Open 83 - Polygamist Mafia (Game over!) before 628

[eldarad]

It is now Day 2. With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[Chelseafan]

Where did the plan go of testing Gimbo's innocence by lynching me? Now we're really back to square one.

Intent to vote Harvey Pew at the moment.

Obviously not voting as another misplaced vote could mean scum could hammer if Harvey is not scum/

[Harvey Pew]

Who wants to do the leg work to disprove this?

Votes on Gimbo
vote added Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:33 pm
vote added Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:05 pm
vote added Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:22 pm
vote removed Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:52 pm
vote added Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:22 pm
vote added Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:35 pm
vote added Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:19 pm
vote removed Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:45 pm
vote added Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:42 am
vote removed Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:04 am
vote added Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:09 am
vote removed Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:12 pm HP
vote added Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:05 am
voted added Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:35 am

Unfortunately I think I missed a vote somewhere, but my next post post-lynch on mafiascum is at Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:21 am. I am hours out of synch one way or the other.

[Nameless]

I'll be doing a reread and giving my thoughts on each player soon (probably ~12 hours from now), but I'm just chiming in to say:

Obviously not voting as another misplaced vote could mean scum could hammer if Harvey is not scum/

QFT. I suggest for the time being everyone uses HoS to indicate an intended vote.

[Gimbo]

bah go town!

[forbiddanlight]

Well, it's your fault with the WIFOM spiral of death, Gimbo!

Ugh...this sucks hard. I know I promised a reread forever ago, but life got in the way rather annoyingly. I'll try to do one tonight since I SHOULD be around.

[Gimbo]

^ shut up, scum!

[Adel]

Rules

• Once you are lynched, stop posting. Don't even make a 'bah' post. If your lover is lynched, resist the temptation to post a Romeo and Juliet style 'bah' post.

Two willing violations of a rule is a bad thing.

[SpyreX]

Ok, I'll finsih up my synopsis today.

DO NOT VOTE - FoS's and the like. We dont want to get to 2 and, if we're wrong, go boom.

If someone, while I'm gone, wants to show all the possible pairings, that might help.

[Harvey Pew]

Two willing violations of a rule is a bad thing.

I don't see Gimbo caring about that.

[SpyreX]

Back into the fire.

Page 9:

Forbid says she's not going to blindly vote with her lover (good)
Knight says he's ok with lynching Gimbo THEN me (bad)
Forbid tells him this is bad. Votes Gimbo
Knight votes Gimbo, FoS's Firestarter (hmm)
I tell Knight he needs to be more open, he points me to his FoS (hmm)
Gimbo wants more discussion from the quiet pairs - I agree.
Harvey says his partner is gone and Nameless and Firestarter need a prod.
Firestarter's large post (213). Key points:

• He says Gimbo's scumclaim is bad, but the plan held more merit.
  He says that Adel and I are not giving reasoning (page 4)
  He bolds my statement "regardless of alignnment" like it's some magic tell.
  He, again, makes reference to Adel being scummy by not being a "team player"
  Says that Knight is an easy target for Gimbo.
  Says he has a very townish feel for Forbid / Knight.
  Votes for Gimbo

Adel asks Firestarter for who he thinks the scumpartners are.
Gimbo gives up, then immediately switches to not hammering him for more discussion.
Adel votes Knight until he answers who SpyreX's lover is.
Firestarter says who could be gimbo's partners.
Adel and Firestarter ask back and forth who they think Gimbo's partner could be.

Synopsis:

I really, again, don't like Knights play here. He gave an unexplained FoS as showing he's more open to not me the next day. Also, now espeicially considering Gimbo's flip - I'm really leery about Firestarter. His large post was focused on Adel and I and his repsonse listed everyone besides Harvey / SSK as partners.

Page 10:

Adel says she's looking at Harvey and Forbid, but they are both voting for Gimbo. Suspects a forbid / Knight / Gimbo / Flea scum setup. Says she'll wait before going through to lynch on Gimbo.
Knight says he's not moving off Gimbo.
Chelsea gives a very abbreviated feel of the game. Posts some suspicions on: Adel, Gimbo, Harvey.
Nameless posts his thoughts.

Further convinced Gimbo is scum based on his play (yes)
Doesn't like my statement that if Gimbo is town, we lose. (it was quantified)
Doesn't like forbid's post, says if Gimbo is town, we need to look at them (yes)

Votes for Gimbo
Gimbo replies talking about context and not wanting to be at L-1. Makes the following comments:

• Knight is opportunistic.
  Forbid switched her play in regards to Gimbo.
  Firestarter/Adel/I - What will we do if he flips town?

