Open 83 - Polygamist Mafia (Game over!) before 628

[SpyreX]

... what?

[forbiddanlight]

I'd vote Chelsea or Chenhsi myself. Though I'd consider Harvey or Zeek also.

[Firestarter]

Ive already stated my case... Chelsea/Chenhsi are my main suspects as scum.

[Adel]

I'm happy with my vote. I listened to my lover last time and abandoned the chlsea wagon, so I'm going to follow my own understanding of where this game is at and follow what I feel is the best course of action.

Does anyone else want to follow me on the forbiddanlight wagon?

[chenhsi]

Sure!

[Firestarter]

@Adel.. who is the scum-match of Forbidden/Knight?

@Spyrex... What are thoughts on the previous pages events?

@Nameless... I'd also like to hear your views since my large post on the previous page.

[forbiddanlight]

Does anyone else want to follow me on the forbiddanlight wagon?

Yeah, scum does. You'll see them jumping on soon. Assuming you or Chelsea isn't.

[Adel]

@Adel.. who is the scum-match of Forbidden/Knight?

whomever doesn't vote for him

[SpyreX]

@Spyrex... What are thoughts on the previous pages events?

Well, the fact 4 pairs voted bothers me a LOT.
Harvey's vote irritates me
Chenshi's I'll vote for anyone but us really gets under my skin.

I dont know what I think about the forbidden vote at all. Yes, ultimately its a 50-50 shot but I think with some deduction we can definitely win it.

[ZeekLTK]

I initially suspected Fire & Adel because of their little conversation about "who is Gimbo's partner?" on Day 1 where Fire listed EVERYONE other than his and Adel's as possible pairs for Gimbo... then he asked Adel and Adel gave a similar list except he left off Chelsea (but he also did not include Fire).

It was a small thing but it caught my attention. I would think that being so few pairs, it was odd that NEITHER of them considered the other to possibly be scum.

Then this gem from a few pages ago:

There is also the pairing of Adel & Spyrex.
Most of the posts from this pairing have contained alot of sense, and experience, that is clear. But the really odd thing is the removal of the votes on Gimbo from both of them... and stating that they would be placing their votes back on Gimbo regardless of hammer or not???
This is even more baffling because if there was a major change/mishap/occurence/ in the time that the vote was removed up to the point that they both re-voted, would it have made a difference??? Spyrex himself said that he was not gonna change his mind, as that would have made him look scummy.
Given Gimbo's play, its clear why you suspected Gimbo so much, we all did,, but you did not leave scope to look at other avenues, after unvoting for discussion????
My concern here is the "hardened commitment" to Gimbo.
Saying that, I think that this pairing is the most townish left from the 4 other groups.

He basically attacks Adel/SpyreX (for good reason!) but then says "oh, but other than that they are the most townish". What? That is very odd play from BOTH Adel and SpyreX that you pointed out, but then you just sweep it under the rug at the end of the post? It makes me think he's just making it look like he is attacking them (distancing) but then reminding us not to vote for them because they are "most likely to be townie".

So that's two connections... but I admit they aren't that strong (which is why they weren't my TOP suspects).

Also as soon as Harvey (who I know is town) cast the first vote of the day then all kinds of chaos ensues... Adel immediately votes with Harvey, but then quickly changes it to forbidden (maybe realized it was too opportunistic and wanted to thorw attention elsewhere?)...


However, I would have to say I am still leaning towards voting for forbidden at the moment partially because of what happened earlier in the game (how he got so defensive over a simple recap), the various other things he did on Day 1, and then today after Harvey votes he says "well, hold on a second" but then as soon as Adel puts on vote #2 forbidden does the fasted 180 ever and puts on vote #3 (so, Adel's change is somewhat justified, but I found his sudden vote odd too) just 4 minutes after saying "NO ONE ELSE VOTE CHELSEA".

Also due to the fact that everyone is paranoid of being in LyLo at this situation, I would not discount mafia voting for each other early on knowing that it won't lead to a lynch.

For example, if forbidden/Chelsea are scum as I initially suggested (and still suspect) at the beginning of the day, forbidden's vote on Chelsea was a great act of distancing because now everyone questions whether they are working together and in the end it never really caused Chelsea to be in danger of being lynched (it has actually done the opposite and derailed the bandwagon, it also has SpyreX publicly doubting Chelsea being scum because of the votes he received so far)...

