Open 87 - Baby Too Much Scum - Over before 641

[armlx]

I don't believe Oman has given a defense yet of the case on him. I'd like to hear it.

This actually is part of the case, given that we have asked for it for a long time.

[Oman]

Theres nothing to defend against, really. I saw something that I see scum do more than town, I explained what that is, people disagree with me. End of Story.

I don't require your approval to have what I see to be a scumtell and act on it.

[armlx]

So, you voted Goat because he explained his vote, and expect us to not ask you WTF you mean?

[Oman]

EBWOP: I don't mind if you don't trust me, its mafia after all, but I'm looking at people other than Goat (Hence "anyone got a suspect outside me and goat") and there doesn't seem to be a whole lot going on.

[armlx]

Oman, can you at least defend your logic that what Goat did was a scum tell?

[Oman]

Okay.

Here is the best I can do.

Throughout my time playing this game I see that scum are more worried and paranoid in early game play than town is, they also become more complacent as the game progresses, thinking they have "prooved" their townieness.

At the start of a game, and early bandwagon can freak a scum out, because they feel they have not done anything to validate the rightful assult.

Scum tend to go obverse to this by trying to seem overly townie early D1.

Put these three together and you see that scum definatly don't want to be caught out D1 for putting down a meaningless vote, even though townies do it to (its a paranoia inherent in the role), for this reason scum tend to overexplain themselves when placing a vote in random, or just outside random, stages.

Thus, I found Goat's vote scummy. Then he gets rather aggressive about it, which again shows a scum who is furious a plan didn't work (i.e. "explain my vote and they won't think I'm randomly bandwagoning").

Yes, it does require a decent ammount of hypocrisy for me to call Goat on this, but that is inherent in the game (e.g. "Ahhh he's throwing suspicion onto others, he's scum" "but wait, you just through suspicion onto him....")

[armlx]

Do you have numbers to back this? Any why is this argument not just an extension of "Too Townie"

[farside22]

This is a crazy group of people the maid thinks. However with all that is going on the vote count is unchanged.

votes:
Oman 2 vote: (Goatrevolt, Armlx)
Goatrevolt 1 vote: (Oman)
Netran 2 vote: (alvinz95, Crazy)
Crazy 3 votes: (OGML, Netran, Rage)

Not voting




8 people 5 to lynch
Deadline August 17th 2:00pm PST

[Oman]

Do you have numbers to back this? Any why is this argument not just an extension of "Too Townie"

Its got nothing to do with Too Townie, you misunderstand. No Id on't have numbers. Its annecdotal not statistical.

[armlx]

So basically, you want us to accept this tell because you said so with no evidence? Can you show us times where it has been used, etc etc?

[Oman]

So basically, you want us to accept this tell because you said so with no evidence? Can you show us times where it has been used, etc etc?

I'm not telling you to accept it, I'm saying that thats cool if you don't believe me. But its what I've seen, and I've said so since the start.

And no, i'm not going to pour through old games to look for examples, because I don't do that. I've never done that.

[armlx]

I'm not telling you to accept it, I'm saying that thats cool if you don't believe me. But its what I've seen, and I've said so since the start.

But you are because in order for us to assume you aren't just using false logic to place a vote and prompt a wagon (which IS scummy) we have to believe you.

Also, I forgot to respond to you saying it was not a "Too Townie" attack. Is explaining logic not a generally pro-town thing to do?

Then he gets rather aggressive about it, which again shows a scum who is furious a plan didn't work

Or a townie who is bewildered by the sheer lack of logic behind your vote. Over reaction is not a scum tell in scenarios where the party they are reacting to is not being logical.

[Goatrevolt]

The issue is that you're attacking me for acting like town under the premise that I'm scum trying to act like town. That completely ignores the more logical explanation that I'm town acting like town. Then i attack you for your illogical vote on me, and again you assume that I'm scum overreacting to pressure, completely ignoring the just as likely if not more likely explanation that I'm town aggressively defending myself against bad logic.

