Guns & Roses IV [Game Over]

[eyestott]

Oh forget what I said. Reading this most recent page i thought he was the main wagon.

[chkflip]

It's Maria or SirCakez.

[eyestott]

I’ve just looked at the last 3 pages. Where can I find cases for and against these two players?

[eyestott]

I’m going to use random.org to decide on which person to put my vote on while I sleep.
Cause I need to sleep now.
I will be on before deadline.

[eyestott]

It told me that I should vote
When I’m confident in someone being scum
:/
I’ll see y’all in about 9 hours.

[SirCakez]

Okay, SirCakez.

SirCakez, okay.

Okay, SirCakez.

Tell me, in great detail -- nay, the

greatest

detail -- how "FaKe DrUnKpOsTiNg LoL" helps any player, of any alignment, at any point, in any game in the history of this entire website. I'm talking links. I'm talking parenthetical references.

Because if you're going to waste the game's time with that goofy shit you better put the legwork in son.

I have no idea
but tell me I'm wrong that it looks fake

@lilith, cakez, Maria, S_S -- what do you think of Iconeum?

I have been waffling on Ico all game. Apparently they have a scummy playstyle but also they are really scummy! So idk. I think he is a good shot. I would vote it but not top priority for me.

If we do lynch cakez today then I'm shooting icon, in response to your question from before, ABR.

don't worry i'm returning the favour

what does this mean?
we have a confirmed scum in the gun claims now don't we?

[votato]

Okay, SirCakez.

SirCakez, okay.

Okay, SirCakez.

Tell me, in great detail -- nay, the

greatest

detail -- how "FaKe DrUnKpOsTiNg LoL" helps any player, of any alignment, at any point, in any game in the history of this entire website. I'm talking links. I'm talking parenthetical references.

Because if you're going to waste the game's time with that goofy shit you better put the legwork in son.

I have no idea
but tell me I'm wrong that it looks fake

@lilith, cakez, Maria, S_S -- what do you think of Iconeum?

I have been waffling on Ico all game. Apparently they have a scummy playstyle but also they are really scummy! So idk. I think he is a good shot. I would vote it but not top priority for me.

If we do lynch cakez today then I'm shooting icon, in response to your question from before, ABR.

don't worry i'm returning the favour

what does this mean?
we have a confirmed scum in the gun claims now don't we?

do we? we have 2 gun claims and then ico who claimed gun and then the PT told him it was a bad idea so he unclaimed. 2(3)<4. we'd need 4 gun claims to confirm a scum among them. and 1/4 is no better than random chance.

[Something_Smart]

UNVOTE:

[votato]

with 11 hours to deadline, it would be nice if people would decide to show up...

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Knightmare

[chkflip]

Get the fuck out.

[farside22]

VOTE: Knightmare

Id be so down for this.
Completely being ignore by all as he continues to post throughout ms while doing nothing here.

@dc: abr did say he would......lets just say i lost some trust with my reads and had a panic thought processes so im going to just shut up and let each gun claim person decide whom they will shoot.
Just dont shoot each other, it helps scum.

Before the day ends each claimed gun player should say whom they will shoot.
Dont shoot what someone else claimed.

[votato]

VOTE: Knightmare

Id be so down for this.
Completely being ignore by all as he continues to post throughout ms while doing nothing here.

@dc: abr did say he would......lets just say i lost some trust with my reads and had a panic thought processes so im going to just shut up and let each gun claim person decide whom they will shoot.
Just dont shoot each other, it helps scum.

Before the day ends each claimed gun player should say whom they will shoot.
Dont shoot what someone else claimed.

at this point shouldnt we leave knightmare for day 2? i dunno, he is definitely ignoring this thread, but we gain so little info on associations from lynching him. The main thing to be gained is that I defended him i guess. he had a couple early interactions with eteyoos and chkflip, but thats it. ill get on the KM wagon if thats whats needed to have a lynch, but i think there are many better candidates, at least for today.

