Newbie 626 - Completed Successfully (dependent on town POV)

[Syzygy]

Hi y'all, I'm be replacing someone....don't know who yet

[Syzygy]

Ok I've read thru the pages, and to be honest I don't know what MamaLuigi was high on was he was in this game.

I generally do not understand any of his actions nor can I offer any explanations. With that I'll like to offer some fresh thoughts.

Right now my main problem with the game is not really knowing exactly who's who, with all the replacements coming in and out and people being active/not active, I can't really identify each player that well, hopefully it'll get better as time goes on. However 2 people did struck me while reading the game.

Freckles; here are the highlights of you

1) Overreaction to the L-2 situation with neko
2) Voting for Grimmy because you believed the case against Grimmy was very 'clear'
3) The forced comment of 'anger' at scum for killing Kang...I mean, I know you are a newbie (my join date is deceiving)...but scumtell much?

I do not like the fact that Indigo Heron is leading us into deep WIFOM territory with the NK analysis, if you go read other newbie games, you'll find that very often, the players who tries to explain the NKs are very often scums themselves; reason? Well, its called the Scum's Conscience, being anti-town, you actively seek ways to behave pro-town like, up to the point of it being obviously forced.

P.S. With Grimmy dead yesterday, neko will probably be under some fire for his case on Grimmy yesterday but I think any discussion should be on his play in general and not specifically his case on Grimmy; it gets extremely WIFOMy when you try to analyze whether neko is scum or not because he killed a townie.

P.P.S. I've prepared a little surprise for the scums...wait for it

[Syzygy]

With 2 townies dead, I well now do the following.

Okay, the written text below was first used by Mastermind of Sin in Newbie 540. Therefore, while I am using it here, all credit goes to him along with much appreciation. Without further ado:

----------
I'm going to start off by claiming.

I am the doctor

. Now, your first reaction may be, "Why is he claiming that he's the doctor? That's just going to get him killed...". Your second reaction may be to assume that this is some sort of scum gambit. I suggest you think things through carefully before you act on this, though.

My claim does a number of things:

1) If I am not actually the doctor, the doctor should NOT counterclaim me. I repeat, do NOT counterclaim. That would be stupid, and it would only further my own goals if I am scum.
2) Since there is no counterclaim, the mafia do not know if I really am the doctor. They will be stuck in a perilous circle of wifom that will paralyze their actions at night. They will probably try to get me lynched so that they don't have to worry about nightkilling me.
3) Since the mafia have to figure out whether or not to nightkill me, we have some options to complicate things for them. *If* I am not the doctor, the doctor can either choose to protect me to nullify the mafia's kill for the night, or not protect me and let me die. Either way, something good happens (power role won't get killed). I would die as a townie and draw the mafia's kill, or the mafia would not get a kill that night. It all depends on whether or not the real doctor believes I am town pulling this gambit or mafia pulling it.
4) As the real doctor in the open, I can operate on a grander scale than normal and manipulate the mafia, whether they like it or not. Since my claim is already out in the open, there is nothing to hold me back when I take action.
5) The benefits of this plan may not seem obvious to you, and that's good. That means it shouldn't be obvious to the mafia, either. It's not supposed to be. This plan is tricky and hard to pull off, and it depends entirely on what the mafia decide to do about it. I'm counting on the WIFOM behind all this to trick them into making the wrong move, which will allow the town to be victorious.

I think that about covers it. Alright mafia, bring on the votes. I'm ready for ya.

[Syzygy]

In another game where I tried the above, I got smashed because of LAL, so please all I ask (of townies at the least) is to hold off on the LAL policy (since it is possible* that I'm lying) and really think about it before making rash decisions.

[Syzygy]

@Amor: What were we supposed to do? I wanted to generate some discussion in this 'dead-end' game by voting for him.

I was also trying to see which of the scum would follow in my footsteps by adding votes to the vote count for Mamaluigi

, bringing him closer (but not enough to actally do so) to lynch him.

The bolded part above is scummy as hell. You were obviously not voting me to 'get reactions' from mafia, that plus your NK-analysis give you this

Vote: Indigo Heron

[Syzygy]

Mispeled, please remember that that piece of text was word by word from Mastermind of Sin, yes that last part seems to be a bit selfish, but to think that this whole plan is selfish is just way out there. Because of what I've wrote, I'll most likely be the NK tonight, this being a Newbie game I don't see how scums will let me live to tomorrow.

My claim of course doesn't confirm me. However, whether it'll work depends on 1) whether I'm really the doctor and 2) if I am not, whether the doctor believes that I am town and 3)If I am the doctor, then how the mafia's NK will go tonight.

[Syzygy]

Ok, finally had a chance to read everything a few times:


IMO, Grimmy, and Neko are pushing buttons and that leaves me wondering a little about what is behind it.

Not sure about a lot of the early action from Mispeled and Freckles..still undecided on them and will see how it plays out.

Have doubts about Mama Luigi's intentions based on a couple comments....but low on list

Kang, and Mccleod haven't given me much to go on but

Kang was on my suspicious list until I realized his last post was June 11th from what I could tell.

Occult is a wild card right now IMO and really can't place my finger on it but.

Indigo's Predecessor: lots of fence-sitting, being good to all sides. Not alot of scum-hunting or targetting anyone. Didn't vote on D1, was suspicious of Kang even though Kang had like 4 posts in this game and now he's dead....yea...definitely content with my vote on Indigo Heron.

Sorry, I know you are a replacement, so am I, I guess we

[Syzygy]

EBWOP: I guess we get the short end of the deal having to justify other people's crap, lol

[Syzygy]

Lol, I'm not his alt. though I do admire his play...I use my Join Date as a guise to join Newbie Games as a newbie and harass newbies, its fun (sorry guys!)

