I think Knightmare is scum,I don't see it coming from scum. It's actually NAI, I have seen a few players try to do things like this but unfortunately it is more coming from town thinking then scum trying because 95% of the time people find it scummy to do mass claim.
EBWOP:
Scum reads:
Not enough to say either way:
Iconeum
SS
Votato
Vecna
Firebringer
eyestott
Scum reads:
Albert B. Rampage
SirCakez
A few spots haven't even really posted. SS hasn't said much other then defending himself and I would like to see more thoughts about the game. Votato I go back and forth on. Firebringer hasn't towned it up and eyestott hasn't said anything that isn't NAI,
In post 781, farside22 wrote:That reminds me I should really update my list:
Top is more on the null side bottom part are scum read.
Albert B. Rampage
Iconeum
votato
paragon
DonCorleone
eyestott
What caused the change in your reads here, farside?
I’m particularly interested in why I’ve shifted downwards, given that I don’t think my content has changed a lot.
Your discussion with ss and knight just seemed like filler. I dont see you rationalizing why scum would believe mass claiming is a thing. Nor why you would see scum continue the push. You kind of floated down from there with lack of revealing insight into your reasoning after.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
He doesn’t actually take a stance on Iconeum; and he says he’ll keep his vote on chkflip but has not engaged with or tried to push that slot for a while. He’s also incorrect about chkflip’s vote being a “weak ABR vote” and he should know because he was previously in a very long-winded back and forth with chkflip accusing votato of being ABR’s partner, so he should know what chkflip’s reasons for voting ABR are.
VOTE: votato
Lilth can be town leader.
buddying lilith. not much on its own, but first instance of buddying/sheeping.
In post 733, Vecna wrote:Its just the impression I get when reading his posts. He calls shit as he sees it, isnt afraid to piss people off, and is generally just flailing about in a way id expect a towny to do that is somewhat newer to this.
Its not a strong super-confident read, and im not gonna use much energy to oppose this wagon if thats what a majority wants, but I wont be voting there,
That's fair. I don't agree with you, I think Chkflip hit the nail more closer to my thoughts.
Here is an oxymoron: viewtopic.php?p=11766721#p11766721
Knight is town for discussing massclaim, but no one else can because they are scum? He didn't point to anyone and many were discussing it because, guess what it was a discussion that Knight brought up.
Vote low hanging fruit: viewtopic.php?p=11768783#p11768783
And finally his town reads: viewtopic.php?p=11768820#p11768820
Like really, eyeslott and Paragon!
Paragon isn't even the top of my town list. He barely post and made a few points and has gone MIA since. And yes as the game goes on my read on him goes down. I see scum make a few good post and disappear after so that is why I'm on the edge with him.
But lets say he thought players discussing the massclaim were scum, why not say who and why? Why not vote for them?
He's obviously played mafia before, because he said as much. So I will not coddle a player that played and knows how to fake town tells.
I addressed some of this in 749. why is ico LHF? does being inactive make you low-hanging fruit? if so, wasnt it also scummy when you called for a wagon on inactives? how is it scummy to have certain people as town-leans? you apparently town-read paragon at the time, so why was it unacceptable for me to do the same? seems forced. Now that we've established that I'm new, can you coddle me again?
Spoiler:
In post 540, farside22 wrote:Well its good to have a list that has odds of finding scum reduced.
In no order at all. I either have no read, a gut read or scum read on the following players.
Albert B. Rampage
Iconeum
votato
Something_Smart
DonCorleone
eyestott
VOTE: abr
again, paragon as a town-read. And I still dont like having such a long scum-list and not stating reasons for your reads. I see that if scum know who the locktowns are, they know who to target. But doesn't it help even more if town forces everyone, including scum, to publicly state their reads and reasoning so we can see inconsistencies and logical flaws? By hiding your reasoning for your reads you are helping scum fly under the radar. But i guess thats more a mechanics question than an accusation. I'm new here, so if people tell me thats the way to go I guess I'll listen.