[lilith2013]

Spoiler: spoiling this farside post because it’s long

I also am not sure where you see that I’m scumreading you because I’m pretty sure I just said you dropped in my townreads

You’re still in my lynchpool but idk you could try to convince me on farside

Wow that was a wild read..

I don’t think DC is scum. His reactions, while not necessarily pro-town, seem genuinely frustrated and I think I would react similarly to being deathtunneled (and I think I have in the past.... like you don’t react to being deathtunneled with patience and grace unless you’re a saint, you’re obviously going to be upset about it and people who are using his reaction as a reason to scumread him are probably not thinking about how they would react to being deathtunneled or are scum).

Out of the people on the DC wagon (ABD, chkflip, vecna, farside, votato) I think there has to be 1+ scum.
- I don’t know what my ABR read is anymore because he’s being weirdly reasonable at some points but then really deathtunnely at other points.
- I think chkflip/vecna/votato votes seem opportunistic like they see ABR start to deathtunnel and go “ooh easy mislynch, I just have to let ABR do the work.”

• Votato in particular supposedly doesn’t have info on site meta and I think should have questioned the sudden change in ABR more, but at least was scumreading DC prior to ABR’s push.
  
• Chkflip was still scumreading votato until ABR started pushing and then was apparently totally fine with votato’s slot being on the same wagon as him and stopped pushing votato completely.
  
• Vecna sheeps the wagon even though he thought DC vs ABR was TvT. And there’s a weird transition back and forth in his earlier posts from being really friendly with ABR and then suspicious of him like he doesn’t want to come across as having too strong of a townread. So out of these 3 I think it might be vecna or chkflip.

- farside doesn’t want to listen to anything DC says and unfortunately I’m starting to agree with votato here that once she decides a slot is scummy she just tunnels it as if it’s confscum, which to some extent she said herself is her playstyle. The only person she didn’t do this to is ABR - why? Claims it’s because “meta” and she reread the thread but she didn’t do that for anyone else she was tunneling afaik.

I’m still good with a maria wagon

. Need to reread cakes but I’ve been townreading him up to now. Would also be down for a vecna or chkflip wagon and could be convinced on a farside vote.

yeah not 7, 6. your scumpool seems to be me, vecna, chkflip, maria, farside, ABR?

also you're OK with maria yet youre defending her and saying shes town?

Uhhh...... as I stated in my last paragraph, current lynchpool is maria, vecna, chkflip, a

nd could be convinced on farside

. Where are you seeing ABR or you in that paragraph?

I was actually questioning ABR’s reasoning which I thought was faulty logic. The ABR post may have flipped my maria read

See someone that slips in a town read to hey convince me farside is scum.
This is exactly what I see coming from a scum mind set more then town. The reason I was more suspicious of this is that ABR is a town read. But I'm curious why all you ever say is the same mind set as me, over and over as a town tell.

I mean someone else that is not maria or venca can tell me if I'm wrong about those post from Lilith.
I don't see her taking a stand and I see her leaving options for both me and maria scum but then saying she see's we could be town but then willing to vote either of us.
If I'm wrong, some one tell me why.

I removed maria from my top lynchpool already
You’re also not in my top lynchpool
Could I be convinced to vote either? Yes, but currently I’m not prepared to.
I’m not saying I have the game solved at all and I don’t try to pin down a whole team or whatever and I’m also not even saying you’re both scum

The bold above contradicts the statement made.
You have made another post that give you free reign to ride either side of the wagon. The "well she's not town, but I don't scum read her so I'm fine with that wagon"
That is many more classic line of you not figuring players out but trying to be ambious as possible in your words.

See and when I look at the meta for lilith she doesn't solely read a player as town just for being in sync with her. Like I searched many different places and I couldn't find a time that she put that as a main reason to town read someone.
(and yes that is within the rules chkflip, you can meta search a player).
So no I'm no longer sold on lilith as town. I don't see the tides changing. I don't think Cakez is scum but I don't see enough time to change this wagon around.
Sorry cakez, ABR said he would shoot venca and I can see with lilith them being scum together especially since they have barely interacted together so you are basically the goat in this game.

