Mini 649-Everything comes down to money(Game Over)

[Artem]

/confirm

[Artem]

Vote: Light-kun

due to the obligatory "you're trying to start a bandwagon".

A purely objective question since this is my first game outside of newbie games: why is allowing roles with nighttalk to communicate until Aug 20th fair? You know... outside of "the mod is always right" reasons...

[Artem]

Damn it.

Unvote

Vote: Y.C.

for beating me to the punch.

[Artem]

Artem, why did you feel the need to change your vote, eh? Missed your scumbuddy?

Because Y.C.'s post wasn't there when I clicked "Post reply" and appeared before I hit "Submit" on my own post. Mind reading and preemptive posting to make it appear as if I'm bandwagoning Light-Kun is an obvious scum tactic.

He is new, and actually cared to mention the long night deadline first. I am thinking he is scum, because I just kinda glazed through everything, and if I were experienced scum, I would be like, "sweet" and say nothing. If I were an amateur, I would probably do something similar.

So, why so curious about the date set Artem?

Because as mentioned, this is my first game outside of the newbie thread, so of course I'm reading all the rules carefully. (Heck, I even had to look up what some of the roles mean). Having nighttalk allowed until Aug 20th didn't seem fair.

[Artem]

So, we seem to be leaving the joke phase of the game, so

Unvote

.

Hello everyone I would like to

vote: sirdanilot

because he unvoted Artem and FOS'd him without voting anyone else and I don't understand why a townie would do that since he stopped using his vote.

This is suspicious to me. First, sirdanilot is using his vote, so Airhead is wrong. Second, this is coming across as a lurker popping in and making a half-attempt at being useful. This deserves some pressure in my book:

Vote: Airhead

I also think that riboflavin is over-reacting in post 40, but I'm getting more of a newb-town feel from it (mostly because I feel that asking about revelation of scum is a town slip).

[Artem]

Artem I would like to ask you why you say I am a "lurker" when the mod told you that I said I would be away and unable to access the game for a few days.

Alright, "lurker" may not be an appropriate term, especially this early in the game, but your entrance does warrant suspicion.

Also why do you say I am trying to look useful rather than trying to be useful because I think I might really be on to something with sirdanilot.

Lastly I was quite obviously referring to sirdanilot's post #26 in which he was not using his vote at that time and I see very little reason for any townie to unvote and not be using their vote at this stage in the game so I am unsure in what sense you think I am "wrong" that he decided to stop using his vote at that time.

Do you think that it was a good idea for him to unvote and not be using his vote at that time Artem -- do you think it would be a good idea for all the players in the game to unvote and just fos who they were voting when no one is anywhere near lynch. Do you think that doing that would be town behavior. Why.

So, you're voting sirdanilot because he didn't use his vote between posts #26 and #35? No, I don't think it's a good idea for all players in the game to unvote and just fos, but I think that players are entitled to be able to not be voting at one time or another.

[Artem]

@Airhead: your entrance is suspicious because you voted sirdanilot for a poor reason. Your vote would have held more merit if sirdanilot wasn't voting at the time of your post. But he was! So it appears that you're after his case for not voting during a handful of posts in the early stages of the game. To me, that's a very poor reason.

To answer your question, I think it's perfectly ok for players to not have a standing declaration of who their number one suspect is

when the game is on the freaking page 2

, and where most of the votes are still from the joke phase.

[Artem]

I'm a little confused about Airhead's stance on her own vote.

I claimed that voting sirdanilot for not using his vote over a period of nine posts is a bad entrance into the game. Airhead then goes to great lengths of explaining why her voting sirdanilot is a great way to discourage the town from descending into an apocalyptic scenario where we're all just FoSing each other without using our votes.

Then, here I'm reading that her vote reason isn't great, but pretty good for page 2:

You say my attack was bad because it was for something minor and on page two -- what else am I supposed to comment on on page two. I commented on what I saw as the strongest thing so far. It seems to me if I had posted "Hi. vote: sirdanalot" I would have attracted much less suspicion from you -- discouraging analysis in that manner is highly detrimental to town success.

I disagree that sirdanilot unvoting was the strongest thing at the time. I also disagree that "Hi. vote: sirdanilot" would warrant less suspicion because it has even poorer reasons for the vote (i.e., no reasons at all).

And as much as Airhead is concerned with players using their votes, notice that she's

still

voting sirdanilot and not one of the terrible-terrible sinners who are not putting their votes to use.

Airhead, can you please tell us a little bit more about why you find sirdanilot scummier than some of the other suspects? I'm only assuming that you do because of your vote on him.

