Mature Mafia: Game Over

[Talitha]

Hmm, I still think there's probably 3 scum, but Werebear's reasoning has got me considering the possibility there's only 2.

I don't think the idea that the scum accidentally killed 2 players instead of one on night 2 is very likely... so I'm going to assume there is a vig who has only killed once.

If I were modding, I would have thought 3 scum plus 11 town including a vig was balanced enough. I think a vig IS a valuable player - if the vig kills thoughtfully each night, it's like a double lynch for the town.

Which brings me to an important point. If we don't lynch scum today, the vig MUST kill. If there are 3 scum and the vig doesn't take one out, we lose. If there are two scum, we haven't really lost anything if the vig hits town.

[armlx]

I think a vig IS a valuable player - if the vig kills thoughtfully each night, it's like a double lynch for the town.

QFT this. Someone beat me to the punch.

[logicticus]

We are almost certainly in a Lynch or Lose Situation.

I cant imagine the setup was 12/2.

The adel/tally exchange on the last page was pretty interesting imo. Both of them looked pretty genuine in it, although I do wonder if adel really expected to get a scumtell out of it.

Adel, did you have a certain expectation of a kind of scumtell you would get, or were you just hoping for the best?

[Adel]

Adel, did you have a certain expectation of a kind of scumtell you would get, or were you just hoping for the best?

I did have a certain expectation, but I was mostly hoping for the best.

[armlx]

The adel/tally exchange on the last page was pretty interesting imo. Both of them looked pretty genuine in it, although I do wonder if adel really expected to get a scumtell out of it.

I'm reminded of Adel's WTF behavior in House Mafia, the only other game I played with her.

[nonny]

Here it is, very long and I beieve through. Didn't take almost anything out unless it was already answered.

Thoughts as reading the game, some things I edited out since they no longer apply. Sorry if somethings seem choppy.

Wanted a list of everyones cliamed duties
Zu_Faul: none(assumed)
Elvis:

Executioner. When one player reaches majority for lynch, I PM them and they must immediately self-reveal in thread.

Coron: Vote Counts (see his post 1)
Cam: (351)

Claim: I'm the replacer.

Raj: (410) no mod job
Adel: (420) no mod job
Logic: (435)

Anyway, my mod claim is that I am the thread locker and unlocker.

Glork:(431) no mod job
Axelrod: (432)

I am the Player List Maintainer. I keep the first post updated.

Talitha: (442)

I'm the Deadliner.

DGB:(446) no mod job
Pooky: (448)

I am the Prodder. I get to prod people who are neglecting the game.

Phoebus: (449)

Post cleaner. Tags and double posts.

Macros: (455)

yes, the death post alterer would be most happy with a deadline.

Adel was the first person to start "test editing" her posts in the game, even after voting DGB and accusing her of editing zu's post.

Note: zu's post has changed again, what is the point of this?

Rules:
You all know how this works.

perhaps we can write the rules ourselves?

We all have moderated games beofre, we do know how this works.

Adel, I feel like you are trying to lead us astray. Even if we took valuable time and posts to write out the rules, whos there to enforce them? The mod is an omnipotent being in the thread who has more knowledge and is thus able to enforce everything, we all have limited knowledge and nobody could enforce any ruleset that we made.

Adel do you still believe we need strict rules? Or do you think the ame has been going well with out?

Anyone else get the irony of glork editing logic's post saying "no one should edit posts" I still find it a little funny..../random

@Adel: I am with logicticus here, proposing "rules" that we all agree to follow is completely worthless. If the scum if this game are being allowed to make significant edits to other player's posts, including death reveal posts (which destroys the integrity of the game in my opinion), then why would they stop because you proposed a rule?

At this point only poeple apposed to setting up rules are axelrod, logicticus. Later on macros, coron, and raj are against as well.

Logic and axel are pursueing raj's "hyperbole" hunch explaination

People who seem as okay as you can seem considering it's only 83 posts into the game:

logicticus
elvis_knits
Talitha

I don't like that there is no exlaination for this list. And no prompting for it eiter.