I don’t think you’re even reading my posts....... when I said I could be convinced to vote for you I was talking about there being 1+ scum on the DC wagon and that was my main point in the post you quoted. I don’t think it’s contradictory of me to say you’re not a scumread and also not a townread so therefore I could be convinced to vote you since you were on the wagon I think has scum.

The basis of my strongest reads when I played before was actually usually based on how in tune I feel with someone’s perspective. Unfortunately I just never paid attention to it before because when I last played mafia,

4 years ago

, I thought the best way to catch scum was to question their logic. I happen to be very different than I was 4 years ago (I mean that’s like 15% of my life that I’ve been gone from this site) so I imagine a lot about my play is going to be different and meta probably isn’t going to work that well until I’ve played more games. Behaving differently after 4 years is not a scumtell.

If you’ve chosen me as your next tunnel target I’m just not going to engage any further. Like at this point I think you’ve decided I must be scummy and will basically take anything I say and twist my words to paint me more negatively.

[DonCorleone]

VOTE: knightmare

Cakez you should join

Lilith the same

[lilith2013]

Why are you on this wagon now when you thought it was a wagon on town before?

[votato]

has anyone else noticed that the quality of DC's posts and reads has gone way down since the pressure came off? the reads seem to have changed, too.

[SirCakez]

iirc farside said there were 3 gun claims pre-Ico claim?

[SirCakez]

VOTE: knightmare fine

[farside22]

Spoiler: spoiling this farside post because it’s long

I also am not sure where you see that I’m scumreading you because I’m pretty sure I just said you dropped in my townreads

You’re still in my lynchpool but idk you could try to convince me on farside

Wow that was a wild read..

I don’t think DC is scum. His reactions, while not necessarily pro-town, seem genuinely frustrated and I think I would react similarly to being deathtunneled (and I think I have in the past.... like you don’t react to being deathtunneled with patience and grace unless you’re a saint, you’re obviously going to be upset about it and people who are using his reaction as a reason to scumread him are probably not thinking about how they would react to being deathtunneled or are scum).

Out of the people on the DC wagon (ABD, chkflip, vecna, farside, votato) I think there has to be 1+ scum.
- I don’t know what my ABR read is anymore because he’s being weirdly reasonable at some points but then really deathtunnely at other points.
- I think chkflip/vecna/votato votes seem opportunistic like they see ABR start to deathtunnel and go “ooh easy mislynch, I just have to let ABR do the work.”

• Votato in particular supposedly doesn’t have info on site meta and I think should have questioned the sudden change in ABR more, but at least was scumreading DC prior to ABR’s push.
  
• Chkflip was still scumreading votato until ABR started pushing and then was apparently totally fine with votato’s slot being on the same wagon as him and stopped pushing votato completely.
  
• Vecna sheeps the wagon even though he thought DC vs ABR was TvT. And there’s a weird transition back and forth in his earlier posts from being really friendly with ABR and then suspicious of him like he doesn’t want to come across as having too strong of a townread. So out of these 3 I think it might be vecna or chkflip.

- farside doesn’t want to listen to anything DC says and unfortunately I’m starting to agree with votato here that once she decides a slot is scummy she just tunnels it as if it’s confscum, which to some extent she said herself is her playstyle. The only person she didn’t do this to is ABR - why? Claims it’s because “meta” and she reread the thread but she didn’t do that for anyone else she was tunneling afaik.

I’m still good with a maria wagon

. Need to reread cakes but I’ve been townreading him up to now. Would also be down for a vecna or chkflip wagon and could be convinced on a farside vote.

yeah not 7, 6. your scumpool seems to be me, vecna, chkflip, maria, farside, ABR?

also you're OK with maria yet youre defending her and saying shes town?

Uhhh...... as I stated in my last paragraph, current lynchpool is maria, vecna, chkflip, a

nd could be convinced on farside

. Where are you seeing ABR or you in that paragraph?

I was actually questioning ABR’s reasoning which I thought was faulty logic. The ABR post may have flipped my maria read

See someone that slips in a town read to hey convince me farside is scum.
This is exactly what I see coming from a scum mind set more then town. The reason I was more suspicious of this is that ABR is a town read. But I'm curious why all you ever say is the same mind set as me, over and over as a town tell.