[Oman]

But you're not acting town. You're acting as if you're acting town!

[armlx]

But you're not acting town. You're acting as if you're acting town!

Confirmation bias much?

[Oman]

No, no, you misunderstand.

He's not acting as town does. He's acting as scum does when trying to seem town. You must agree there is a difference.

[Netran]

The only thing from Netran that caught my attention was him basically avoiding the ongoing Me/Oman discussion and instead was pushing Rage for not random voting in his first post.

I have already said that at the very beginning I believed the case on Goatrevolt was not important and I thought (wrongly) it would be over soon, so I just tried to play the game in some other directions with a weak "case" that put weak pressure.

Also, his defense of me came after the wagon on me had dissolved. It's hardly a defense if it comes after the fact.

It was not properly a defense, it was a comment on support.


Do you want to hear about Oman?
He voted Goatrevolt basing his vote on a tell he cannot support with example. I have already repeated I see this as a weak case, and you seems to agree since some of you (Goatrevolt and armlx) are attacking him based on this.
While I think his first reason are weak I don't think they reveal anything about him being scum. His defense is consistent with his statements, so I don't even see contradiction that could help.
I can't really see him scummy from his behavior.

I think I'm actually more suspicious of Rage than Netran at this point. Don't be offended by this question, but is English your native language Netran?

No. What have you on Rage?

[farside22]

Prodding OGML. Let me know if anyone else needs to be prodded.

[Goatrevolt]

What have you on Rage?

His vote on Crazy would be the main thing for me. Here is his reasoning:

Expressed equal suspicion of both Oman and GR, but decided to vote for GR and later took it off when proven incorrect. Then he FoSed GR and took that off too. He did not consider other suspicions when pressuring GR, and didn't see GR's side until he had already taken a vote and FoS off of him. I want to know what Crazy thinks about why Goatrevolt is suspicious of Oman.

The issue is that this is a summary of events and not actual reasons

why

he thinks Crazy is scum. In other words, he put Crazy at 3 votes (L-2), but doesn't actually say anything to suggest that Crazy is scum. Bandwagon votes like this with weak or nonexistent reasoning definitely catch my eye.

Also, I find it interesting that Rage agreed with me about Oman, but then voted for Crazy and pressured Crazy for her stance on Oman. He mentions he agrees with me on Oman but just leaves it at that. No vote, or reasoning why he isn't voting for Oman. Instead he hops on the Crazy Train.

I also just have a gut feel about him based on some of the way he's worded some of his posts, but it's hard to elaborate more on that. I just get the feeling that he's trying to be careful not to step on any toes.

[Goatrevolt]

But you're not acting town. You're acting as if you're acting town!

Because I voted for armlx with reasoning?

Surely you can see that town also vote for people with reasoning as well, which is why this is weak.

[skitzer]

I personally think that the early posts of Goatrevolt were just an attempt to get the game going. Crazy said this as well, and I have to agree with it.

Crazy’s unvote after being called out by Goatrevolt is DEFINITELY suspicious.

Also, farside22, I’m not alvinz anymore.

FoS: Crazy

[OhGodMyLife]

Hi skitzer!

My vote still seems to be in a good place. I was without access unexpectedly for a couple days, I need to catch up with recent events. Will be doing that shortly.

[armlx]

But you're not acting town. You're acting as if you're acting town!

Because I voted for armlx with reasoning?

Surely you can see that town also vote for people with reasoning as well, which is why this is weak.

QFT. The only thing I can see was that your reasoning was loose, but even then its not that unusual.

[OhGodMyLife]

Oman is being very stubbornly scummy. His wagon is also righteous.

[Crazy]

At least Oman did have an explanation that made sense. I don't agree with his "anecdotal scumtell at all," but at least he had more reasoning for his vote than GR gave him credit for.