So, in conclusion... hmmm... I need to read it over more, but I figured I would at least explain my suspicion of Adel/SpyreX/Firestarter/Nameless, though I still think forbidden is scummier (as I initially said).

[ZeekLTK]

EBWOP: "fasted" = "fastest"... dunno how I made that typo lol

[Firestarter]

I pointed out what I thought was odd with Adel/Spyrex at the time, and tbh, there wasn't much anything else I found wrong with them beforehand.

CF/Chenhsi, you/HP, and Forbidden/Knight, before the Gimbo lynch, from my read are scummier than the pairing of A/S, thats why they were not above either of the 3 before-mentioned pairings. But there was the "Dedicated hammer" from Sprex/Adel on Gimbo, I need to look at this closer.
In saying that, Im not gonna rule out Spyrex/Adel being one half of the scum group, possibly with Chelsea/Chenhsi.

@Adel.. who is the scum-match of Forbidden/Knight?

whomever doesn't vote for him

By the time you find out who hasn't voted for them, they will be lynched if the remaining 6 place their votes, as you seem to see happening with your post. Thats a risky gamble, considering the stage we are at.
And if both you & Spyrex were to refrain from voting until the hammer, which you did in D1, then another possible scum group could be Spyrex/Adel ~ + one of the voting pairs.
I dont like it the way you seem to be directing this, see who will vote for Forbidden/Knight, and give off the impression that your scumhunting, when its quite possible that you are scum with one of the voting pairs.
If Spyrex/Adel refrain from voting for Forbidden/Knight, then the other 6 players vote, that would be enough for a lynching.

There are alot of different permutations running through my head at this moment I cant think properly.

Ill come back to this later today, with hopefully a fresher mind.

[Adel]