Macros' vote makes sense (he can), but I'm confused by the other 3. Phoebus votes me in a post where he describes how he thinks the scum likely to be responsible for editing zu's post is a non-native speaker -- I like to think of myself as rather proficient in the language.

Tally's vote is completely unexplained, and Pooky's vote was just an echo of Tally's -- to re-iterate, the fact that Pooky is contributing to a bandwagon without taking any of the responsibility for having to justify his vote is why I am currently voting for him.

QFT on the mathcam wagon.

Elvis is the next on the cam wagon. Also states

I am unsure whether the people railing against our self-policing are likely to be scum or town. I think it is not productive though. I would consider anyone who cheats to have lost themselves the game. I'm not really scared that people are going to abuse the freedom we have been given. Perhaps I am too much of an optimistic, trusting person.

on makeing rules.

Glork and logic against cam wagon
Raj says he wants to jump on but doesn't want cam at -1, even though that means it's 5 to lynch, hen it's actually 7. Misrepresentation that everyone jumps on.

its hard because i want to beleive that pooky tally and ek are town. but i know i shouldnt trust them.

Found this post interesting. See nothing in the thread to make him say this, I'm assuming it's meta since he was just vanilla town(presumably).


Logic teams up with cam to go against pooky. Macros unvotes, DGB jumps in. Elvis asks for a claim. Cam is at the same amount of votes he was ealier why would he claim now. Unsure why a townie would ask that and be so die hard on a band wagon already.

Phoebus has posted twice at this point with only 0 words a piece.....a trend that doesn't let up.

I am 95% sure that you wagoned Cam first and then sought reasons to suspect him once I asked you if your "suspicion" was legitimate. This is almost always indicative of scum seeking a mislynch.

On DGB's "reasons" for going on cam wagon. I agree with this statement.

Nah, mathcam's been rising the hair in the back of my neck. Do you really think that scum would aggressively pursue a mislynch on page 4? First wagons never lead to a lynch, why would I compromise myself if I were scum?

This being said I generally accept your assessment of what is a stretch and what isn't.

Very bad defense. Plus does it make a difference it was page 4? Not really either way, no matter what page it is it's a bad defense.

Now cam is at l-1, due to raj vote. Phoebus is encouraging cam's death because it will give information, but says reasons aren't needed. Glork says a claim is needed.

Pooky switches to gork for his "abuse" on DGB

A)She's not that good at defending herself
B)She's got enough of a rep on this site to be easily bandwagonable
C)She's an easy day one target
D)He knew he could get her to post 5 reasons, being its day one he knew they wouldn't be that good.

Making it so cam doesn't have to claim.

To "answer" your request, I'm going to respond probably exactly as you expect me to:
I don't have five made up reasons to suspect DGB. I have two good, solid, legitimate ones.
1) She wagoned Cam for the sake of trying to achieve a quick lynch based on her recent "FIRING SQUAD" notion, when I think this that her behavior in this instance is seriously detrimental to the town
2) As I explained earlier, she fired first and then went looking for reasons. If she'd named her two good reasons up front and settled on a Camwagon, I would have been absolutely fine with that. If she'd thrown down the two good reasons and one or two of the bad ones, I may or may not have given her leeway. She didn't do either of them.

I agree with this.


What disappointing is most of this game is just (now) known townies fighting each other. If I didn't know they were townies and they were alive there would be plenty of suspects...odd.

Logic and tally are both severly lacking participation during the cam wagon but are voitng on it...Phoebus too but he has actually post more then them at this point. Coron is MIA(obv.)

Adel(#214) Starts being completly against the cam wagon. Gets tally to unvote as well. This alone makes me inclined to think adel isn't scum. But also makes me

FoS Tally

she started the wagon and waited 6+ pages to unvote or even post anything further on it.

DGB still wants a claim, is against raj wagon. Not sure if she is scum at this point, she just seems like a confused townie...

I just want to hear the "Alignment" part of your claim. I don't really care about the "Role" part. I agree that the "Role" part could be town/scum equally and there's not a real basis to tell the difference. But not the "Alignment" part, so I don't get what you are saying there.