In post 738, Paragon wrote:Iconuem's been poor so far. Most of his content is talking about whether day 1 scum lynches are good, and reinforcing the fact we shouldn't lynch day 1. Any hot pings so far, Iconeum?
In post 733, Vecna wrote:Its just the impression I get when reading his posts. He calls shit as he sees it, isnt afraid to piss people off, and is generally just flailing about in a way id expect a towny to do that is somewhat newer to this.
Its not a strong super-confident read, and im not gonna use much energy to oppose this wagon if thats what a majority wants, but I wont be voting there,
That's fair. I don't agree with you, I think Chkflip hit the nail more closer to my thoughts.
Here is an oxymoron: viewtopic.php?p=11766721#p11766721
Knight is town for discussing massclaim, but no one else can because they are scum? He didn't point to anyone and many were discussing it because, guess what it was a discussion that Knight brought up.
Vote low hanging fruit: viewtopic.php?p=11768783#p11768783
And finally his town reads: viewtopic.php?p=11768820#p11768820
Like really, eyeslott and Paragon!
Paragon isn't even the top of my town list. He barely post and made a few points and has gone MIA since. And yes as the game goes on my read on him goes down. I see scum make a few good post and disappear after so that is why I'm on the edge with him.
But lets say he thought players discussing the massclaim were scum, why not say who and why? Why not vote for them?
He's obviously played mafia before, because he said as much. So I will not coddle a player that played and knows how to fake town tells.
Farside, can you explain your thought progression from “votato is a newb stop pushing him for a townslip he wouldn’t have known to make as a newb” to this post?
I never played with the guy and I thought he was newb in my head. Looking back and rereading I realized I missed that he played before and how he postured himself to know how to fake a town slip.
In short. I got tunneled onto other things.
losing points more and more for not being on the wagon you want? what, its scummy to disagree with you? Look at Ico's ISO. He really hasn't explained anything. It still seems like maybe his vote on me was a misread of someone else's post. In context, it seems like youre really reaching for things to latch onto to push this case. You're trying to look for reasons why im not new. But even not being new isn't scummy.
Lilith, Knightmare was the first to propose a strategy. Iconeum voiced opinion when it had already been established that the consensus was that we shouldn't mass claim, so it's more of any unnecessary contribution which is easy for scum to comment on.
You ignored large parts of the game and focused on one player while saying nothing about anyone else or the wagon on Votato
You seem pretty focused on me, to the point where mostly what you're currently saying about stuff other than my wagon is that people should be commenting on my wagon. Really forcing the issue of getting people to latch onto my wagon. why?
In post 763, votato wrote:im starting to think that theres one scum in {lilith, paragon, farside} based on recent interactions.
farside, so far it seems that you've read everything I've said as scum or NAI. could you be tunneling? What do you think the thought process of town!votato is? what do you think the thought process of scum!votato is?
Nope.
I don't know you as a player so I'm waiting to see what you do with what you got.
For example why is the interaction between me, lilith and Paragon look like there is scum in that group? Why did you call that group out among others that have been talking?
I think Knightmare is scum,I don't see it coming from scum. It's actually NAI, I have seen a few players try to do things like this but unfortunately it is more coming from town thinking then scum trying because 95% of the time people find it scummy to do mass claim.
EBWOP:
Scum reads:
Not enough to say either way:
Iconeum
SS
Votato
Vecna
Firebringer
eyestott
Scum reads:
Albert B. Rampage
SirCakez
A few spots haven't even really posted. SS hasn't said much other then defending himself and I would like to see more thoughts about the game. Votato I go back and forth on. Firebringer hasn't towned it up and eyestott hasn't said anything that isn't NAI,
In post 540, farside22 wrote:Well its good to have a list that has odds of finding scum reduced.
In no order at all.
I either have no read, a gut read or scum read on the following players.