Forbid replies asking why would should let a liar live? Poshes on her reigning in a newbie member. (Very defensive tone - unnecesary if Gimbo was scum, odd unless she knew he was town).
Adel replies: If Gimbo is town, who is trying to set us up for his lynch (good)
Gimbo says that although Adel and I may be scum, he's more concerned with Knight/Forbid (woo Gimbo - something came of your plan).
Knight replies he may go Firestarter if Gimbo is town (No case though)
Forbid says she's not going to go for me, asks why Gimbo doesn't know he's going to flip town (odd, but)
I reply saying I'm torn between Firestarter / Knight for tomorrow if Gimbo is town. I ask Nameless who we would go after.
Zeek replaces in, comments on Gimbo's play being anti-town (yes). Votes for Gimbo.
Adel asks Chelsea if she's willing to lynch Gimbo again and again.
Zeek gives his rundown of the game:

• Mentions Adel and I talkign about what it would take for a quick lynch day 2 (oddly worded considering what we actually were saying)
  Says that Gimbo is trying to stop scumhunting (which I agree with)
  Mentions Chen not contributing (yes)
  Says that Knight might be setting up back-to-back townlynches (I could see it)
  Says that Adel is pushing the scum will be in favor of mass claim as a scum-WIFOM
  Mentions me agreeing with Adel about how the plan favors scum.
  Mentions the forbidden LAL

Synopsis:

Another day with some odd content. Knight not giving a reason, Forbids defensiveness and Zeek's quasi-push on Adel and I bother me in context.
I'm noticing the signal-to-noise ratio is increasing as well (actual discussion is starting to slide down)

Page 11

Firestarter asks Adel and I what our alternatives are, tells Chelsea and chen to vote, asks knight why he'd be willing to vote for his partner AND why he never answered Adel's question.
Gimbo says that Adel might be bussing Knight.
Nameless responds to Gimbo in regards to Nameless's points against him. Says that, if the hammer dropped he'd look at Knight/Forbid.
Chelsea says she'd vote gimbo, but not as a first choice (hasn't said who would be)
Forbid reponds to Gimbo, saying bussing doesn't make sense (to an extent)
Harvey comes in saying he'd been lynched in every one and been town in every one and was 2/3 for scumvoting (I'm really not sure what I think of this)
Chelsea's next post lays out with 4 pairs on the wagon what the scenarios might be leaving (C Gimbo is innocent and scum are on the bandwagon (this I think is true)
Adel makes the point that Chles could be scum without Gimbo, but Gimbo cant without Chelsea (GOD I WISH I SAW THIS)
Harvey doesn't think we hit both scum pairs day 1. Says he doesn't think Gimbo's play is a gambit (how). Unvotes. Says his vote on Gimbo was random up to this point (WOW).
Harvey then says it was initially random but he left it after the rush of anti-Gimbo sentiment..(WHAT) says that his play seems too risky for the scum to try.
Forbid unvotes to prevent the hammer. Says if the town decides its she's willing to revote. FoS's Zeek for painting people black (whcih I can agree with)
Gimbo posts a case on Forbid

Synopsis:

Things pick up some, thankfully. Ohh lord I wish I had seen what Adel said carefully. I think the Chelsea thing had some merit. Harvey's statements really sit oddly in rereading and, again, Forbid's play is a little erratic - although I do agree to some extent with her read on Zeek's post.

Page 12

I say why in my internal dialogue between Knight / Firestarter I've shifted towards Knight. Showing his voting record (willing to vote for everyone besides one group) his plan and Forbid's odd play including "voting with the town".
Forbid repsonds to previous posts by Gimbo.
Responds very defensively to my post.
I make a statement with some terrible math (but a point).
Forbid responds very positively to my post.
Gimbo and forbid argue, Gimbo asks what the case is, Forbid says its because he claimed scum and a lot of intuition (I dont like this).
Zeek says he just gave a recap (no, there was feelings in it) and says her response is reflective of her play on not how it was described. Zeek then points out some changes in Forbid's recation to Gimbo (good).
Forbid says Zeek is still showing bias (which I can see).
Zeek says his only accusations are on Adel and I, that Forbid's action show why he saw her play as erratic (again, I can see it).
I respond to Zeek's questioning of Adel and I, emphasizing how the plan itself was scummy versus just the fact it'd been done by scum before.
Nameless replies saying the mafia can still bus (true), Harvey's statement earlier was bad (true) and asking how Gimbo's plan was proven to be not pro-town (I haven't addressed this yet). Says he dislikes Forbid's posts 283/284.
Adel asks why people aren't voting for Chelseafan (Good), questions Chenshi and SSF's lurking (valid)

Synopsis:

This page is mostly Forbid and Zeek...and, to me, I'm given more questions about their play than anything else. Again, I'm irritated that no one paid attention to what Adel was saying (myself included since I wasn't active enough).

