Vote Raider

[cerebus3]

post 844

If jebus is scum, then that means that donkeyz and raider are probably telling the truth. that leaves, if there is one scum group, septia, spyreX, and lord gurgi as possible scum. since I don't there is a 5 person scum group and I don't think either SpyreX and Lord gurgi being scum without the other one bieng scum, I don't see septia being paired with jeebus. This leads me to conclude that if there is one scum group and jebus is scum that SpyreX and Lord Gurgi are his scum buddies.

If donkeyz is town, I think Jebus is scum without a doubt.

[SpyreX]

Ohh, and if you REALLY dont believe the She-wolves:

LG has been confirmed as "not-human", so, if he turns up human we have a lying cop. If he turns up scum, I am more suspect. If Cass dies on his lynch, I am more town.

I've spearheaded lynches on D1 and D2. The one lynch I didn't spearhead was, actually a wolf. From that I would be more suspect. If Cass dies on my lynch, LG is more town. If I am scum, LG is more suspect.

So, there ya go.

[Lord Gurgi]

It seems like we've gotten to the point where we're debating the order of our lynch. At this point I think that two of Jebus/Raider/Donkey are scum. So, for the purposes of being more informed I am switching my vote.

Unvote, Vote; Raider

.

[Porkens]

It seems like we've gotten to the point where we're debating the order of our lynch. At this point I think that two of Jebus/Raider/Donkey are scum. So, for the purposes of being more informed I am switching my vote. Unvote, Vote; Raider.

Agreed. Why do we need a alpha doctor if the alpha is BP (i know this has been brought up but...)

unvote, Vote: Raider

[Cass]

I would prefer to lynch a scum today

Spyrex, I'm willing to assume you are honest for now. I'm less sure of Gurgi. He has seemed scummy to me for a long time and he's really buddying up to you now. He could easily have copied your claim, it wasn't hard to conclude there were two cubs. Yes, this would make him either a black wolf or Farsides buddy.

Lynches I can see for today:

-

Jebus.

I prefer this one muchly, because I'm

convinced

he's scum (upping the number of vigs, so he can get away with NK-ing until the end?). Keeping my vote on him.

-

Gurgi.

This potentially risks my own life, and even if he flips mafia, would that prove anything about me or Spyrex? Not really, I think. If he flips human, it implicates Farside. Less than optimal lynch.

-

Septia.

I think she's scum, but lynching her is risky. I'd rather see her confirmed some other way.

-

Raider.

Hype of the day. I don't want it, because I believe his claim. He's not just an Alpha-doc, he's also an Alpha-finder. And that makes a lot of sense to me. I am, of course, assuming that Donkey is real. I do not want to lynch a townie to confirm a townie, when we can also lynch scum... (Don't forget night can also confirm some of us.)
I do not quite trust those who want the Alpha less protected. Remember the BP is one-shot only. BattleMage probably had that as well, and he died night two...

[Cass]

@Gurgi:

Cass, this guy keeps pulling new powers out of his nether regions, and it's either some of the most horrible play I've ever seen as town, or some of the most horrible play I've ever seen as scum. So far I'm thinking that he's trying to make himself as horrible to lynch on the slight chance he isn't lying as he can.

True, and it looks quite bad. But on the other hand, if he was scum, wouldn't he just have claimed Alpha from the start, without stumbling? Besides, Jebus does the same thing... and Donkey is at least trying, as opposed to Jebus, who seems to be lurking through this day (some hero...)

Cass, the reason that I am refusing to consider your logic is that it is formulated on the foundation of SpyreX and myself being scum. Not formulated based on evidence then coming to that conclusion.
Also, I am going to spell this out once and for all. Cass is only a confirmed mason, not confirmed pro-town. I can't say why Cass is taking this as a reason to go insane.

Assuming someone is scum and reasoning from that assumption is by no means insane at this point of the game. In fact, everyone is doing it... And no, I am not confirmed pro-town... but if I am mafia, wouldn't my mommy be in the mafia too? (Btw, my win condition says 'village'.)

Cass, I can't point out where your logic goes wrong, because there isn't any to begin with, you accuse us of being scum because you don't buy our claim, and yet on the next page you accuse me of lying because SpyreX was bread crumbing and I wasn't. That's a blatant conflict.
Consider this from the mod's perspective, do you tell the masons that there are two other town roles? Why not after all, the only downside is the possibility of 4 connected, confirmed, pro-town roles. Can you come up with a single feasible reason that you would be told of the existence of the She-wolf(s)?