[Artem]

Artem, well then, what was the strongest thing at the time. Why.

There were at least two big (for page 2) things in the discussion at that time: my comment on the mod's Aug 20th deadline for nighttalk, and sirdanilot's attack on riboflavin. (There were a few minor points on Light-Kun also.) I'm not saying that you should have jumped on one of those bandwagons, but a comment about ongoing cases would have been nice. The fact that you ignored those issues entirely and started going after something completely different (which, in my opinion, wasn't at all scummy) is what warranted the "half attempt at being useful" comment from me.

Also, what basis do you have for saying I would have come under more suspicion if I had placed a random vote.

Because "Hi vote: sirdanilot" comes across as a vote for no reason more than a random vote, especially considering that it would have been made when the game started to leave the joke-vote phase with some non-joke cases getting constructed.

[Artem]

I've basically told

a group of mostly (teenage/20s) males on the internet

that they can't do something because it is bad. The natural reaction, obviously, is to ignore me and do it anyway. See posts 58, 65, etc.

Airhead, by introducing an issue irrelevant to any logical considerations, intended to either vent or steer away from the subject of discussion, you are making an "appeal to emotion". This is a major scum-tell, at least as I see it.

I don't think it's a scum-tell but comments like that are a big no-no because of their intended demeaning of actual players, however subtle it is.

Keep the game in the game and real life in real life. I have a problem with players that can't separate the two.

[Artem]

I wouldn't wagon Coron just yet for the slight chance of him being a jester.

On the other hand, I've never played with him, so he might use this kind of tactic to confuse both town

AND mafia

, meaning he is in a 3rd party faction of some sort.

Do any of you think there is more to this than just apathetic playing-style?

Ok. Why do you think that Coron's actions are confusing the mafia, if you're not mafia yourself?

Unvote; Vote Y.C

[Artem]

Y.C., I'm reading and re-reading your statement

I wouldn't wagon Coron just yet for the slight chance of him being a jester.

On the other hand, I've never played with him, so he might use this kind of tactic to confuse both town AND mafia, meaning he is in a 3rd party faction of some sort.

and I'm still reading it as a mafia slip. Maybe I'm reading into it too much but your first sentence suggests that Coron is a 3rd party (jester), but then you say "On the other hand...". On the other hand of what? Of Coron being a jester? If Coron is not a jester but third party, then it does him no good to attract attention to himself like that if he's a SK or cult. And the whole sentence is still coming off as mafia saying: hey, it looks to me that Coron's playing style is just trying to confuse us all. How do you know he's not mafia trying to slip by as a jester? None of your theories suggest that.

I think Airhead and I will just have to disagree on not voting. I still maintain that somebody not voting for 9 posts is not a good reason to find somebody scummy. But Airhead seems rooted in her beliefs and it just appears as a playstyle preference at this point.

As far as Coron, I see no reason for not lynching him. He's not really scum-hunting. He appears to be a jester, which means that he either is one or is a mafia trying to buy himself a ticket to the end-game. I've seen a townie play like Coron before, but that townie actually stepped up at L-1 and started calling mafia out based on their reactions to his play. Coron doesn't appear to have any intention of starting to scum-hunt using his play, so I doubt he's a townie.

If Coron is a jester, great, he can have his win. The wiki says that the game will go on once the jester is eliminated (

Mod: I assume this is true in this one

). But having him hang around like that is not good, because he might be a mafia pretending to be a jester.

If nobody objects, I will hammer him in 48 hours or so.

[Artem]

Coron, is there a reason you find the person proposing to hammer you more scummy than the players supporting the proposition?

Other than, you know, OMGUS reasons.

[Artem]

Whoa, whoa, how can you claim something without checking your role pm?

[Artem]

Unvote; Vote Coron

I think he pulled Bodyguard out of thin air.

[Artem]

How can a mafia godfather be town-aligned?

[Artem]

I'm a little confused about how mafia can be town-aligned.

Also, doesn't two godfathers mean there are two mafia families? That probably explains the number of night kills.

[Artem]

im the one that can kill people at night is that the town aligned one?

That's just O.o to me. Doesn't your role PM say what your victory conditions are?

[Artem]

Whoa, whoa, L-1?

Don't you think we need to have riboflavin explain himself?

Agreed on prod of Airhead.

[Artem]

why would i want to rat out my partners...

So, you DO have partners?

Vote: riboflavin[/b[

[Artem]

EDBWOP:

Vote: riboflavin