Page 13

Nameless comments on Adels plan saying it wouldn't work without a massclaim, that scum could be playing really risky and that Adel and I quickly unvoted as if we weren't willing to vote for him. Says its likely, but not certain Gimbo is town (With the flip, I REALLY dont like this).
Adel replies even handed to Namelesses points.
I say, having not reread close enough (sigh), that I want Gimbo today AND if he is not lynched today I will not vote for him tomorrow. I say, as I did, that when I am done I am voting him back, hammer or not.
Chelsea says she'd agree if it wasn't her getting lynched (BAD). Asked why people jumped off the wagon. Votes for Harvey
Harvey explains his sarcasm in his post about his record (good).
Adel says that she thinks Forbid/Knight are less scummy than Harvey.
Zeek asks why that is considering the flow of the game.
Harvey says he removed his vote because Gimbo is too mad to be scum. Mentions us pushing but not voting.
Zeek explains why Gimbo is scum.
Harvey says he kinda agrees. Chelsea agrees.
Gimbo asks what our take is on Forbiddan/Knight
I tell him to read up.
Adel asks for some vote research.
I post, like I said I would, I vote, like I said I would.
Adel hammers, like she said she would.

Mod makes a huge mistake and says Gimbo flipped town.

Synopsis:

Ohh, rereading this day makes me very irritated. I'm still not sure how, out of everyone active, no one made real positive mention of the Chelsea plan. She said she'd be for it if she wasn't the one being lynched - that bothers me. I'm also really, really bothered by the idea put forward that Adel and I would vote for Gimbo when it was said clear as day not only that we would, but WHEN we would, hammer or not.

So, with all that, my take on the game:

First off, the whole Gimbo situation:

After his claim, there was only two real options. Lynch him day 1, or (by not lynching him) tacitly say that he was town and not lynch him day 2. The day 2 lynch of Gimbo would have been the worst town move and, personally, based on Gimbo's play AND how the town played I did not want that to even be an option.

Now, why was it proven to be a bad ploy (the whole scenario):

The massclaim was inevitable but, by him pushing it that early, it eliminated one major area of scum mistakes in this setup by actively forcing them into two group. The scum part, of course, with a game without time before lylo could have been a very clever ploy; as I said, if we didn't lynch him day 1, we couldn't lynch him day 2.
The massclaim WAS inevitable. Doing it out of the gate was unnecessary.

But, to the crux of things:

Gimbo (7) - KNIGHT42, Firestarter, Nameless, ZeekLTK, forbiddanlight, SpyreX, Adel
Forbiddanlight (1) - chenhsi
Adel (1) - Gimbo
chenhsi (1) - somestrangeflea
Chelseafan (1) -
Harvey Pew (1) - Chelseafan
Not voting (1) - , Harvey Pew

Really, there's only a few options there.
1.) Gimbo was powerpushed by scum.
2.) Gimbo has 1 set of the scum on him.
3.) Gimbo has 1 scum on him / rest town (realized that, duh, it couldn't be an all town lynch).

I DO NOT think 3 happened. At all. There is scum on that wagon:
It was obvious by rereading that Adel and I were going to hammer when we did.
Gimbo was about the safest lynch choice for scum to sneak in on.

I DO NOT think 1 happened (but not as sure as 3):
If the town pushed for someone on that lynch-list (which is a decent probability) having all 4 scum there is too risky.
It was pretty obvious that he was going to be lynched (I'm still not sure why the Chelsea avenue wasn't persued at all).

So, that leaves us with 2. This, to me, is the highest probability.
We have:
Adel/SpyreX
Knight/Forbidden
Nameless/Firestarter
Zeek/Harvey(not voting)

Not on the votelist:
Chenshi/Chelsea

Now, I'm not doing anything rash today, with it being Lylo and all but the fact that no one moved towards Chelsea really, really gets me. The biggest reason why, right now, I'm not powervoting and ending this is that as it sits town also didn't see merit in it (at least tacitly).