Denying I'm logical feels like OMGUS, coming from you. I am still considering all options. My first instinct was the tow of you were in this together. Then I considered that he's always been much less scummy than you, so perhaps you are scum buddying to him. He has breadcrumbing evidence, making his claim stronger. If I'd lynch one of you, it would be you. There's no conflict, I'm just not tunnelvisioning.
Maybe gamebalance-wise it'd make no sense to tell us, but flavour-wise I would expect at least a hint. (Though perhaps the hint was to have been when one of us suddenly died :p )

She said I was not human. And that logic is easily derailed by any number of factors, including you being non-human scum.

This is the first big town-tell I got from you

She uses conflicting logic, specifically she says she doesn't believe Spyrex and Myself's claim, and then says she doesn't believe mine because I didn't bread crumb like SpyreX. I would like her to comment on the recent formation of a wagon on her.

Not conflicting logic, just various lines of reasoning. As you do (unless you're scum...) Yes, I believe Spyrex' claim more than yours, I already explained why. I hardly see a wagon on me. One vote? (Or was it two?) I liked how short-lived it was I think lynching me would be bad, because whatever I flip (and I promise I'll flip exactly what Grimmy flipped), it confirms nothing and nobody and we're a townie down.

[Cass]

@Septia & Jebus: what was the flavour that came with your role? Who do you think we should lynch, and why?

[Lord Gurgi]

Didn't you say your PM says that your mothers don't pay much attention to you or something, it's a stretch, but I suppose the mod might have thought it was strong enough, without being confirmation, that is.

[Cass]

Sorry for the monologue, people, trying to keep things a bit ordered.

cerebus3 wrote:
Why not septia?

Septia's claim wasn't quite a power role, but it's like lynching a power role. If (s)he dies, the maf get two kills, instead of one.

How interesting that you explain Septia's role for her. How come you know the mechanism behind it so well?

2nd) What's the difference between watching and tracking?

You can track yourself... and you don't know what it does? Odd. I'd think you would have asked the mod by now, or looked at the wiki, or, you know, read the game...

My role name is Wolven Hero

Huh, I'd expect it to be

Werewolf

hero. Actually, I expect it to be

Human

hero...

@ Septia accusation - I'm a little scared to call his bluff (or truth as it may be), I may end up using my rolecop/tracker on him/her.

Just posting this here to look at later.

I'm also on the fence about Raider and Cerebus.
Cass's roleclaim could be vital, and after (s)he claims, I'll explain.

I don't think you ever did?

His original claim:

I'm a wolven hero whose taken it upon myself to rid the town of scum, aka a vig/jack-of-all-trades. In my role, it said specifically that I notice, including humans, there is another rival wolf clan circling the area. Clan = cult, I'm guessing.
So humans or the black-back clan (as the most recent nk has shown) are the regular mafia and the other is a cult. There's also the possibility that their night-kill abilities switch off.

He's the only one who had something about rival wolves in his role pm. The he starts specualting about cult. Something feels wrong about this whole post, but I can't quite put my finger on it. i also dislike how he isn't convinced Donkey is scum, yet supports his lynch. Pushes it, even. This was still early in the day.

So, yes, I'm happy about my vote on Jebus.

[Cass]

Didn't you say your PM says that your mothers don't pay much attention to you or something, it's a stretch, but I suppose the mod might have thought it was strong enough, without being confirmation, that is.

Yes, perhaps. As I said, I don't want to lynch you or Spyrex today. I'll drop the case until tomorrow when we might know more; there's at least one better lynch now.

[raider8169]

Wow I guess Im not the lynch for the day. Im of course not a fan of it.

Porkens, why are you just jumping on everything SpyreX does? You have changed your vote just as much as he has and have been following him all day. As I assume Im a goner so everyone look at this for tomorrow. These are scummy actions to me. Also how long do you think it would take me to find one person in this game before they are NK'd. With the BP that would stop one night kill and I think the idea is for people to die at night so for me to perminitly protect would be too much power as if we didnt claim the scum would of lost a kill and either kept trying or look elsewhere.


SpyreX, you keep changing who is the lynch for the day and granted you have faithful followers I hope you are town otherwise it should be an easy game for you to win. Killing me removes protection from the Alpha. All you do with my death is confirm the Alpha but not even then as I have not investigated him so please reconsider the information you can get from it. I say let me investigate tonight, report tomorrow and then when I go out you have some information.

Right now I think a Septia or a Jebus are good lynches. Though I still wish to hear from Septia.

[Cass]

Septia: She went aggressively after Wall-E from the moment she came in, calling him mafia numerous times. Doesn't talk about anything or anyone else for a while.
Thinks Porkens is not suspicious. Votes Coheed for being oportunistic.

And like I said, Wall-E is probably the scummiest innocent I've ever seen. And I didn't just hop on a bandwaggon, I was against his claim since I read it, which if I was indeed scum I most likely wouldn't put myself out there like that.

