Scummies 2008 Nominations! (Deadline: 1/15)

[Farkshinsoup]

A relevant question would then become "is the IC award for qualitative play or for quantitative play"

I'm not sure which is the better one to re-enforce.

I'm pretty sure that the judges could use a combination of both, in addition to how helpful they are for the newbies. I don't think it should be either qualitative play or quantitative play, as neither is really what the ICs are for. They're there to help the newbies, in addition to playing with them, so a combination of all three is probably the best way of deciding.

IMO, it should not necessarily be awarded for performance in one particular game, like many of the other awards, although particular games can be used to demonstrate why they deserve the nomination.

[Farkshinsoup]

It could be a straight quantity award. At the end of the year just tally up who signed up for the most games, and rename it "Most Prolific IC". No nominations, and maybe it will have the side effect of motivating IC's to play in even more newbie games to win the award.

[hasdgfas]

It could be a straight quantity award. At the end of the year just tally up who signed up for the most games, and rename it "Most Prolific IC". No nominations, and maybe it will have the side effect of motivating IC's to play in even more newbie games to win the award.

bad idea, it tells people to join lots of games as IC which will lower their quality of play

[gorckat]

I think a mix of quantity and quality would be best.

Signing up for one game as an IC and doing a great job shouldn't win the award, and neither should signingup for a hundred and doing a poor job.

Perhaps nominations should be made only by either newbie mods and/or IC's (kinda obv- they're the people most likely to come into contact with ICs often enough to say who has done well).

[farside22]

I was thinking that the newbie, other IC's and mod's can point out who the best IC's are. Just because someone signs up for 1 or 20 games really shouldn't be a factor. It is who is helping the newbs out, to making the game enjoyable as well as educational.

[charter]

Nominate:

Skruffs

Award:

Funniest player (or funniest post if there is one)

Game:

viewtopic.php?p=1114391#1114391

Pretty hilarious post by Skruffs in the Cop Central game.

[Skruffs]

I'd like to suggest a new category: Best IC.

To recognize the players that donate their time and MS energy to newbies and newbie games.

I think that it takes a lot of patience and skill to impart reliable and useful information to new players within an environment where paranoia and suspicion are endemic. The best ones also play the game well while they're doing it.

If you only get rewarded as an IC for winning games, then ICs will be more ruthless towards newbies. In many newbie games I have intentionally said blatantly false or scummy things to encourage the newbies to 'scumhunt' and to realize that scum do not play by the rules. I've done this as town too to show that pro-town players are not always right, too, which is a concernedly-growing trend among players as of late. If there is going to be a "Best IC" category, it should be 'ruled' by newbies; IE if a newb thinks an IC in a newbie game was helpful in teaching in some way, they should do the nominating. Otherwise it's just ICs patting themselves on the back.

[eldarad]

I don't think there should be a scummy for "Best IC" at all.
I still like the idea of an IC-invitational - that strikes me as a much better reward.

I just don't see how you can measure how good an IC is. After all, the "results" of good IC'ing are good newbies. But newbies get good through a whole range of things (or were born naturally good at mafia...)

[Farkshinsoup]

I just don't see how you can measure how good an IC is.

How does anyone get "measured" for the purposes of receiving a Scummy? Someone nominates them, and then a group of judges picks one. It's not like we need a rigorous set of criteria here.

[OhGodMyLife]

I agree with Gorc, the nominations for best IC should come from the newbies who are playing in the games.

Which means we should probably make this thread more widely known...

[MafiaSSK]

Put this thread in the Wiki?

[Yosarian2]

If you only get rewarded as an IC for winning games, then ICs will be more ruthless towards newbies. In many newbie games I have intentionally said blatantly false or scummy things to encourage the newbies to 'scumhunt' and to realize that scum do not play by the rules. I've done this as town too to show that pro-town players are not always right, too, which is a concernedly-growing trend among players as of late. If there is going to be a "Best IC" category, it should be 'ruled' by newbies; IE if a newb thinks an IC in a newbie game was helpful in teaching in some way, they should do the nominating. Otherwise it's just ICs patting themselves on the back.

Uh...if you've delibratly said false and scummy things as town in a newbie game, in a way you never would in a non-newbie game, Skruffs, all you're doing is screwing up the developing scumdar of new players. That's really what scumdar is, is that over time people start to learn from experence that people act one way as scum but a different way as town. If you're screwing with your playstyle as either one, to try to "teach" them something, you're just making it harder for them to learn how to play.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Not to be a sour puss, but...

You guys do realize that this Texas Justice has already been broken, right? The Fonz's game-breaking strategy was just a variation on the original strategy that mathcam created in the first Texas Justice mafia. It's not really anything new to see someone break this setup. I'd support best performance, but I don't think Professor Mafia fits the bill, since he didn't contribute anything new.

Really? I didn't know that. Can I see a link to what mathcam did?

Texas Justice Mafia

[skitzer]

self noms are frowned upon. Gimbo [Mason] and skitzer [Townie] were both in the team that won Mini 608.

I'm sure you guys are proud of your win, but remember that a game ends almost every single here.

your town happened to have cop+doc+masons+vig vs. godfather+RB+goon vs SK which is totally balanced in the town's favor.

I think that the setup shouldn't really matter, and it is a Fiasco setup (I just realized this, boo to XreyoX for uncreativity!) so it's relatively balanced.

Also, I think the Mafia and SK would agree that this game was played well by town.

As a final note: do you lynch 4 scum in a row in general?

[Adel]

I think that the setup shouldn't really matter, and it is a Fiasco setup (I just realized this, boo to XreyoX for uncreativity!) so it's relatively balanced.

lol. what gave you the idea that a Fiasco setup = balanced?