Albert B. Rampage
Iconeum
votato
Something_Smart
DonCorleone
eyestott
Its a light town read. His point on SS seemed a bit forced but i liked that he doesnt care if people fight with him. Id still keep an eye on him. See if he scum hunts more and whom he pushes.
My biggest negative is he didn't say anything about votato.
so far it seems like you have way to many scum reads (isnt that usually a scum tell) and also no town reads (isnt that also generally bad form?). Could you maybe elaborate a little bit on your reads?
I bolded the part you missed.
I don't talk about town reads. Anyone not listed is either town or light town. I don't put a preference in that category because I would rather not inform scum whom I find to be the most town and have them dead.
It's cute that you want to call something a scum tell but it isn't. For me it's NAI. I would do it as either alignment because as scum it leaves options, for town I'm still trying to wade through those I can't read and want more information to determine if they are scum or town.
I mentioned my thoughts about your reads. not stating your reasons allows you to fence-sit and be wishy-washy. Im not a psychologist, but its interesting that you mentioned your scum reasoning first, like it was at the forefront of your mind. Perhaps someone more versed in psychology can comment.
Idc about his vote.
I wonder how long it will be before Votato responds to the questions ask or how long his scum buddies will try to get him off the chopping block.
any chance i can have until the end of the day, or at least until close of business? again, this seems like really forcing the issue when I said I'd get back to it.
1) should i note that you ignored players buddying me or abr buddying lilth. Or can i point out that is just cherry picking a scum tell when you don't say anything about anyone buddying anyone in the game or calling them scummy for doing so.
2) lhf and lack of posting is not in the same category. I said i was trying to get players to post. That is not scummy.
3) scum shot the most town read. As for explaining my reads i do that when i scum read someone i feel strongly about and some is POE and some is gut.
4 and 5)i wanted to see what paragon sais about you because im scum reading both of you and was looking for a reaction.
6) thats strawman logic. You go with your scummy self.
7) sure.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
In post 825, farside22 wrote:dont see you rationalizing why scum would believe mass claiming is a thing. Nor why you would see scum continue the push.
Regarding the first sentence, I don’t understand what you’re saying. Regarding the second, why would scum drop the push for the mass claim if they’re already in a TSTBS approach? It makes much more sense to commit to that, than it does to just drop it and back off if you’ve already committed, especially given the significant pluses to scum should you get people to agree.
In post 825, farside22 wrote:dont see you rationalizing why scum would believe mass claiming is a thing. Nor why you would see scum continue the push.
Regarding the first sentence, I don’t understand what you’re saying. Regarding the second, why would scum drop the push for the mass claim if they’re already in a TSTBS approach? It makes much more sense to commit to that, than it does to just drop it and back off if you’ve already committed, especially given the significant pluses to scum should you get people to agree.
Why do you think icon is scum?
Well you said you were an alt. So let me ask.....have you ever seen scum say, "lets mass claim" and then hold that view with stats?
Plus the whole scum planing ahead is a non issue when they had no clue what town picked as options.
I didn't see the tstbs approach. Can you link that?
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
Sorry, I’m a bit confused what you’re asking for, farside. I have seen (and been) scum who felt that it was better to commit to something I’d said that was going down badly than to look like I didn’t sincerely believe that thing. Be that scumreading someone who was obvtown or insisting that behaviour that was of benefit to scum must be from a scum alignment. What does “hold that view with stats” mean?
Why would scum not plan ahead anyway? Day phase was delayed by about a day from when this thread went up and we know scum can discuss their choices in PT. One very likely explanation for the delay was scum speculating on what to take and trying to plan ahead, even given their lack of knowledge. Personally, I wonder if a rose may be slightly more likely even if suboptimal with scum assuming we’d see a gun-heavy game after the rose-heavy game last time.
By the TSTBS approach, I just mean that mass claiming is really obviously pro-scum in this setup and so pushing that initially and then continuing to push it is to push something obviously pro scum — then the WIFOM of “would scum actually push something so blatantly pro-scum” starts, and that’s what I mean by the TSTBS strat.
