Mini 579 - The Plagues of Egypt Mafia - Over

[hasdgfas]

Blah blah blah, poor me, I'm so awesome, blah blah blah.

Abridged for people on the go.

So in summary, I am being lynched because (a) I have been the most active player, and (b) I "slipped" and revealed that there were 2 or 3 Scum, depending on whether you are Hacker Huck or lord_hur.

Yes.

Claim.

stark, no offense, but if that's your whole case, that's a load of crap.

[stark]

Blah blah blah, poor me, I'm so awesome, blah blah blah.

Abridged for people on the go.

So in summary, I am being lynched because (a) I have been the most active player, and (b) I "slipped" and revealed that there were 2 or 3 Scum, depending on whether you are Hacker Huck or lord_hur.

Yes.

Claim.

stark, no offense, but if that's your whole case, that's a load of crap.

Other players have stated the argument against stoofer more eloquently. I don't see your commentary on the assorted posts by LH and HH.

But just for you:

For my personal ease, every quote henceforth is from Mr. Stoofer.

Is this a joke? I have been the most active participant in the game, pushing discussion, trying to keep the game moving, etc. I honestly believe that this game would have died if I had not been keeping it going (and to be honest, the effort has exhausted me).

That

is what I have done that is particularly pro-town.

A talkative player does not pro-town make. That was very kind of you that you stimulated the game. This does not give you a "Get out of Lynch" card.

I have a challenge for you stark, to name

one

player that has done something "particulalrly pro-town" and explain what it is.

Don't try to divert attention away from yourself. Other players are not important at this point. You are the one under suspicion.

As for "flying under the radar", if you mean I have laid low - you must be kidding, right? If you mean that I have not come under suspicion - you must be kidding right? Which do you mean, and how on earth do you justify it?

Show me where, prior to today, you have ever come under suspicion. You have been the spearhead of every lynch this game.

The core is that Mr Stoofer was the one who pushed most for the two lynches we made so far, which I think are both town.

Well, I was on the Guardian lynch, who I think was Scum and so did the

majority

of the Town.

I was not on Musher's lynch, although I was in favour of it - again, as were the

majority

.

Man, you got us. No one would ever suspect scum to support the majority. I bow before your superior reasoning.

These were my honest suspects. Unlike a lot of players in this game who have sat back an let others -i.e. me make the running (and you are a little bit guily of this, lord_hur) I have tried to keep this game moving forward by posting my suspicions and my reasons.

and various scumtells I can't be bothered to recap.

I know you are 99% confirmed Town, but if you weren't then this sort of thing would look really scummy.

That's helpful.

Silly. I am not a good player. Look at my wiki page: you will see that a have lost

a lot

more games than I have one. My custom title "Less than scum" was given to me because I was not worthy of a full "Mafia Scum" title. The reasons people like playing with me is not because I am good at this game but because I am active and keep the game moving.

What do you want us to say to that?

[Mr Stoofer]

Is this a joke? I have been the most active participant in the game, pushing discussion, trying to keep the game moving, etc. I honestly believe that this game would have died if I had not been keeping it going (and to be honest, the effort has exhausted me).

That

is what I have done that is particularly pro-town.

A talkative player does not pro-town make. That was very kind of you that you stimulated the game. This does not give you a "Get out of Lynch" card.[/quote]
I'm not saying it does. You accused me of flying under the radar. I take it you now admit you were wrong?

I have a challenge for you stark, to name

one

player that has done something "particulalrly pro-town" and explain what it is.

Don't try to divert attention away from yourself. Other players are not important at this point. You are the one under suspicion.

I'm not trying to divert suspicion away from myself, I'm trying to show that your argument ("not done anything particularly pro-town") was rubbish. The fact that you cannot point to anyone who has done anything "particularly pro-town" proves I am right.

As for "flying under the radar", if you mean I have laid low - you must be kidding, right? If you mean that I have not come under suspicion - you must be kidding right? Which do you mean, and how on earth do you justify it?

Show me where, prior to today, you have ever come under suspicion. You have been the spearhead of every lynch this game.

FFS read the game! Just look at the vote counts and you will see that I have been under suspicion on every day.

The core is that Mr Stoofer was the one who pushed most for the two lynches we made so far, which I think are both town.

Well, I was on the Guardian lynch, who I think was Scum and so did the

majority

of the Town.

I was not on Musher's lynch, although I was in favour of it - again, as were the

majority

.

Man, you got us. No one would ever suspect scum to support the majority. I bow before your superior reasoning.