I need a reread and some help from other people to clear my head. I've spent way too much time with this in the last 24 hours.

[Chelseafan]

I'm a he first off.

You say Adel's plan was a good one , which I admitted. I said I didn't like being lynched, I don't see why that's scummy in a game such as this where a mis lynch may cost the town victory. The fact NO One else seemed to find any merit in the plan is quit baffling if they believed Me/ches were scum with Gimbo, though I'm not saying everyone did, Knight certaintly seemed to think so early on.

Also you didn't cath Adel's plan? Surely you would have read the thread before you put a vote on Gimbo? I mean there was enough references to it, it's not exactly like it was that hard to miss was it? I find it quite hard to believe you missed the plan really.

Adel asks Chelsea if she's willing to lynch Gimbo again and again.

Sorry I can't exactly answer a question if I'm not online. I don't believe I was asked the question "again and again" before I answered. I answered it as quick as I could.

[SpyreX]

You say Adel's plan was a good one , which I admitted. I said I didn't like being lynched, I don't see why that's scummy in a game such as this where a mis lynch may cost the town victory. The fact NO One else seemed to find any merit in the plan is quit baffling if they believed Me/ches were scum with Gimbo, though I'm not saying everyone did, Knight certaintly seemed to think so early on.

It was the way you did it that made me flag. I've got no firm opinions yet. I want more reads before I come to a total decision. But, yes, as town I could actually see getting myself lynched to have a mostly confirmed town on lylo ESEPECIALLY in this setup.

Also you didn't cath Adel's plan? Surely you would have read the thread before you put a vote on Gimbo? I mean there was enough references to it, it's not exactly like it was that hard to miss was it? I find it quite hard to believe you missed the plan really.

I saw what she was saying, but I sure didn't put it together how important it was - I was focused on my reread. Yes, this was a huge mistake on my part.

Sorry about the she.

[Chelseafan]

Well the plan was out there though, I don't think it was that bad as I believe I said.
I find it hard to believe though that no one noticed it apart from me, in fact I'm pretty sure the scum would have noticed it and chosen not to comment it.

Meh I wasn't offended lol, just pointing it out

[SpyreX]

Why did this game just DIE?

[Chelseafan]

..Eh yeah..it was really active day 1..anyone out there?

[forbiddanlight]

Um...I think most of us don't know what to do next. I'm analyzing another game right now, so one of the megaposts I've taken to doing won't be coming today anyway, not for this game. If it's required, I'll do one, but for now, I do kinda agree with the possibility of a Chelsea lynch. I also understand the relative sentiment of forbid/Knight being possible scum. What I want to know, however, is where my lover is! I mean, it's hard enough defending the actions of one person, I SURE as hell can't do two!

[ZeekLTK]

I am leaning towards Chelsea/chenshi/forbidden/Knight

But I'm hesitant because I could also see Adel/SpyreX/Firestarter/Nameless as being a scum pair too... :/

[forbiddanlight]

I am leaning towards Chelsea/chenshi/forbidden/Knight

I'm leaning towards that's bullshit (I'm biased though ). Why?

But I'm hesitant because I could also see Adel/SpyreX/Firestarter/Nameless as being a scum pair too... :/

Continuing on, why?

Please give reasons for these suspicions. I'll follow up my suspcions soon as I can dedicate a good block of time to it (i.e. tomorrow)

[Adel]

I'm so pissed at myself for hammering that I'm having trouble getting back into this game. I really should've insisted on the chealsa l-ynch.

[SpyreX]

That I can understand. If you wasn't ma baby, I'd be worried about you.

In retrospect, it would have been much more profitable overall to have moved to the Chelsea. I honestly dont get how no one mentioned it (yes, I am to blame as well for this but I said I was going to vote on Sunday and, by god, I wasn't going to not do exactly what I said)

[Harvey Pew]

Please give reasons for these suspicions.

I think he is just picking pairs who aren't him and me

[SpyreX]

Dear everyone. PLease come back and play the game.

Love,

Me

[Firestarter]

Im gonna need a reread, and a post of my thoughts will follow....

[forbiddanlight]

Hi, we all haven't died. I'll probably be joining firestarter in the world of rereadness...ugh, these things take forever for me though...I've gotten a distinct dislike for them :S. Well, anyway, feelings post will be up today or tomorrow, whenever I finish slogging through this.