Weird conflicting logic in this quote. He was extremely scummy but if she was scum she wouldn't have acted like him? huh?

Two scum groups? Oh damn, we aren't in too good of a position if that is true.

Yes, the human heroes facing two wolf clans is bad for them indeed...

The massclaim idea seems like it could hurt town more than help it, but you guys probably know more than me. So if were going to do it I'm all for it.

Could be a sign she is honest, I'm not sure.

I'm the werewolf princess. After I die, day or night, the next day phase will be skipped.

This still doesn't sound convincing at all, and makes no sense in the context of this game.

We can't afford to make wrong lynches at this point. No matter what my role is, you would still be killing off an innocent.
I did what you guys told me to, I claimed. What about the others that didn't tell their roles? I'm going to be punished for followint the massclaim plan?

Huh? The first two sentence are just weird. Is she implying she lied about her role? How does she know we can't afford a mislynch?
And the second part is also very strange, as everyone had claimed by this point! And the last sentence sounds like a scum-tell to me... ('punished'? wth?)

Donkeyz has clearly been lying this whole time. Claiming like 10 different roles then finally the alpha wolf witch to me could also be a lie? there's only one way to find out.

And then votes him. Feels opportunistic to me.

I think Septia is a human with Jebus.

[Cass]

@Spyrex:

Our two Jack of all Trades: If your role specifically mentions two scum groups... WHY didn't you say anything?

QFT.

You investigated Cass and got her alignment AND role in one investigation?

Well, my role is werewolf cub (aka Mason), so it's not that strange. Could still be scum rolecop, of course.

Jebus
Reasons For Lynch
Duplication of a JoaT is hard to stomach. Say's pro raider lynch regardless of alignment. On top of Joat has 2 vig kills (strange). Has used no actions (parially blamed on Empking who, of course, was scummy).
Reasons Against Lynch
Ultimately, if Donkey is lynched and IS town, there isn't going to be room to hide. The Devil IS in the details and the addition of vig kills and nexus, to me, seems unnecessary as a scumclaim.

That's why I'm assuming he's a human hero (JoaT with nightkills...).

Notice all I asked you is if you were mod-confirmed because that, to me, also clears Gurgi. Now I said that if someone doesn't believe us (even though I do), shooting you makes sense - you being scum, to me, means that one of us has to be scum.

How does that clear Gurgi? There could still be only one she-wolf. There is also no way to prove right now that I'm mod-confirmed. And if I am a scum mason, why would that prove one of you is scum too?

Why, if it doesn't clear either of us, are you going after me far more than LG?
Why, of course, did you assume it was ALL scum on Donkey's wagon?
How would lynching the Alpha, if he was telling the truth, get us the win?
Why would there be 6 scum total in the game?
Why would the black wolves have 4 members, the town two AND your lynch choice being of the smaller group?

I am not, as far as I'm aware. I have always called Gurgi scummier.
Because I was then working with the theory that you two were a scum pair and wanted to off Donkey quickly... (Which would make sense!)
Because he's the one townie with (some) NK immunity, and thus the player the scum would want lynched first. As an added bonus, his death would make raider a vanilla.
I don't think I said that? Five was my highest estimate, I think. Right now, I thnik it's five or maybe four. (I don't even want to think about cults.)
I never said Black wolves have 4 members. Two or three is my guess. Lynching the smaller group is usually smart, for it might eliminate a nightkill for the rest of the game. One scumgroup is better than two.

[Jebus]

cerebus3 wrote:
Why not septia?

Septia's claim wasn't quite a power role, but it's like lynching a power role. If (s)he dies, the maf get two kills, instead of one.

How interesting that you explain Septia's role for her. How come you know the mechanism behind it so well?

Since I play with Princesses in mafia games often. You skip the next day phase. Lynching a princess is like offering the mafia that lynch, plus two more free kills. I don't know for sure that the mechanism behind this role is exactly the same, but I'd be willing to bet it is.

2nd) What's the difference between watching and tracking?

You can track yourself... and you don't know what it does? Odd. I'd think you would have asked the mod by now, or looked at the wiki, or, you know, read the game...

I know what tracking does, I just didn't know if there was a difference between that and watching. I don't have a watch, so that confusion didn't come up until just then -.-'''

My role name is Wolven Hero

Huh, I'd expect it to be

Werewolf

hero. Actually, I expect it to be

Human

hero...

Wolven and Werewolf are both wolf, its possible that could just be one of Joohono's synonyms, but it

does

say "Wolven"

I'm also on the fence about Raider and Cerebus.
Cass's roleclaim could be vital, and after (s)he claims, I'll explain.

I don't think you ever did?