@firestarteer: you are missing a very important detail.

~~~

I see your point.

unvote, vote:Chelseafan

I can see Chelseafan being scum without Ginbo being scum, but I can't see Gimbo being scum without Chelseafan also being scum.

I also notice the point on Chelsea, and am unsure whether I agree with it. OH YEAH! I promised to point out some fallacies, didn't I! Let's do that now.

-- day 2 --

Um...I think most of us don't know what to do next. I'm analyzing another game right now, so one of the megaposts I've taken to doing won't be coming today anyway, not for this game. If it's required, I'll do one, but for now, I do kinda agree with the possibility of a Chelsea lynch.

...missing that the entire point of a chelsea lynch was to confirm gimbo

And this is why I'm happy that it's 6 to lynch. NO ONE ELSE VOTE CHELSEA, at least until we've agree that's the best course of action. That said, I actually quite agree with SpyreX's analyis, and would be fine with a Chelsea lynch. He makes the most logical since, and his play has been somewhat lackluster too. (yeah, I know, pot calling the kettle black). Also, how long as it been since Knight has posted?

I think I need a divorce, mod! I'd like to remarry though

then there was this qick exchange:

And this is why I'm happy that it's 6 to lynch. NO ONE ELSE VOTE CHELSEA

vote:Chelseafan

'sup

Alright, fine, if the scum fuck us over don't say I didn't warn you.

vote:Chelseafan

It's kinda pointless now to stop it. However, with Knight gone, if we are right, scum won't jump on the wagon. Chelsea will be stuck at L-1.

unvote, vote:forbiddanlight

why were you so quick to change your mind?

Because if Chelsea is scum, my vote doesn't affect anything except by bringing him closer to a successful lynch. If he was town, the scum are going to pile on it anyway, and I wanted to have a measure of control over that. I anticipated the vote would switch to me when I did that. Guess what we are back at? 2 votes on Chelsea. I can now pull it back if the scum jump Chelsea. I'm also confident I'll be around to do that. It's a security measure. You can kill me if you like for it, just that you'll lose the game.

Also, if I'm scum, that means the scum also needs another town vote to kill Chelsea. If I'm town, it's a risk, but I think it'll pay off. Harvey could be scum too, which makes this plan possibly useless...but I want to see what happens.

No one has really laid out a case againts Chlseafan, except the one I made that would've used a Chlsea lynch to confirm Gimbo. There is no way for us to know if Gimbo had scum from two groups or only on on him.

All of us who are town have the exactly the same perspective: there are two other town pairs and two scum pairs. 50-50. I don’t know what forbiddanlight’s vote on Chlsea was for, it could be a distancing measure or it could’ve been a vain hope for a quicklynch...

@forbiddanlight: how many forum mafia games have you completed, and what sites have you played on? Are you a new player or an experienced player?

[Adel]

@forbiddanlight:
1. how many forum mafia games have you completed?
2. what sites have you played on?
3. In general, are you a new player or an experienced player?
4. When did you read the previous run of the last Polygamist Mafia?
5. Did you read all of it? Which parts?

[Firestarter]

Ive played in a previous game with Forbidden, and if my memory serves me correct, she said she played mafia in other fora...

She even tried a gambit similar to Gimbo's here, similar in that both were ludicrous and both eventually got lynched as townies.

However, her play style is dramatically different in this game. She was quick out of the blocks in the other game, but was more subdued in D1 here... letting her partner do his stuff..

Although they can be useful, Im not a huge fan of meta's ... so Im not gonna stick all my eggs into that basket, but there is a noticeable difference in playstyle between the 2 games.

[Chelseafan]

So basically what your saying is that if the rest of us had noticed it, and decided that that was the way to go, that you'd have been happy with that???
Nope, you said the only reason you would not go ahead with it was because it was you....
If you are town, and you did say you noticed it, why are you questioning everyone else so much about it?

If you are town, then the logic behind your questioning is that if everyone had agreed to it, you would have made the sacrifice.... But you didn't...

I wouldn't say I would have been

happy

with it. I could have understood the logic behind it.

What does your 3rd sentence here mean"and you did say you noticed it",? I did notice it, I even responded to Adel about it.. Why am I questioning..well let me see I find it surprising, perhaps even impossible that no one else seemed to notice it, at all. That's not strange to you?

Make a sacrafice? I'm not going to lynch myself , as as good a plan as it was hitting scum would have been better, and I know I'm not scum.
And if everyone had agreed then it's not like I would have had much choice anyway, as people could have lynched me. That didn't happen though.

Also chenhsi please contribute a bit more, I've tried to stay active but you're 1 liners don't help anyone.

I'd vote for Forbidanlight if I had to vote at this moment I think.
I don't like him putting another vote on me when he did. Damn this game is always active when I'm asleep or at work it seems

[Firestarter]

What does your 3rd sentence here mean"and you did say you noticed it",? I did notice it, I even responded to Adel about it..

The reason I state this is because you made a big deal of questioning why nobody acted on it...

after the fact.

There were 2 posts from you after the Gimbo lynch that seems to me that you would have been happy being lynched, but that was simply not the case beforehand.

[Chelseafan]

I pointed it our before hand as well, responding to Adel.

SpyreX also pointed it out that he missed it, I found it strange that no-one else decided to comment on it.
Did you see it the first time?

Although I suppose hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Chelseafan]

Where did the plan go of testing Gimbo's innocence by lynching me? Now we're really back to square one

Well the plan was out there though, I don't think it was that bad as I believe I said.
I find it hard to believe though that no one noticed it apart from me, in fact I'm pretty sure the scum would have noticed it and chosen not to comment it.