Also, I think the Mafia and SK would agree that this game was played well by town.

As a final note: do you lynch 4 scum in a row in general?

Phoebus held your hand aginst newbie scum, and y'all were pretty lucky to nail the godfather day 1, and have an cop investigation, doctor protection, and confirmed masons.

The game lasted all of 15 pages.

Why did you nominate yourselves as a group instead of Phoebus?

I think at this point, Phoebus most likely is town, he single-handedly got enough votes for the Slaine wagon to work.

Slaine is the player that was the godfather lynched day 1
on day 2 two votes landed on the sk, who posted

Wow. That didn't take long. I'm not mafia but you still won't like my role. Since I see no way of getting myself out of this, I might as well put everything out in the open now.

I am the serial killer. If you want to hear my views on the game, I'll be around before the hammer. And sorry for killing your vig.

Day 3 lynch was thanks to a cop investigation result of "Guilty" on one of the two remaining scum.

Day 4 had a claimed doctor (cleared by cop), cop, & a mason leaving only one townie (cleared by cop) and 1 scum.


Slaine Hayes [Godfather] - lynched Day 1 - 108 total game posts
#44 [Serial Killer] - lynched Day 2 - 59 total game posts
Dattebayo [Mafia Roleblocker] - lynched Day 3 - 122 total game posts

Gojira [Mafia Goon] - total game posts - 25 total game posts

Yeah, figured I'd probably come back to that. Ah well, gave it a shot at least. Fair bit of a tight spot, though.

Well played, particularly Phoebus. DAMN YOU

~~~

The winner of last year's scummie did the same thing as you, but without any power roles, in a setup generally believed to be balanced

against

the town. link: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5611

~~~

if you want to nominate Phoebus, go right ahead, I'm simply objecting to your self-nomination for a win that I think had more to do with fortune (Phoebus + confirmed masons, vig, cop and a doctor all in one game) than your own play.

[Falcone]

Nomination for Best Performance by an Individual (Pro-Town):

Glork

, for California Trilogy 2: Dantes in Fresno. He picked up on several people being scum (including myself) out of the blue,

sua sponte

.

Nomination for Most Enjoyable Game (Large):

Mr. Grey

for California Trilogy 2: Dantes in Fresno.

After seeing this nomination, I read through the complete Dantès in Fresno game. Day after day, my confusion grew, since Glork/Gaspar didn't seem to catch

any

scum. Imagine my surprise when I found out the outcome of the game... I suppose you meant the San Fransisco game instead?

[The Fonz]

California Trilogy I was Dantes in Fresno. GTSF is California II, where Glork caught lots of scum.

[Skruffs]

If you only get rewarded as an IC for winning games, then ICs will be more ruthless towards newbies. In many newbie games I have intentionally said blatantly false or scummy things to encourage the newbies to 'scumhunt' and to realize that scum do not play by the rules. I've done this as town too to show that pro-town players are not always right, too, which is a concernedly-growing trend among players as of late. If there is going to be a "Best IC" category, it should be 'ruled' by newbies; IE if a newb thinks an IC in a newbie game was helpful in teaching in some way, they should do the nominating. Otherwise it's just ICs patting themselves on the back.

Uh...if you've delibratly said false and scummy things as town in a newbie game, in a way you never would in a non-newbie game, Skruffs, all you're doing is screwing up the developing scumdar of new players. That's really what scumdar is, is that over time people start to learn from experence that people act one way as scum but a different way as town. If you're screwing with your playstyle as either one, to try to "teach" them something, you're just making it harder for them to learn how to play.

I disagree with you. Newbie players should not be 'taught' that experience=accuracy. Making mistakes (intentionally) encourages them to speak up, to look at things themselves. I'm not saying to mislynch or blatantly mislead players to a loss, I am saying that by positing false arguments, players can then decide for themnselves things. I've been railing against the idea of known-town players being automatically believe to be good scumhunters in a few games now. I think players get experienced/town confused with 'good'.

Anyways.765

[Yosarian2]

I disagree with you. Newbie players should not be 'taught' that experience=accuracy. Making mistakes (intentionally) encourages them to speak up, to look at things themselves. I'm not saying to mislynch or blatantly mislead players to a loss, I am saying that by positing false arguments, players can then decide for themnselves things. I've been railing against the idea of known-town players being automatically believe to be good scumhunters in a few games now. I think players get experienced/town confused with 'good'.

Anyways.765

Uh...if you do your best, you'll still be wrong sometimes. That's a part of mafia, and that's what they should see. Delibratly making mistakes might just encourage them to make those same mistakes later, after seeing an IC do it.

Besides, usually, if I catch someone delibratly making a bad argument, it means they're scum. If you're making delibratly bad arguments as town, you're just training them to think that town makes bad argumnts, and that totally screwes up their scumda, and encourages them to make bad arguments as town in the future.

Anyway, some people really are better scumhunters then others. It sometimes correlates with experence, although not always. So what?

[Skruffs]

Well you don't, obviously, deliberately make a bad argument. You don't say that 2+2=5. But making an argument that can be refuted encourages the newbies to do so.

[Thestatusquo]

I think skruffs is wrong here (as much as I love him)

The best way to teach newbs is to play just like you would in a real game. And I wouldn't be doing anything but my best in a real game...Sooooo. Yeah.

[darkdude]

Nominate:

cicero

Award:

Most Enjoyable Mini (Normal)

Game:

Normal Mini 626

[forbiddanlight]

Second dd's nomination. Though I'm kinda pissed at how nerftastic my role was, lol.

[Goatrevolt]

I'll third DD's nomination. That game was tons of fun.

[Matin]

4th