[Syzygy]

Mispeled, ever heard of WIFOM?

[Syzygy]

Ok, NC. There are now 7 players in this game, having lost 2 townies on D1 and N1. We have to lynch a scum today or tomorrow it's LyLo. Like I said, if I am not the doctor and the doctor does exist, then it all really depend on whether the doctor believe that I am scum or town pulling this gambit.

NC, you mentioned that this gambit could possibly give the scum too much info, but this game can last a maximum of 4 days assuming we lynch scum today, lynch town tomorrow, and LyLo on Day 4. I do not see how even if the mafia does get information, it helps them in anyway. If anyone try to rolefish EVER, I'll personally nail their behinds and the scums have to choose a NK regardless of which setup it is in hopes of killing the one most likely to be a power-role (again, REGARDLESS of whether power roles exist, they have to try anyways) so IMHO, mafia doesn't benefit from this gambit at all.

In addition, keep in mind that this is a SOFT claim, which means that just because I claimed* to be a doctor doesn't mean that it necessarily give the mafia ANY new info. if anything, it will drive them crazy and in a circle of WIFOM (praying here that one of the ICs isn't scum, let scums be newbies please!)

The last setup that I tried this in was different than this one so I'll have to wait to see how it pans out. However, town will be screwed regardless of my role if I am to be lynched. This is because I know I am pro-town, I can say that much and my lynch today means LyLo tomorrow for town no matter what.

The reason why a Doctor shouldn't counterclaim me is because if I am not a doctor and I get lynched as a townie, there exists the possibility of the doctor (existent or not) surviving to D3 whereas if the real Doctor does counterclaim somehow, he/she will be NKed for sure. The reason is that even if there are multiple Doctor counterclaims, all of them must be made by scums except possibly one since I don't think any townie in this game will be as adventurous as me (if I am a townie) to counterclaim with a fakeclaim as Doctor while being town.

In fact, if we get 2 additional Doctor counterclaims, it'll be a great thing because at least 1 of them will be made by scum (if not both since the other 1 might be the real one).

Thus by logic, I don't forsee any counterclaims today. The key aspect of the gambit is whether the real Doctor (if I am not it) have faith in me despite me lying.

In fact, if we can waste at least 1 of the mafia's NK, we get one extra day and in a game which only last max 3/4 days, to get in another day will be optimal.

I'll put in more details later, kinda busy right now.

[Syzygy]

Indigo Heron: hypothetical question, if you were scum, what will you do tonight assuming I survive the night? What is you position on my claim right now?

[Syzygy]

Indigo Heron: hypothetical question, if you were scum, what will you do tonight assuming I survive the night? What is you position on my claim right now?

Well, if I was scum, that would depend on whether I was targeting you or not. I'm also not very sure about the context of the question, can you delve a little deeper into it?

I second New Coldness about the position on your claim. I don't want to lynch a soft-claimed doctor, but I will lynch a liar (if one or both of the scum have not been revealed by then, and if said lynching does not put us in an automatically losing situation). Whether you're a liar or not, we'll see soon enough. Really, it all depends on how the day goes, and who the scum assassinate.

What's an MOS-follower, neko?

nvm the other part, MoS is a player on this forum: Mastermind of Sin.

[Syzygy]

I dont' want to be forced to L-1. I might have overestimated the benefits but ok, here's the HARD claim, I am actually just a VANILLA TOWN.

In Newbie 540, the setup was open and eveyrone knows that there was a cop, a and a mafia roleblocker while in this game, the setup is tricky and this gambit does nothing because town doesn't know the setup. I overlooked that part and I am hugely embarrassed because of this error (such a bad start on my meta).

Of course, like any claims, you have the option to doubt it, but that's up to you. I like to point everyone's attention to Indigo Heron (sorry I.H reminds me of the player IH, lol) and his reaction to my gambit on the page back, like I said, scummy as hell.

P.S. Okay, that sounds like me directing the attention away from myself, so I'll say that you should feel free to question me more, but Heron should get scrutinized for his posts on the last page.

[Syzygy]

^ay, a bit defensive there.

EBWOP in my post 215: the game Newbie 540 has a doctor, a cop and a mafia roleblocker, so there was no questions about roles and that was why the gambit worked in that game (to an extent).

I totally overlooked the setup info in the 1st post *sigh*

[Syzygy]

trust me NC, I'm feel very embarrassed right now, being that I'm not suppose to make such a newbie mistake

[Syzygy]

why is this game kinda dead?

[Syzygy]

scummy as hell (referring to I.H's post about his vote on Mama).

but hey like you said, my total screw-up really does look pretty bad for me, but I don't want to use tautology and be like 'I'm town, I'm town, I'm town ......!!!!"

...which of course never works regardless of what my role is, lol

[Syzygy]

LOL, I technically broke the newbie rule (?). I'm in other large themes and mini themes.

I don't think you have to 'complete' a game to really be an IC, it's more the Post Count since some Large Themes could go on for up to half a year.

Besides, anyone can make an alt. it's not that hard to do.

[Syzygy]

Freckles, seeing as you've been inactive for quite some time, regurgitating the cases on the last 1 or 2 pages isn't going to do. Please pick up where you left off.

IGMEOY: Freckles

[Syzygy]

Okay, so syz is somebody's alt account, right?

FAIL

IGMEOY: Amor

this is mafia, now start talking about mafia.

[Syzygy]

I "IGMEOY" on the 2 players who's been inactive and when they finally posted, ... posted crap.

NC, your suspicion is understandable considering my total wtf behavior when i claimed *sigh* and I hope that as time passes, it will get cleared up, certainly don't want LyLo tomorow.