Then why are you now saying one none mod power person has to be scum? This is pointless to go on this far in the game.

. I have not been assuming that everyone has Mod. powers (or rather, Mod. duties). Completely vanilla townies seem very possible.

Speculation: so for three person teams have been mentioned "cam-macros-glork" "dgb-raj-glork" "macros-elvis-cam" I'm wondering is it just standard that 3 person mafia is assumed? Upon reading it occured to me logistically you can't have a doc or cop in this set-up. Cop can't just pm someone say "hey i'm investigating you please tell me if your innocent or not, cherrio!" Doesn't work. So with the two kills it's either a one hit vig and a mafia team or an sk and a mafia team. They may have targets the same person night two? Role blocker doesn't work either "sorry no action for you tonight, just trust me it's not there if you have one?"

[nonny]

Did someone end up deleting any of SL's posts? Because post 259 doesn't make sense unless something got deleted...no that vital but I would like to know if things were deleted.

Cam was at l-5, Raj and DGB were L-4 each. No one asked for a DGB claim....though she was closer. From what I can tell (I wasn't throughly counting) But cam wasn't ever at l-1 except for 2 posts. .....Adel points this out in a jokeing manner here

I would love for a couple of people to switch their votes to DGB to give her a taste of her own medicine.

DGB you are at -4 to lynch! Why haven't you claimed yet!

oh, wait, was I supposed to say she is at lynch -1?

ok then:

DGB you are at -1 to lynch! Why haven't you claimed yet!

Protown:
EK, Cam, Adel, Phoebus, Glork, probably Axel

Scum:
Raj

So our other two scums are among:
DGB, Macros, Pooky, Coron, Logic, Tally

His orginal list, interesting that logic seems to have stayed on possible scum. (though he was wrong about raj...)

First off let's get this straight,

I'm protown

. As much as I'm all for letting people know who you think is town and scum, I think it is poor play(after all once you have made a decision on something, even if for poor, or no reason, you have a tendency to think that what you decided was right) and also a minor scum tell to list off a bunch of people as simply "protown" on day 1 with hardly any info at all.

Bolded the part I don't feel right about....why the sudden statement after so much lurking?

Debate over the "word" which i think I now understand, but still consider silly. THough I may be mistaken because I believe the last letter wouldn't tell you much new....*checks* yep last letter wouldn't give you much.....*shrug* agree with cam on the matter

You are advocating cheating because of the possibility that the scum are cheating. I suspect that Marcos' missing post could very well be similar to Shadowlurker's presence: simply a test of our maturity.

I'm starting to agree with this....

Adel unleshes her "cam-marcos-elvis" group. I still wonder what changed her mind on the cam wagon. And wonder her sentiments on it now that cam and elvis are town

Apparantly the switch is due to that infamous word....

Glork and axelrod against Adel's pairing.

Logic, axelrod, tally, phoebus, macros, coron all still lurking to some extent All of whom came out of the wood work to claim mod powers and then went back to essentially nothing.

Poeple doubt phoebus' mod job but that is the only one questioned. post 463 phoebus willing to be replaced(isn't until much later)

Whole thing over the edited deathposts. Since you guys are so keen on trusting glork

P sure he's innocent, guys, even if he did bungle the first death post completely.

Coron finally counts and raj was lynched over 100 posts ago on post 419.

Axel, Glork, Mathcam, elvis all voted earlier, then talitha voted in post 306, then macros voted in post 415, then phoebus hammered in post 419.

Due to the fact no one noticed the hammer no one talked about it. How come every one was keeping track of cam's wagon but not raj's?

Pooky and cam's deathscenes are posted. Macros added the "useful" information after being yelled out for taking it out. I know one thing that was taken out is that cam said I was willing to replace(I pm'd him when you were looking to replace phoebus or coron). But macros thought it was something in pooky's thread....(still all the billion usefulls are annoying)

So, what do people think of 2 deaths? Is there a vig at work? Seeing as people were suspicous of mathcam yesterday it seems like a possibility.

qft also interesting coron bring it up first.

