Mini 2136 | City That Never Sleeps [Game over!]

[acryon]

In my experience if scum takes an irrational persona it's a conscious choice in how to approach the game and how to fool the playerlist, and I sincerely don't think that Eve is that kind of player

This is the primary point in your ISO, and I disagree.

I think a skim of her town meta will show that this is her playstyle.

I've not seen many players post in such a manner as town and then subvert it when they roll scum - isn't it expected they'll carry that style?

I think a skim of her town meta will show that this is her playstyle.

I've not seen many players post in such a manner as town and then subvert it when they roll scum - isn't it expected they'll carry that style?

There always are differences. Unless a player is greatly aware of their standing in the playerlist or is the kind to post over and over again, scum players are bound to always be more careful with what they say. I think a greater scumtell for someone like Eve if they were to post way less "insane sounding stuff", if that makes sense. But again, I might be wrong. I might make a meta check to see what her scumgame looks like, but this is my intuition so far.

I'm inclined to be more in agreement with Auro here. While I do think they may be

slightly

more careful, I don't think people make drastic departures from their normal style of play typically. While I agree that way less "insane sounding stuff" would be a scumtell here, I don't agree that a close to normal amount of "insane sounding stuff" is a towntell.

[nomnomnom]

Hm, alright, so I'm checking this game for reference: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=81667
I'll post any significant finding I find when I'm through it all, but one thing is already certain, I was wrong on the bravado. Eve as scum asking a townie to 1v1 her. I guess my intuition was wrong.
Resetting the read to null and opening my mind I guess. Shouldn't take too long.

[nomnomnom]

Bonus note: through all these meta dives the biggest scumtell I have ever seen is the "why am I town" question. I don't know why but scums tend to ask that question? I've done it too and I can't rationalize why I did that, but I'm definitely seeing a pattern. Just throwing that out there, maybe I'm wrong but just pointing this out for later games.

[northsidegal]

Votecount 1.12

Target	Wagon
Allomancer (3)	nomnomnom (211), The Limit Does Not Exist (213), GuiltyLion (229)
Eve (3)	Auro (330), BBmolla (354), acryon (378)
acryon (1)	Allomancer (215)
BBmolla (1)	Eve (361)
Not Voting (3)	SausasaurusRex (219), skitter30 (231), Karnage (299)

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-03 00:18:59).

[Auro]

Why am I town?

[acryon]

Bonus note: through all these meta dives the biggest scumtell I have ever seen is the "why am I town" question. I don't know why but scums tend to ask that question? I've done it too and I can't rationalize why I did that, but I'm definitely seeing a pattern. Just throwing that out there, maybe I'm wrong but just pointing this out for later games.

I agree with you. I think it's just a classic WIFOM fallback. "Obviously scum would never question someone about why they would think they are town."

pedit:

[acryon]

@Mod

V/LA until Monday morning CDT.

[Allomancer]

I already considered that, but that would also ensure the inno'd person gets NK'd. I don't want Skitter/GL to be NK'd like that.

Nevermind.

So the postcount has over doubled since you last posted any reads. Where are they sitting right now?

I don't like Saurasaurus Rex's posts. I think Eve's shifted a bit scummier with her vote on BBmolla. I feel like you're getting a bit townier, but I still scumread you.

[skitter30]

ok i have about an hour, let's see what i can do

- i think that auo's proposal of his townbloc/coordination of it is townie, for one since he isn't advocating any particular placement for himself, but more importantly because this pov is forming how he approaches the game as a whole and how he's interacting with other slots ; i think he's thought about how to optimize this setup from a town pov and is carrying it out to the best of his ability

You said it makes you not scum with anyone out of your townblock. That's the claim that I don't accept.

this bit is a strongman

Skitter/GuiltyLion, are you both individually fine with being offwagon? I absolutely am.

sure

this is bad VCA/wagonomics IMO

unless you wanna point to specific players that you think were the scum on both wagons, you can't really make a conclusion about Allo based off Acryon wagon, especially without flips from anybody yet. And if you're starting from "both wagons happened quickly and had similar players so it's likely scum were on them" then that's assuming from the get-go that the two wagoned players are town and will bias your reads from there

well i was kinda thinking about you ...

There's pretty much no such thing as a risk with no payoff for scum. If scum stay off the wagon and aren't investigated, they look townier because they opened themselves up to getting guiltied.

but i think that here the risk (a 2/5 chance of getting investigated) would be greater than the reward (oh if i happen to not be investigated i'd like townie)
i feel like you're almost trying to shade the group of people who would end-up offwagon, which is kinda where you'd expect scum to try *not* to be

I disliked their last three posts

what made their last three posts worse than the rest of their iso?