You are being stupid now. I am not saying I am innocent because of this: I am just saying that you can't accuse me (only) of being scum because of this.

These were my honest suspects. Unlike a lot of players in this game who have sat back an let others -i.e. me make the running (and you are a little bit guily of this, lord_hur) I have tried to keep this game moving forward by posting my suspicions and my reasons.

Not really helpful.

and various scumtells I can't be bothered to recap.

I know you are 99% confirmed Town, but if you weren't then this sort of thing would look really scummy.

That's helpful.

That's not helpful.

Silly. I am not a good player. Look at my wiki page: you will see that a have lost

a lot

more games than I have one. My custom title "Less than scum" was given to me because I was not worthy of a full "Mafia Scum" title. The reasons people like playing with me is not because I am good at this game but because I am active and keep the game moving.

What do you want us to say to that?

lord_hur was saying "I am a "great" (his words) player and therefore the fact that I haven't caught scum shows I must be scum. This was to show that the logic was wrong. (Also I caught scum on day 1.)


_______________________________________________

Your post dopes not actually present any reasons why I might be scum (read it again, it doesn't.) It just makes silly points about what I have said, because it doesn't put what I said in context. I have refuted every point you have made against me -- several of which you have admitted to be wrong, and others (e.g. your claim that I have not been under suspicion) are just stupid.)

I think you must be scum. No-one is that bad at this game.

vote: stark

.

[undo]

Lawrencelot replaces SeraphicMirth.

Not voting:

hasdgfas, lord_hur

With 6 alive, it's

4 to lynch

.

[Lawrencelot]

Hi guys. Didn't read the thread yet, will do so this week. If anyone could make a summary of important things (claims of both dead and living players, what the town has assumed about the set-up, etc.) I would appreciate it.

Unvote

for the time being. We're not in Lylo or anything right?

[Lawrencelot]

EBWOP: wait, is it true we did not find any scum yet?

[lord_hur]

EBWOP: wait, is it true we did not find any scum yet?

This is what I'm thinking, but Mr Stoofer is apparently convinced of the opposite. The others, except maybe stark, are inactive and have no opinion.

[hasdgfas]

EBWOP: wait, is it true we did not find any scum yet?

we don't have any confirmed scum, but Guardian was very probably scum.

[lord_hur]

Oh yes Lawrencelot, could you give your opinion on post 980 please (begins on post 922)? Good or bad argument?

stark (and of course Mr Stoofer and HackerHuck) is the only one that gave his opinion yet.

[Lawrencelot]

Reading everything from the start of Day 4. With the full reread, I'm on page 6 .

Okay. I am confirmed town. And the next victim. Yay.

Can you explain to me why, taking into account I didn't read what happened before Day 4? Also, what are magiks? (same post)

stark, you need to re-read more carefully. Guardian was dropping fake cop tells at the beginning of the game, pretending that he had a guilty result on Sly Sly. He admitted this. That is why I said I wanted to lynch Sly Sly - (a) to signal to Guardian that I had picked up on his hint, and (b) to take some of the attention away from Guardian, who was being too obvious I thought.

Can you point me to those tells? And to where Guardian claims cop with a guilty (if he did that)

lol@ people starting to speculate which characters would be scum on Day 4. Moses and his brother as only scum seems plausible to me, especially if something like stopping the day is a scum power. Who would be the third scum if there are three? Moses' sister? Wife?

Mr. Stoofer: can you explain to me why you think Guardian was scum?

Wait, now I'm confused. Did Guardian claim cop or miller? Did it happen like this: Guardian breadcrumbed cop, only stoofer picked it up, thought Guardian was cop, then Guardian claimed miller, and everybody thought Guardian was scum, and everybody still thinks Guardian is scum?

I would like to share my experience with Guardian (I have experience with Stoofer but only with him as a mod, so can't use that). I remember two games I was in with Guardian, one of which where I was the mod, which I'll call the first game. In the first game, Guardian was town and a very vocal player. As a vocal player, it was easier for players (both town and scum) to make cases against him, as there was more content available. Guardian got attacked a lot and became frustrated because he was "attacked for being vocal". In the second game, Guardian was scum, and again he was very vocal. Again he became frustrated because people attacked him for it, and some people thought: I've seen Guardian do that before, he must be town right now again.
What I'm trying to say is: I've heard Stoofer say "I'm the most vocal player" several times, and for Guardian this is a very important feature in the game. Therefore, I see it as a tie to Guardian, and Stoofer saying "I lynched Guardian and he was scum" is also something that makes me think Stoofer is scum.

lord_hur: post 980? As you wish.