Coron has been the worst contributer by a fair margin in the game. And his "also: vote DGB" just now is classic scum voting.

I also note that Glork has come out quickly against DGB this morning as well (this is not to say DGB is therefore clear - some kind of bussing plan is a possibility - but that seems less likely when no scum are down yet).

Feeling it more on Glork than Coron. I really didn't like the "Die scum Die" post at the end of the day yesterday. Can we say Over the Top?

Do you still feel coron is a threat now that you know glork is town?

Phoebus is the only one that pulls the "poor dead townie" routine. I ussually find that a scummy thing to do.

GLork comments on his town/scum list after prompting from coron. Wonder why coron wants to know exactly

Axel's lower on my list, naturally. Phoebus' claim is iffy.

Logic and axelfrod are now active, more so than ever. But tally is still lurking. Even after a prod.

I have good feeling reads on exactly 2 people (Elvis Knits and Logicitus). Everyone else could easily be scum.

Phoebus
Talitha
Glork
Coron
Macros
DGB
Adel

I think there's 3 scum in that group of 7. Out of that group, Phoebus, Talitha, Coron, and DGB have been lurking fiends. Macros has not been exactly lurking, but almost totally worthless in terms of overall contribution. So what am I supposed to make of that?

Axelrod do you still feel this way about logic, or the other poeple you seperated in your lists? (obv exclude elvis)

Tally posts, here suspicions are due to an "itch" when reading their posts. Something she is still doing now. Any actual reasons for anything?

Something I was thinking about Pheobus is how his and Macros voted very close to each other to put the last two lynching votes on raj. None of us noticed, so maybe they didn't notice either. VC's were not plentiful. But Pheobus voted withing a few posts of Macros vote, and I keep wondering if he knew he was lynching raj.

I too am wondering this after re-reading.

Phoebus wants a replacment or to just follow wagons. Phoebus is lazy about getting replaced even after logic points out cam said nonny(hey that me!) was willing to replace. Tally yells at phoebus and then apologizes.

Axelrod posts a list and assumptions about the game. He tries to clear tally on mod power alone. I find this all very WIFOM and why would you say

Talitha is least likely scum based on Mod. power alone.

I don't think any townie would try to clear someone so easily.

FOS axelrod

on that alone.

then moves on to macros

Because if he were scum, he would have cheated. I can't believe his role (as Scum Death Post Editer) would have made it okay to remove critical information from the posts, like the alignment and role of the deceased player. That just makes the game unplayable (as discussed before). No, if he were scum, I'd call it cheating, flat out. As a townie who just screwed up though, it's completely possible.

Again trying to almost clear someone on power alone. Do you still feel this was axelrod?

3rd least likely (in my opinion) is "Executioner." Because that would just be such an odd role for a scum to have. I mean, they are already trying to kill the town, and one of them has a separate role that says "When a player is lynched you send them an instruction telling them to reveal themselves in the thread." This would presumably include their fellow mafia? That's just weird.

trying to clear this one seems silly to me.(now elvis is cleared) But I don't see why that role couldn't have been scum, would have made sense since they would also be the one to say "oi we night killed you go post" but seeing as now we know it's not, it's a moot point, but still he is stretching to clear certain roles/players.

Right now I'm going with one out of Glork, DGB, Adel (most likely Glork - but I'm hating how DGB disappeared and then just posts "Talitha is town" with nothing else) and Two out of Coron, logiticus, Phoebus (most likely Coron and Phoebus).

Still feel this way about the latter part?

(all from post 653 btw)

Adel was the only one to switch vote due to this post by axelrod. She then goes after DGB. DGB just said "axel and tally are town" no reasoning...

What I do like is that tally asks DGB for reasoning, but only after axel is added to the picture. She never asked when it was just her...

Werebear replaces phoebus. First action accuse everyone that doesn't have a power. Then stumbles over himself when pointing out raj...Later werebear says DBG is the first to claim no mod powers, but it was actually raj. Reading is tech.

I guess I'm thinking about a one week deadline. Any objections?