[skitter30]

VOTE: BBMolla

having potential scum be checked should be a lot more useful to you than yourself being cleared

I'm confused?

your voting BB but critizing auro? or am i interpreting this wrong?

he's criticizing auro for (he's positing) prioritizing the potential of getting checked and cleared over getting a guilty
whereas i think auro is more trying to prioritize clearing difficult slots (and if people think he belongs in that group he's fine with it, which is probably not how scum chooses to coordinate this game)

so they're fundamentally disagreeing on how to use traffic analyst, basically
eve's complaint about auro makes sense in that context, i think, and i think he voted bbmolla for siding with him

[skitter30]

I don’t think we should follow through with the allomancer lynch. Whilst his ISO isn’t

good

, it’s not terrible either. I think the best course of action is to scumhunt a little more first, to see if anyone else seems more scummy. We have a deadline, and we may as well use all that time. If allomancer still seems the scummiest after that time, then we can lynch him. But my point is that we shouldn’t lynch him yet.

this all at once sounds: svs, wishy-washy, and throwing in platitudes to try to prevent an allo lynch (which isn't imminently happening anyways ...)

[skitter30]

I was already cooling on Eve and this recent stretch hasn't helped.

i actually thought the recent stretch was fine, for once

[skitter30]

I don’t think we should follow through with the allomancer lynch. Whilst his ISO isn’t

good

, it’s not terrible either. I think the best course of action is to scumhunt a little more first, to see if anyone else seems more scummy. We have a deadline, and we may as well use all that time. If allomancer still seems the scummiest after that time, then we can lynch him. But my point is that we shouldn’t lynch him yet.

You’re saying that on page 16 we don’t have enough info to lynch, but you were happy to say that Eve should be lynched back on page 9 for even less content than Allomancer has as of 371. What’s up with that?

- Smarter

... this is also a strawman, this is what they actually said:

Her posts don’t seem very towny, but I’m willing to overlook that as early-game banter if her play gets better. If it does not, I think she is the correct day 1 lynch, unless someone else does something worse.

he's saying that *if* she doesn't play better, she's correct lynch
that's not the same as saying she should be lynched

[skitter30]

Karnage’s tone is obvtown

when did you form this read?

[skitter30]

Whilst I feel that TheLimitDoesNotExist is clearly mafia

Really? You don't think they could be reading things wrongly, Rex?
You're 100% sure they're being disingenuous and not that there's a miscommunication somewhere?

i think they're being disingenuous, yeah
sauce is fine, i think
i think he seems to be a 'slow and steady' sort of player who wants to utilize the full time as much as possible, which is why he told us to slow our horses on allo and even now he's saying that he isn't advocating a limit lynch right now

his allo push was bad but he exhibited the same mindset in ... all three of his stated lynch/scum options (eve, allo, and limit), so i think that this is just how he approaches the game and how he feels about the best way to use our time

smart is shading your townbloc strategy, and smarter is misrepping people to push them
and smart is also a lot more passive than i'd expect him to be

[skitter30]

and smarter is misrepping people to push them

or at the very least, is repeatedly pontificating about how bad a person's post is and framing things in a negative light in order to get their point across

[skitter30]

If Smarter did not understand what I meant by the phrase “If not,” then he should have asked for clarification before making conclusions based upon it.

Ironic coming from someone who is jumping to conclusions instead of assuming good faith.

-Smart

i mean, that's kinda what your slot did here too but ok

[skitter30]

Rex, I can guarantee you 100% that the slot you're pushing is town.
Enable HH:mm::ss (optional) in account settings; then observe the timestamps of posts of both heads.

You will find that they are posting independently, and I struggle to imagine how they could possibly be coordinating that.

Then, go ahead and read a Something_Smart scum PT. You will find that he plans out a lot of things. Perhaps the Crown of Misery one, where he was scum alongside me.

Then, ask yourself if he would suddenly abandon a pattern of careful posting and planning and pursue a strategy where he and his partner freely, independently post strong stances.

Then, you tell me if you still think they're scum.

:3

i'm not following, why does posting independently indicate that they're townie here?
are you arguing that ss would be trying to coordinate their thoughts / minimize dissonance as scum here because he likes to plan things, and that if he were scum he would not be ok with Lilith posting so freely ? otherwise i'm not sure i'm understanding what you're trying to say

also, where do i find the seconds option in account settings, i was actually looking for it last night but couldn't find it

[skitter30]

Eve!

maybe but I need to go back and look at skitter again first

hi

[skitter30]

Skitter's alignment should be pretty clear once we get a scum lynch.

I don't wanna lynch Eve right now, this is mislynch bait.

how so?
i kinda agree with you on eve

[skitter30]

I don't like Saurasaurus Rex's posts. I think Eve's shifted a bit scummier with her vote on BBmolla. I feel like you're getting a bit townier, but I still scumread you.

allo why exactly are you scumreading acryon?
i'm actually kinda surprised that you're still voting acryon and not voting eve tbh?

[nomnomnom]

Skitter's alignment should be pretty clear once we get a scum lynch.

I don't wanna lynch Eve right now, this is mislynch bait.

how so?
i kinda agree with you on eve

I'd rather not reveal tells in case you are scum

[skitter30]

fair enough!

[northsidegal]

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[northsidegal]

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