That sentence does not imply only 2 Scum. (Think about it this way: If I had said "who are his buddies" than would imply 3+ Scum, which is probably why I did not use that form of wording.)

3 is the logical number for 12 players, so everyone but you and HH always correctly used the plural, because only you two knew from the start that there are only 2 scums. That's my argument.

First of all, unless I'm missing something, Mr Stoofer is saying that he indeed implied 2 scum, because he did not use the word "are". I do not understand Stoofer's reaction to what's not quoted here at all. I don't know what HackerHuck has to do with it, but it's certainly an argument against Mr Stoofer.

about hasdfgas: he posted when Stoofer was at 3 votes (1014), so if we're in lylo right now, hasdfgas is either confirmed town, or Stoofer's buddy, and I think town is way more likely. The same counts for lord_hur. Basically I agree with stark (1016).

Stark's arguments about Stoofer are usually okay, but there are some things that fail. That is, that Stoofer flew under the radar, and that he has not given town-tells, only scumtells (maybe it was lord_hur who said the last one, I don't remember). It is interesting that Stoofer mainly defends himself against these arguments (1018).

So in summary, I am being lynched because (a) I have been the most active player, and (b) I "slipped" and revealed that there were 2 or 3 Scum, depending on whether you are Hacker Huck or lord_hur.

This almost makes me think Stoofer is Guardian's alt. But scumbuddy is more likely.

Vote: Mr Stoofer

.

Also, regardless of whether Stoofer was vocal, was the one who lynched Guardian or Musher or whatever: somehow he gave me the vibes of an experienced-scum right from the start of the game (using experienced as the opposite of noob). Catching cop-tells... I don't really do that as town.

Your post dopes not actually present any reasons why I might be scum (read it again, it doesn't.) It just makes silly points about what I have said, because it doesn't put what I said in context. I have refuted every point you have made against me -- several of which you have admitted to be wrong, and others (e.g. your claim that I have not been under suspicion) are just stupid.)

I think you must be scum. No-one is that bad at this game.

vote: stark.

Whether the first part is right or not, this reminds me a lot of scum pulling a OMGUS. Stoofer is contradicting himself a lot, he says he's not a good player, he's proud he found a cop and later lynched a scum while we don't even know for sure that he's scum, he leaves away that he also lynched a town (did he guide the Musher's lynch as much as Guardian's?). But the most important is that he keeps telling he's the most vocal player and that this is the reason he's being attacked a lot, it reminds me so much of Guardian it hurts.

I want to hear why lord_hur thinks Guardian was town. That's the only way I could be convinced that Stoofer is not scum, but I think I made up my mind already.

Sorry for the long post, and sorry if it's inconsistent, I made it while reading this day and finding out what happened.

[lord_hur]

Reading everything from the start of Day 4. With the full reread, I'm on page 6 .

Okay. I am confirmed town. And the next victim. Yay.

Can you explain to me why, taking into account I didn't read what happened before Day 4? Also, what are magiks? (same post)

SL and I were claimed mason, and SL was killed last night.

magiks = the scum had apparently the one-time power to cause a day to end, which they used to kill SL.

[lord_hur]

Wait, now I'm confused. Did Guardian claim cop or miller? Did it happen like this: Guardian breadcrumbed cop, only stoofer picked it up, thought Guardian was cop, then Guardian claimed miller, and everybody thought Guardian was scum, and everybody still thinks Guardian is scum?

I reread that not too long ago, and it went like this :

- Guardian breadcrumbed cop
- Mr Stoofer backed him up, establishing a clear link between him and Guardian
- Guardian said Mr Stoofer was thinking he was cop because he was playing in a silly way (Mr Stoofer did NOT uncover Guardian, he did it himself : he could perfectly have continued to beardcrumb at this point)
- Guardian then claimed miller and backed it up with something he coded way before (not worth much as a proof, but worth noting)
- Mr Stoofer voted Guardian
- everyone else voted Guardian

[lord_hur]

I want to hear why lord_hur thinks Guardian was town. That's the only way I could be convinced that Stoofer is not scum, but I think I made up my mind already.

First, I want to say that Guardian and Mr Stoofer being pals makes no sense at ALL to me. To name te better reasons I can think of right now : how often do you see scum bussing early day 1 ? Why would Mr Stoofer conceal his bussing (I'm pretty sure no-reveal was a limited scum power, right like premature day ending) ?