I might approve, but only if you said you were ready to lynch someone and actually argued for why. You've really got no business setting a deadline if you aren't doing anything to push the game forward yourself. You are still voting Logiticus based on an "itch" right? So is he the one you really want lynched?

It's funny re-reading this I think tally is trying to show how scum can't abuse the deadline power is they want. But that could be reading into it. I agree with axel's response. But noticed it seems like an example of how the power is used.

I replace, macros

Adel brings up her case again after I point out if DGB is lynched we would just be in limbo till she is back from vacation. I still find it odd she switched to suddenly. What do you think of the case now, based on my play and elvis & cam being town?

Tally is lurking again...her "usefull" information is to vote adel. When I and logic prompt her for more reasonsing she says we must just want her to "make something up" This has been her play style all game, lurk, vote, wagon, gut/itch no reasoning.

FoS tally

for general unhelpfullness.

Axelrod: you are the one that pointed out that the front post changed. And you are the one for changing it. Pot calling the kettle black there.

Adel notes

Note that mathcam was killed off by the scum, who I named as a third person in my expected scum team, which is a common way to discredit scum team theories.

in post 750. I still wonder why she would say that with any level of certianity. Other than to validate her case.

Adel and I had a lot of arguements back and forth that almost no one joined in...Lukerfest sucks

Oh, completely off-topic comment. I was actually thinking about this game the other night, and I've come to the decision that if I am to be lynched or nightkilled at some point, I would gladly take over as "mod" of the game full-time, so as to take the distraction of handling mod-related duties from the players. This stems from the whole "I feel like I'm too busy trying to figure out what we're supposed to be doing and not really playing mafia" sentiment I've held up to this point.

Wonder if he still feels this way? Would actually be nice?

a small theory is churning around in my mind.. it involves the two that got replaced. Phoebus never really gave us a straight reason... (IIRC) he just said it was painful and he couldnt couldnt continue. I think a townie would have given more of an explanation before actively replacing themself. I think the reason he didn't explain is because the reason had to do with his role, as scum. Maybe he wasn't happy with his scum buddy (Macros?) early play.

I find this theory a little lacking. Phoebus was disinterested in the game from the get go barly posting. He mentioned either replace him or just let him ride bandwagons. He was askde to replace by logic and tally. He at some points was more active than tally.

Adel:

She has been very opportunistic throughout the game, always wanting to be on the latest wagon, imo. In my post 598, I detailed that a bit. However, even before and since then she jumps around far too much for my liking and very often without any sort of reason for the vote jump.

Do you still feel this way logic? I agree with this post and made a similiar one before you made this one.

DGB now states logic and nonny are town. Why does she randomly do this? It's somewhat annoying, and very unhelpful.
Tally asks why DGB thinks I'm town, but doesn't ask about logic...that is odd. (#827)

Logic step forwards to replace coron. Either he is a fed up townie, or fed up with his scum partner? Seems to be the former. Armlx replaces.

[nonny]

Everyone starts listing off thier suspects. Some are valid some are arbitrary, not going to list them all.

Logic posts the list of who is willing to lynch whom. (#866) Votes start switching based on that.

I get frustrated(still am) over none active scum hunting. It's more pointing fingers and wagon jumping that happens.

This in my opinion has been the worst demonstration of scum hunting I've ever seen. It is an aweful way to go about playing a game.

still think that is true.

Armlx is after me for de-railing the lynch. With 10 active players and his vote not on the majority area either this is hypocritical at best.

That's my reasoning? Wow. And I yelled? Gosh, if you are town and want to convince me of this, you'd do better not to misrepresent me, and you'd do much better to read my actual damn posts properly before trying to state my reasoning for me. This REALLY annoys me.

Uhm what? you just said

And thanks for digging up the Phoebus quote.

Yes I can see how it looked like I forced him out a little. I was frustrated because Phoebus said he would vote for the leading bandwagon and that would be the only contribution he would make to the game.