I mean someone else that is not maria or venca can tell me if I'm wrong about those post from Lilith.
I don't see her taking a stand and I see her leaving options for both me and maria scum but then saying she see's we could be town but then willing to vote either of us.
If I'm wrong, some one tell me why.

I removed maria from my top lynchpool already
You’re also not in my top lynchpool
Could I be convinced to vote either? Yes, but currently I’m not prepared to.
I’m not saying I have the game solved at all and I don’t try to pin down a whole team or whatever and I’m also not even saying you’re both scum

The bold above contradicts the statement made.
You have made another post that give you free reign to ride either side of the wagon. The "well she's not town, but I don't scum read her so I'm fine with that wagon"
That is many more classic line of you not figuring players out but trying to be ambious as possible in your words.

See and when I look at the meta for lilith she doesn't solely read a player as town just for being in sync with her. Like I searched many different places and I couldn't find a time that she put that as a main reason to town read someone.
(and yes that is within the rules chkflip, you can meta search a player).
So no I'm no longer sold on lilith as town. I don't see the tides changing. I don't think Cakez is scum but I don't see enough time to change this wagon around.
Sorry cakez, ABR said he would shoot venca and I can see with lilith them being scum together especially since they have barely interacted together so you are basically the goat in this game.

I don’t think you’re even reading my posts....... when I said I could be convinced to vote for you I was talking about there being 1+ scum on the DC wagon and that was my main point in the post you quoted. I don’t think it’s contradictory of me to say you’re not a scumread and also not a townread so therefore I could be convinced to vote you since you were on the wagon I think has scum.

The basis of my strongest reads when I played before was actually usually based on how in tune I feel with someone’s perspective. Unfortunately I just never paid attention to it before because when I last played mafia,

4 years ago

, I thought the best way to catch scum was to question their logic. I happen to be very different than I was 4 years ago (I mean that’s like 15% of my life that I’ve been gone from this site) so I imagine a lot about my play is going to be different and meta probably isn’t going to work that well until I’ve played more games. Behaving differently after 4 years is not a scumtell.

If you’ve chosen me as your next tunnel target I’m just not going to engage any further. Like at this point I think you’ve decided I must be scummy and will basically take anything I say and twist my words to paint me more negatively.

Im not tunneling you.
I think your behavior is scummy. Asking a player to convince you to find me scummy that you called scummy most of the game makes no sense.
Ive basically equated your game play as femme fatal playstyle.
Using players scum reads against other players buttering up others and claiming them town till you realize you cant ride their coat tails once their being scum read.
Its actually impressive play.
Only thing im sad about all this is i don't have a gun to shot you and i think most will ignore this post and continue letting you play that style.
But bravo, bravo.

That all said we need to consolidate our votes very soon people

[Knightmare491]

Id be so down for this.
Completely being ignore by all as he continues to post throughout ms while doing nothing here.

What do you want me to do? Go through 500 pages of shit posting? no, I'm not interested thanks.
I've given my reads and my position on the wagons. I don't see a need to do anything else.
I give you scum you refuse to lynch it, can't do anything else.

[SirCakez]

I didn't really have a SR here earlier but it is weird he is absent and I didn't like his massclaim push so whatever

[farside22]

iirc farside said there were 3 gun claims pre-Ico claim?

No just 2.
I was hoping antly 3rd claim wouldnt happen

[farside22]

I'll move to SC if needed, I had a TR on Paragon so not gonna vote Maria.

Wow you guys love blowing up the thread, will catch up ~soon.

I'm happy with my vote, okay with lynching either of eyes or S_S today.

The reads that barely moved is not really part of the game. Yes the game has a lot of post but eye said he was at leadt trying to read a few pages back to get an idea what is going on.
You come only when someone says where is knight?

[farside22]

has anyone else noticed that the quality of DC's posts and reads has gone way down since the pressure came off? the reads seem to have changed, too.

Yes.
Why?