That's because it proved not to be, and frankly, I forget now why it would have >.<

His original claim:

I'm a wolven hero whose taken it upon myself to rid the town of scum, aka a vig/jack-of-all-trades. In my role, it said specifically that I notice, including humans, there is another rival wolf clan circling the area. Clan = cult, I'm guessing.
So humans or the black-back clan (as the most recent nk has shown) are the regular mafia and the other is a cult. There's also the possibility that their night-kill abilities switch off.

He's the only one who had something about rival wolves in his role pm. The he starts specualting about cult. Something feels wrong about this whole post, but I can't quite put my finger on it. i also dislike how he isn't convinced Donkey is scum, yet supports his lynch. Pushes it, even. This was still early in the day.

I didn't think it relevant until that point, since the previous nk caused confusion. If I'd said it before, it would have been a mess :s

@ the bit about donkeyz: I'm now much more convinced that donkeyz is scum than I was at the beginning of the day, and since then I've gone back and read his posts at least twice. :/

[Jebus]

As for today's lynch, I'm not quite sure. Raider sounds good, for a little more than my personal dislike, but I'm still pretty much convinced donkeyz is the lynch for today.

Gah, I'm too confused >.<

[raider8169]

As for today's lynch, I'm not quite sure. Raider sounds good, for a little more than my personal dislike, but I'm still pretty much convinced donkeyz is the lynch for today.

Gah, I'm too confused >.<

Being confused is why I think we are going having a hard time finding scum. With the idea for the lynch ever changing plus we have people divided I can see scum hiding in there. If we are going to lynch based off roles then I think we have a less chance of finding scum. Scum can make up roles or base their roles of other people. Or just flat out make up roles that seem plauseable. Gratned at the same time we have people that can claim for other people but it seems we need more then 2 people to claim for someone else in order to increase the chance of being scum. Does this make sense, if not let me know and I can try to explain my idea better.

[Cass]

Hm, ok. If I assume two she-wolves and a cub (me), that's three townies, basically all vanillas, but with some added risk for town of losing two at a time. I'm also believing Donkey and raider. That's one big town power role, and a weak protector for that role.

The two players that look very scummy are Jebus and Septia. Lynchings and/or investigations urgently needed.

That leaves Farside, a claimed human-sniffer, and two vanillas: Cerebus & Porkens.

If

my first two paragraphs are true, I'd expect one or two scum among these three.

That would make a credible set-up, all in all. I still say we lynch Jebus, let Farside, raider and Donkey do their thing and move on based on the night results.

If anyone thinks this is a bad course of action, please explain to me why.

[donkeyz12212]

I'm fine with either a Septia or Jebus lynch at this point. They make the most sense from my perspective.

[farside22]

I'm fine with Septia. I still want to see if Jebus is telling the truth. Of course I will probably get killed tonight.
Donkey change your thing to track Jebus to see where she goes. Jebus tracks Jebus. I will check Jebus. That way one person will be shown as a liar in this situation about their ability.
Any one disagree?

[Jebus]

Here's the claimlist.

Cass

claims cub/mason.

Spyrex

&

Gurgi

claim she-wolf.

Porkens

&

Cerebus

claim townie.

Septia

claims princess.

Jebus

claims wolven hero (JOAT).

Donkeyz

claims Alpha-wolf (JOAT).

Raider

claims a-w protector.

farside

claims cop.

-If what's been said about she-wolves being one-way lovers who commit suicide when their cub dies, then the multiple she-wolf idea can be justified, assuming Gurgi or Spyrex suicides today.
-As said, flavour for the princess role has not been confirmed.
-Me and donkeyz both claim similar JOAT roles.

Scenario 1: We lynch donkeyz.
-If donkeyz is scum, we may have Cass and Raider as scum, as well.
-If donkeyz is townie, I most likely die.

Scenario 2: We lynch Septia.
-If septia is a princess, townies lose a day phase, and will probably need a scum-kill to win.
-If septia = scum, I'm not sure where we go from there.

Scenario 3: We lynch Raider.
-If Raider is scum, we try donkeyz.
-If Raider is town, I most likely die.


I think we should probably play it safe and go for a non-power lynch. For night actions, go with a sort of circle-type thing.

farside investigates me.
I rolecop donkeyz, and track raider.
Donkeyz tracks farside.

Sound good?

[farside22]

I think Donkey should track Jebus to see that you do what you say. Everything else looks good to me.

[cerebus3]

Ok, deadline is looming. We really need to reach a consensus. I think septia is the correct lynch. The role does not make sense, and he looks pretty scummy. I think giving Jebus and donkeyz a chance to confirm themselves is the best move.

vote: septia

Jebus, what do you think about donkeyz by the way? I don't remember you ever saying anything about it.

[cerebus3]

Notice that jeebus says he can do more than one thing a night.