But yeah, he never explained why he lost interest in the game and my gut (I know Phoebus pretty well) says that there is more to it that he is not telling us. And I don't know why he wouldn't just give the reason if he were town.

about 10 pages ago. nice flip flop.

Glork's big reply to axelrod. Logic and elvis try to say this is new for glork. But really it isn't. Glork even had a "hunch" page one. He has had comments on axel all game. Armlx is defending axelrod by saying he doesn't agree with glork on more of the points. Small wagon on logic from tally, glork, and my self(accidently posted after deadline).

Glork was townie. The page and half of who's dead?

I wrote a whole post on this, you know. It's just a theory that not ALL the scum were given Mod. duties in this game, as opposed to the bunch of townies who were not given duties. Aesthetically, that makes sense to me. So it's more of a process of elimination thing, although there may be other reasons to vote one of those people completely aside from the lack of Mod. duty.

I find this detracting from real scum hunting.

Tali, it was an unvote of DGB. Her starting the wagon is irrel. The disaster is someone starting a wagon and it having to finish in 2 days if it is to end in a lynch, which can end in either A) a no lynch or B) a mislynch based on inadequate investigation of a person's actions. And C) DGB is still alive.

Uhm....I unvoted due to B. We didn't investigate her, it was more like "I don't like how she is posting" Logic pointed out more poeple were willing to vote her, so poeple voted her.

So 1 out of the 4(?) players with no assigned mod duties being scum still fits. 1 out of 3 would fit a little less well, but not by much.

So if we lynch you based on this you are fine with it, or are you exempting yourself? This is poor logic, even if generated randomly it's possible for the mafia to all have powers esp if there are only 2 mafia.

I'm concerned she could be using this as a convenient means of lynching yet one more townie and then going for the win tonight. I also don't like the way she just jumped on and off and on again on DGB, apparently due to confusion about the overall number of players in the game.

I have this concern too.

Adel and DGB saying everyone should pick between the two of them. I find this narrow, and baised to say the least. I don't see town wanting to narrow the choice so drastically. Also we are back to the lazy I'll vote x or y, make a wagon and I'll follow it but won't start it, yay!

Tally and I are somewhat friends, we did go to jeepfest together and have talked a lot off and on over the years, not sure if that accounts for the relationship adel alludes to.

So, what do people think of Glork's suggestions for scum, now that we know Glork was town? At the least I'd like everyone to take a look at logicticus, and make a judgment... town or scum... ?

Sure glork voted for logic but he put together a bigger case on axelrod. He voted logic after you did, tally, so is that why you are going there first?

Also, I sometimes try and act very "scummy" when I'm town, so I don't base my vote solely on how scummy someone is acting.

this is odd, I've never thought any one would act scummy while playing town.....trying to clear any behavior slips that are made? If you don't think poeple scummy because they act scummy how do you determine it?

DGB now states she thinks adel is town(first time she wasn't certian) after adel's quesitoning of werebear.

The tally adel buss your partner conversation confuses me a bit. But also in a game this far along with no scum dead why would a player need to "buss thier partner" Assuming I have the right defination of that.

Adel keeps changing her vote around, even after being so set on DGB from the begining, she even orginally said she would vote her till the day was done(in reply to DGB"s same sentiment)

I re-did from page 42 like 5 times cause at work they kept closing my windows. From all this I am still a bit confused. But my lists of suspects are in order as follows: Axelrod, logic, Adel, coron/armlx tied phoebus/werebear, tally, dgb. Yes I suspect almost everyone for one reason or another.

I find the most likely pair to be tally-axelrod with the third person I'm uncertain of. I would like my post to be read, it took me a lot of time. Almost 2 full days of time at work 16+/- hours.

vote axelrod

[nonny]

I made some obvious typos sorry >.< If something doesn't make sense ask and I'll clarify.

[Axelrod]

I am going to gouge my eyes out.

I just wrote an extremely long, point by point response to that non-case and when I tried to post it, got some kind of "critical database error" and lost the whole thing. That is so frustrating it makes me want to scream. I am not replicating it again tonight.

