Open 778: Nightless Vanilla [Game Over!]

[northsidegal]

Votecount 6.6

Target	Wagon
Deimos27 (2)	Firebringer (3154), Isis (3156)
Isis (1)	humaneatingmonkey (3129)
Firebringer (1)	Looker (2932)
Not Voting (3)	Deimos27, Elements, Green Crayons

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. The Day 6 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-22 12:38:59).

[Green Crayons]

They’ve hard buddied each other. I don’t see a same scum alignment there.

This is not what I've seen in my re-read.

Yeah I used the wrong term. What about my revised explanation? Isis has consistently vouched for Elements as town.

[Green Crayons]

Honestly I blame my neighbor who thought by going out and sitting on my porch that was an invitation to talk. And so I was phone posting whilst listening to him opining about tv shows.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Isis has consistently vouched for Elements as town.

Also not true. It seems as if you didn't even read my posts.

But whatever.

[Green Crayons]

I did read your posts but not with that in mind. Sheesh.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm not gonna be convincing anyone here. I get it. The game is lost.

I'm just going to continue my re-read until I catch up to 128, and collect as many information as I can.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hopefully one or two of you decides to actually listen to me and actually discuss the meat of my posts.

But if nothing else, I get a big I told you so at the end and that's also nice.

[Green Crayons]

You’re getting pretty nihilist early on. You just laid out your thought process. People have their preformed notions.

I mean, you haven’t engaged with my explanation for why I think Isis isn’t scum. You don’t see me moping.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You cleared Isis through VCA but VCA aren't tell-alls. VCAs are a tool. If all game, you have the information that Isis has played the bus-distance game, the not being on any mislynch wagon is TOO convenient. And it's something that happens — I already proved this to Looker.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You expect me to believe that town won't normally find themselves on a mislynch wagon in a nightless? You know this is not the whole story.

[Green Crayons]

I’m on phone so this isn’t super easy. But the below post is the last time on page one of Isis’s ISO where she’s vouching for Elements. She started out super strong on Elements-is-town, waivers a little bit, and then got here.

playing to his town meta?

He's playing townier than his town meta and I'm confused. I mean maybe that's a bad thing because I felt like to some extent his scumwin featured him adhering to orthodox play people want to see. He's convincing me it's organic here, though.

Did she about face at some point on Elements? I certainly don’t remember it, HME. She’s been calling Elements likely town since forever.

[Green Crayons]

If all game, you have the information that Isis has played the bus-distance game,

She jumped from Cycle to Norwegian with you and Ali. So she was willing to abandon the lazy scum (Cycle) for another, not lazy scum (Norwegian)?

[Green Crayons]

You expect me to believe that town won't normally find themselves on a mislynch wagon in a nightless? You know this is not the whole story.

Is Isis so bad at being mafia she can’t bring herself to kill a town? So bad that she becomes good by escaping lynch scrutiny?

[Isis]

I'm not gonna be convincing anyone here. I get it. The game is lost.

Is this genuine? You've believed I'm scum for 3% of the game, based on no new info, and "the game is lost"?

[Looker]

Hem do you think I'm scum and if so have you looked at the contrast in my voting tendencies as town and scum?

Was there a reason why you picked those four games? It's not like I'm going to prove you wrong or anything, like I'm going to go through and snoop through your old shit.

I move my vote a lot as town
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=81277&user_select[]=32224
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=80818&user_select[]=32224
I don't as scum
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=80513&user_select[]=32224
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=80648&user_select[]=32224

pls don't mod kill me

ohhh lol.

VOTE: Deimos

ITS TIME!

IF YOU BELIEVE IN ME. FOLLOW! IF YOU DONT STAY OUT OF THE WAY!

If deimos is scum. He isn't scum with Elements!

I'm confused. What exactly is happening?

• Because Elements linked some games where he moved his vote, he's town? Do the quality of the reasons in his town games match up to the quality of the reasons in this one?
  • I'm asking because I know I'm not going to read them - I can barely read this one.
  • Side note: Do you still think people are scum because of low post counts?

---

• HEM has proven me wrong, but I don't want to trust him. I need somebody else (other than Firebringer) to tell me that he's right.

Isis: Tell me that HEM is right and that I should kill you.

[Green Crayons]

I mean, my point with engaging you is let’s accept Isis is scum! You’re not getting folks on board today with that.

But if true, who do you think is her scum friend? I’m hoping we can find common ground there.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Is that really a hard town stance? That's a wishy-washy stance. Later on in the post, she admits she doesn't understand how to townread Elements exactly. So why does she based on meta again?

[Green Crayons]

My point is that she’s vouching for Elements, which means they are not likely a scum pair.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't agree. Strategies change when PoEs change.

[Green Crayons]

I don’t understand that response.

[Green Crayons]

Looker who is scum team.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also, I don't believe associations are as simplistic as that. Scum can afford to hide behind layers of WIFOM. I prefer to catch scum through POV and motivation.

[Isis]

Spoiler:

Hem do you think I'm scum and if so have you looked at the contrast in my voting tendencies as town and scum?

Was there a reason why you picked those four games? It's not like I'm going to prove you wrong or anything, like I'm going to go through and snoop through your old shit.

I move my vote a lot as town
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=81277&user_select[]=32224
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=80818&user_select[]=32224
I don't as scum
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=80513&user_select[]=32224
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=80648&user_select[]=32224

pls don't mod kill me

ohhh lol.

VOTE: Deimos

ITS TIME!

IF YOU BELIEVE IN ME. FOLLOW! IF YOU DONT STAY OUT OF THE WAY!

If deimos is scum. He isn't scum with Elements!

I'm confused. What exactly is happening?

• Because Elements linked some games where he moved his vote, he's town? Do the quality of the reasons in his town games match up to the quality of the reasons in this one?
  • I'm asking because I know I'm not going to read them - I can barely read this one.
  • Side note: Do you still think people are scum because of low post counts?

---

• HEM has proven me wrong, but I don't want to trust him. I need somebody else (other than Firebringer) to tell me that he's right.

Isis: Tell me that HEM is right and that I should kill you.

It's challenging to try to offset the biases that come from activity differentials.

As for whether I would be likely to be offwagon for every mislynch in a nightless setup I'll share some info about my mentality. Hopefully nsg will make a PT for all modkilled neutral survivors and I'll be able to hang out with Elements.
viewtopic.php?p=11280665#p11280665

In Deathlist I was onwagon for every single mislynch IIRC, in Starry Night it was bus-ML-ML- offwagon for ML - bus - got lynched while pushing a mislynch iirc

[Firebringer]

UNVOTE:
I am too disoriented today for mafia, sorry friends.

[Green Crayons]

Also, I don't believe associations are as simplistic as that. Scum can afford to hide behind layers of WIFOM. I prefer to catch scum through POV and motivation.

I don’t think it’s simplistic? I think it’s the very nature of being scum. You are *hyper aware* of who your scum teammates are. You make a conscious decision about when to mention them or interact with them because it will instantly tie you together.

Claiming a fellow scum is town based on the magic voodoo of meta is a huuuuuge risk. Not impossible but just not likely.