Are these the 2 posts you're talking about?

I wouldn't say these posts indicate I was happy to be lynched, maybe you read thought that way but that wasn't really my intention. I was more-so pissed that we were at lylo already and the fact that the plan was pretty much ignored in the rush to lynch Gimbo.

quote tags fixed - mod

[Firestarter]

Yes, they are the 2 posts, but the fact they came so early

After

Gimbo's lynch is suspsicous to me.

And your right, Spyrex did also miss it first time round, and althoguh I seen it also, it did not seem to be significant when it was posted.

The fact that Gimbo questioned it, Adel told him to read up, and Adel not pushing her original thought are reasons why it was not followed upon at the time.

I think the fact that Spyrex seemed to also not notice it, put his partner, Adel off of following it up. Hence the 2 votes from Spyrex, then Adel on Gimbo.

[forbiddanlight]

1. how many forum mafia games have you completed? Let's see...I think 21, if memory serves correctly.

2. what sites have you played on? DDRFreak, Spies 5, and Bemanistyle (note, if you want to completely kill any skill you might have had, play at that last one)

3. In general, are you a new player or an experienced player? I'm considered mid tier at most of my home forums. Probably very low tier here.

4. When did you read the previous run of the last Polygamist Mafia? I didn't. I probably SHOULD have, but I basically went into this game blind. Which partially explains the subduedness because I have no idea what to do except try to hunt scum.

5. Did you read all of it? Which parts? See 4

Answered in quote.

All of us who are town have the exactly the same perspective: there are two other town pairs and two scum pairs. 50-50. I don’t know what forbiddanlight’s vote on Chlsea was for, it could be a distancing measure or it could’ve been a vain hope for a quicklynch...

Neither. It was WYSIWYG. I honestly meant what I said that I planned to see if anyone would jump on Chelsea so I could retract quickly and we'd have hopefully some scum there, or a reasonably WIFOMtastic proof that Chelsea was scum. I retracted when the wagon started forming on me since the scum would have had a town target to hit with all four of themselves, provided none of my voters were scum. And now here we are.

[SpyreX]

Ok, its officially really irritating that we have people that aren't posting at this point. It would be nice to get all the viewpoints.

But there was the "Dedicated hammer" from Sprex/Adel on Gimbo, I need to look at this closer.

It wasn't a stealth hammer, it wasn't anything like that. I simply said that, on Sunday, I was putting my vote back. Earlier Adel took her vote off and said she'd hammer with me (if I did). We did exactly what we said we would - if anyone had doubts about that lynch, including you, all you had to do was take your vote off if you wanted more discussion.

Now, that last few days before the lynch for me were crazy busy. I said I was going to do a full reread and, while I was doing it on Sunday at midnight I got to page 8 or 9 (I cant remember) and started falling asleep. So, I finished up that page and hammered like I said I would.

If I had gotten up to where Adel suggested the Chelsea lynch in my reread and thought about it I would have suggested it as a different course. As it was, I said I was voting and I was not about to do different.

By the time you find out who hasn't voted for them, they will be lynched if the remaining 6 place their votes, as you seem to see happening with your post. Thats a risky gamble, considering the stage we are at.

The only way town can win this is if all the town decide on a target. Scum, of course, wont keep their vote on scum so the scum-match of course would be the non-voters. However, in this setup, we're gonna get nowhere fast unless everyone is active.

And if both you & Spyrex were to refrain from voting until the hammer, which you did in D1, then another possible scum group could be Spyrex/Adel ~ + one of the voting pairs.

I'm not refraining from voting or waiting for a hammer. I'm not voting right now because we need more discussion before we move ahead with anything.

I dont like it the way you seem to be directing this, see who will vote for Forbidden/Knight, and give off the impression that your scumhunting, when its quite possible that you are scum with one of the voting pairs.
If Spyrex/Adel refrain from voting for Forbidden/Knight, then the other 6 players vote, that would be enough for a lynching.

How are we directing anything? Hell, I just wanted people to talk and thats what spurred all of this. This game has become complacent and that only helps the scum.

As for the other part, as I said before, ultimately the only way the town can win this is if the 6 of us that are town all choose and vote together. If we refrain from voting and Forbidden is scum, there will not be enough to lynch.



What bothers me the most about this whole post is the fact that everyone active jumped without real question, including voting, on Chelsea. Adel switches her vote to forbidden and is receiving more questioning from Firestarter than from Forbidden herself. As it sits, I really dont like this at all and its making me think that, probably due to Gimbo's play, the scum all sat on the safelynch.

If ANYONE had said something concerete about the Chelsea lynch day 1 I think we'd have this game done. It goes without question, of course, that scum would not have wanted to follow the Chelsea plan regardless of her alignment. I'm kind of in and out, but if anyone wants to read back about the events around when Adel suggested it to begin with, let me know.

[Firestarter]

Ok, first off...

MOD: Can we have prods on all current inactives please!

The way the last page has panned out, and this, I cant rule anyone out Spyrex, and that includes who I thought to be the least scummiest pair at one stage, you & Adel.

I want to hear opinions from everyone however, as this game will inevitably stall...

There are plenty of posts for the rest to digest, but I'd also like to hear different, if any, viewpoints.

[Adel]

It would be very helpful if each pair of lovers could identify one other pair they feel is confident of being town.

[forbiddanlight]

You wanna know who I feel is town? Spyrex. As such, that includes you Adel, even if I disagree with your current vote (obviously).