I will just say this, Nonny. You have done some serious mis-reading or are engaging in serious misrepresentation. So please go re-read what I wrote (and when I wrote it) and then come back and ask me what questions you actually have about what I wrote and why.

[nonny]

Specifically to the older or newer stuff i included?

[logicticus]

Logic and tally are both severly lacking participation during the cam wagon but are voitng on it..

I was never on the cam wagon as this implies.

Wonder if he still feels this way? Would actually be nice?

Could be nice to have glork has mod, but i am against it only because the game was designed with us modding ourselves and I dont want to ruin that. But if a majority wants it (not that i believe for one second we should actually debate this, lets please stick with the game) I will go along.

Adel:

She has been very opportunistic throughout the game, always wanting to be on the latest wagon, imo. In my post 598, I detailed that a bit. However, even before and since then she jumps around far too much for my liking and very often without any sort of reason for the vote jump.

Do you still feel this way logic? I agree with this post and made a similiar one before you made this one.

absolutely. adel, along with you are in my top 2. DGB has dropped a bit, but thats probably from lurking more than anything.

THose are all the questions directly asked to me. Great analysis, I know what a chore it is to go through all these pages (and at work on top of it all)

[armlx]

I don't think any townie would try to clear someone so easily. FOS axelrod on that alone.

I find this statement odd. Explain plz.

Armlx is after me for de-railing the lynch. With 10 active players and his vote not on the majority area either this is hypocritical at best.

I stated willingness to lynch DGB should the need arise. That was my "majority area vote".

[nonny]

How does it benefit a townie to clear someone? It doesn't. It's the same with townlists. Atleast to me, it puts that person in a different area because they appear town, but even worse he was using mod duties to clear someone. It's not like the duties are roles like cop, doc, miller, whatever. I don't see how or why you would clear someone based on it. And from recent posts he is still clearing tally with little to no explaination.

Right, sorry logic. Bound to have a couple errors. Just tally was on the wagon. Thanks for actually answering what was directed at you. It did take a lot of time.

[Werebear]

as my father-in-law would say, great lovin' mother of God, nonny. That has to be one of the longest summaries I've ever seen, interspersed with your own bias-filled interpretations of what's going on. My eyes started crossing about the third post. As long as you're cutting snippets, how about we cut one from you?

Everyone starts listing off thier suspects. Some are valid some are arbitrary, not going to list them all.

Logic posts the list of who is willing to lynch whom. (#866) Votes start switching based on that.

I get frustrated(still am) over none active scum hunting. It's more pointing fingers and wagon jumping that happens.
Quote:
This in my opinion has been the worst demonstration of scum hunting I've ever seen. It is an aweful way to go about playing a game.
still think that is true.

Armlx is after me for de-railing the lynch. With 10 active players and his vote not on the majority area either this is hypocritical at best.

This is factual reporting? What, do you work for Fox News?

In other news, I can't log on from work, and I've had a post eaten by this messageboard.

I do agree on one thing - if the vig isn't a one-shot, tonight's a good night to pick someone to kill if we don't nab a mafia with the lynch. Even if you are a one-shot, I'm pretty sure the mod won't yell at you if you maturely decide that you have TWO shots instead of one. Yes, I know this is going to get me yelled at, but hopefully all the TOWN are mature enough to realize that if there are 3 mafia alive tomorrow, the game is over.

[nonny]

I never said it was unbaised in fact i said

Thoughts as reading the game, some things I edited out since they no longer apply. Sorry if somethings seem choppy.

It's my thoughts as reading the game....duh.

I do agree on one thing - if the vig isn't a one-shot, tonight's a good night to pick someone to kill if we don't nab a mafia with the lynch. Even if you are a one-shot, I'm pretty sure the mod won't yell at you if you maturely decide that you have TWO shots instead of one. Yes, I know this is going to get me yelled at, but hopefully all the TOWN are mature enough to realize that if there are 3 mafia alive tomorrow, the game is over.