About Guardian being town, I gave so many arguments, there's no way I can remember all of them like that. Here are the ones I am thinking about right now (I can scrounge up the others if you want) :

- Guardian uncovered himself, while he perfectly could have continued to breadcrumb, especially since he knew the only person who had noticed it, Mr Stoofer, was buying it ;
- breadcrumbing cop really looks to me like a terrible strategy for scum, as it would make them a prime target for the real cop ; the reason invoked by Guardian (trying to get NKed instead of the real cop) at least makes enough sense to be taken as a good strategy (by someone who never tried it, of course) ;
- Guardian was playing in a self-destructive way : claiming instead of continuing to play along, not defending himself much, saying that his lynch wasn't a big loss, etc. This is not scum play, but it does make sense for a miller.

[lord_hur]

Right now, my suspicions go like this (I would ask everyone to do the same, but again no one would do it) :

Mr Stoofer 90%
HackerHuck 70%
hasdgfas 50%
stark 40%
Lawrencelot 20%

[HackerHuck]

Unless I missed an unvote, that's a lynch.

I'm not so sure we could only have two scum (in total). It seems like a really risky proposition, even with the special lynchless day and some no-reveal. Having the Lovers/masons makes it even less likely in my eyes to only have two scum. Regardless of total scum, I'm pretty sure that we're down to two now (hopefully one with Stoofer gone).

Lawrencelot's meta review of Guardian did get me thinking a bit. If I recall correctly, he was town in a large open game and foolishly fake-claimed doc. Although that establishes a precedence of him doing something like that, it had such disastrous results that I can't believe he would repeat that as town. I'll take a look for it to reference, but the game was modded by LoudMouthLee and was called "The New C9". I'll try and post a link if I can before this gets locked.

[hasdgfas]

Unless I missed an unvote, that's a lynch.

Lawrence unvoted right when he came in and just revoted, so day continues.

[stark]

I have a bit of limited access now, so once I get some more time, I'm going to respond to Stoofer's post in full.

Since you're the only one defending him, hascow, why shouldn't we lynch stoofer?

[hasdgfas]

I have a bit of limited access now, so once I get some more time, I'm going to respond to Stoofer's post in full.

Since you're the only one defending him, hascow, why shouldn't we lynch stoofer?

Because I haven't been convinced by your so-called "case"

[HackerHuck]

Then who do you think the mafia are?

For those interested in the Guardian point I brought up, here are the details.

His claim of doc. Then just do a sort by posts for Guardian. This one was his post 118. He comments on the breadcrumbing in 123 and comes clean about his lie in 187.

Take it for what you will and I'm not really sure how important it is at this point whether we believe Guardian was scum.

[lord_hur]

Then who do you think the mafia are?

For those interested in the Guardian point I brought up, here are the details.

His claim of doc. Then just do a sort by posts for Guardian. This one was his post 118. He comments on the breadcrumbing in 123 and comes clean about his lie in 187.

Take it for what you will and I'm not really sure how important it is at this point whether we believe Guardian was scum.

His play in that game is extremely different from the one he put up in this game. Aggressive, haughty, pushy, while he was apologizing for his bad play in his one.

The only similarity I can find is his breadcrumbing technique. But you don't breadcrumb differently whether you're lying or telling the truth, do you ?

[Mr Stoofer]

Are there any points against me that I have not successfully refuted? stark's post 1026 was just a list of quotes from me and did not contain any arguments why I might be Scum.

@Lawrencelot: Guardian pretended to be a Cop with a guilty result on another player. I picked up on this and then he started acting oddly so I pointed out that I had worked out what he was doing. He admitted that he was pretending to be a Cop with a guilty result when he was not -- he then claimed Miller (the most obvious Scum claim ever from someone caught in a blatant lie). To those who have questioned whether he was Scum: how much more proof do you need that someone is Scum?

[stark]

Why aren't you claiming, Stoofer?

[hasdgfas]

Why aren't you claiming, Stoofer?

read his posts.

[lord_hur]

Why aren't you claiming, Stoofer?

read his posts.

Then, why do you think he is not claiming ? Or are you saying that he did claim ?

[Mr Stoofer]

I will claim after the following events have occurred:

1. Someone has listed all the points against me that (they think) I have not refuted. [Please number each point when you do so.]
2. I have had a chance to respond.
3. A significant number of people still want me to claim after I have done this.