Very defeatest attitude. What makes you think it's right and okay to cheat in this game solely because the town isn't doing it's job in scum hunting? Have you ever played a game where the mod was like "well they aren't going to win so let me give them x advantage"? didn't think so. Either you are trying to validate yourself, or know we are going in the wrong direction with our "scumhunting" Either way I don't find your attitude very pro-town.

huge FoS werebear

[armlx]

Either way I don't find your attitude very pro-town. huge FoS werebear

I'm intrigued here.

[Werebear]

Nonny. Defeatist, or facts?

1) We don't know how many scum there are. Best guess is 2 or 3. Either is a possibility.
2) If there are 3, and we lynch a town, the scum win tomorrow. Fact. They kill one more townie, and then either they jump on a town's vote for a town member, or all 3 vote the same person and wait for a deadline.
3) If we lynch a town, and there is a vigilante, their shot of a scum could change that town loss into another chance at winning.
4) This is called MATURE mafia. I was given a job as part of this. I decided even before I realized I didn't have mod powers, that I would not do my job. Incorrect tags are barely noticable, edited posts are. If Macros had not "done his job" on a perfectly good death post, day 1 would have been saved a lot of headaches. Part of being mature is knowing when you should do your job, and when you're just doing it because you were told to. This leads to why my suggestion:

The suggestion that a one-shot vigi take two shots falls under the category of "trying to figure out how to assure a town win". I probably shouldn't have made it, and expected to be shouted down. But how that falls under the category of "OMG WEREBEAR'S SCUM", I completely fail to see.

Tell you what, nonny. You tell me how the town can win under these circumstances, and I'll declare you the winner of our debate.

1) there's 3 scum
2) the town has just lynched a town, leaving 7 town alive
3) there's a vigilante, they were told they only had one shot, and they used it.

[armlx]

While I strongly disagree with Werebear (integrity of game > results), he makes a point that did not deserve the response nonny gave. His suggested actions are merely wrong on a moral basis, not a scummy one, and trying to transpose the two is reaching.

[nonny]

I didn't say I thought he was scum over it, I said I thought he wasn't pro-town. There is a difference. Not like I voted over it either.

1) there's 3 scum
2) the town has just lynched a town, leaving 7 town alive
3) there's a vigilante, they were told they only had one shot, and they used it.

Simple we don't win. Because we didn't use all the resource we had to scumhunt and became a lazy town. We don't get to bend the game in our favor just because we can't scumhunt properly, plus I wouldn't want to win that way in the first place. You were basically making a choice and trying to force it on everyone. How about instead of thinking automatically that we are going to lose if you don't cheat(making a role work outside of it's capacity is cheating!) you actually activly scumhunt!!!

You haven't contributed almost anything other that at first thinking someone with out a mod power must be scum!!! And now you retract that? How about actually saying who you think is scum or not? How about pointing out suspicions? How about actually playing the game without bending the rules to suite your needs and wants?

I don't see why you would even suggest this, and personally I just think it's a distraction from scumhunting. Plus I'm still waiting on poeple to answer the questions I directed to them in my huge summary of thoughts post.

[armlx]

I said I thought he wasn't pro-town.

Yes, but your FoS implies you think that his anti-town behavior (which it is not) was scummy.

[nonny]

I said I thought he wasn't pro-town.

Yes, but your FoS implies you think that his anti-town behavior (which it is not) was scummy.

FoS= finger of suspicion. Someone can do something suspicious without it nesscacrily being scummy or a scum tell for that matter. Like self voting, it is suspicious but not nesscarily scummy. Doing something suspicious can be anti-town, but not nesscarily pro-scum. Therefore you are wrong trying to dictate what i find suspicious. If I had voted him based on it I may listen to the critisim on it. The FoS is merely me pointing out that the behevior is not pro-town and is not I think appreciated.

[armlx]

Someone can do something suspicious without it nesscacrily being scummy or a scum tell for that matter.

ORLY? How can something be suspicious but not scummy? I understand anti-town but not scummy, but that I don't.

[nonny]

armlx, that is more a matter of opinon which I pointed out. I don't think this subject needs further discussion as it is only detracting from actually doing something useful for the town to win.

[armlx]

Can you explain how something can be suspicious and not scummy?