Open 81 - The New C9 - Game Over

[roflcopter]

scum claiming masons wouldn't be so dumb if there weren't a serial killer in this open setup. but there is, so its completely moronic to think that scum would claim masons and leave it up to the whim of the sk whether or not he wants to nk one of them. we're really masons, we won't even be alive til lylo but if we are then the town pretty much just wins because goodness gracious me there are gonna be two confirmed townies alive at lylo.

lynching muerrto would be a great move right now. lest you all forget, he replaced someone who was under quite a bit of scrutiny already, his replacement doesn't wipe the slate clean of vamp's actions.

[Sun Tzu]

Town Muerrto: You're all wrong, period. If they live till LYLO and cause us a loss it's on all of your heads and I'll be sure to say I told you so.

I'm not saying you're scum but your logic sucks.

You can say this about anyone. Let's try it out: we should lynch Muerrto because if he lives until LYLO and causes us to lose it's on all our heads...

I guess we have to lynch everyone in case they are scum. That's what your reasoning leads to.

We can only lynch a certain number of townies before we lose. It makes no difference which day any of them are lynched. There is no benefit to lynching (or vig-killing) one now. We have the option later and it may not be necessary.

Aside from that, the chance claimed masons being scum is a lot less than the chance of an unknown player being scum.

Your thinking is horribly, horribly wrong.

[Muerrto]

No mason would claim in his first post IMO but hey...

roflcopter claimed mason on his ninth post.

He said IM was obv town in his first post. That's his claim.

However, vigging/lynching them now doesn't make any sense. We can do that later, there is the possibility that we get lucky and confirm them by lynch three scummies early. And if we have a cop (or two), he can test them tonight or later. Also, the argument of using the vig kill so that 'we don't have to waste a lynch' is bad, wasting a vig kill is as bad (or worse) as wasting a lynch.

Having a different opinion is scummy if that opinion is clearly harmful to town.

FoS: Muerrto

Did you say a lynch = a vig kill? Cause I'd like to differ please.

lynching muerrto would be a great move right now. lest you all forget, he replaced someone who was under quite a bit of scrutiny already, his replacement doesn't wipe the slate clean of vamp's actions.

Can you list his actions? I thought he was scummy because he HAD NO actions. That doesn't quite apply to me.

I'm not saying you're scum but your logic sucks.

Your thinking is horribly, horribly wrong.

That's your opinion. But at least you realise it's not scummy to have one.

[strife220]

Another suspect is strife220. Trying to ban discussion about strategic issues as a 'matter of opinion' and then attacking Lowell based on the mason plan suggestion.

I made like 4 points that I didn't like against Lowell. His mason request was mentioned because it's, as far as I'm concerned, indisputably anti-town (unlike directing a vig, which is at least arguable). Same thing with Muerrto's 'lets vig a mason.' It's so illogical, that he very well could have made it just so he could say:

Scum Muerrto: Wait, people don't like the idea of testing the mason's? Ok, I'll back down and fit in and listen to the town.

Town Muerrto: You're all wrong, period. If they live till LYLO and cause us a loss it's on all of your heads and I'll be sure to say I told you so.

I think could be a scum-tell or a null-tell to argue something that ridiculous, definitely not a town-tell. Both Lowell's and Muerrto's points. Regardless, it's anti-town.

[Muerrto]

Shrug you guys wanna lynch me, lynch me. But do it for REAL reasons not this mason crap. I still say if the masons live to LYLO it's insanely dangerous.

[roflcopter]

Can you list his actions? I thought he was scummy because he HAD NO actions. That doesn't quite apply to me.

sure thing pal, here goes

argh i dont want to be on rofl's side

unvote

this is scummy

vote:forbidden light

i agree with the others points

this is scummy

I also get the whole deal with Vamp. Seems really opprotunistic given his poting history.

FoS Vamp

.

More later.

lol i keep screwing myself over

this is scummy

I like the Vig directing actually but I'd like it on IM because:

A. He's lurking as bad as Vamp and not contributing anything.

B. I wanna test the masons.

this is so scummy.
it says "my predecessor and this claimed mason are guilty of the same infraction. shoot him!"

One dead mason instead of the Vig possibly accidently hitting a power role randomly is a good trade

this is especially scummy, since instead of accidentally hitting a power role you'd like the vig to purposefully hit a power role

It's a good a use of the Vig as any

except, you know, not shooting a mason

@muerrto: please respond to this point against your theory...

scum claiming masons wouldn't be so dumb if there weren't a serial killer in this open setup.

and this new one against your plan...
announcing in thread which mason you want vigged is a great way to let the scum know which one they won't be wasting a kill on (ie the other one) and convincing the vig to kill a mason is like the biggest gift you could possibly give the scum.

[Muerrto]

Ok so your case is Vamp was a bad player and then the masons thing. Anything else? Your vote is extreme OMGUS because I suggested testing one of you.

[roflcopter]

did you even read my post?

[Iron Man]

Sorry, been really busy lately with other games and RL stuff. All I'd like to say is that I'm not liking some of Muerto's posts. More to come.

[Muerrto]

Yes, I did. I also like your partner jumping in after lurking to say he didn't read much but he doesn't like my posts. He couldn't have possibly read my long post if he's just skimming.

Can you list his actions? I thought he was scummy because he HAD NO actions. That doesn't quite apply to me.

sure thing pal, here goes

argh i dont want to be on rofl's side

unvote

this is scummy

No, this is newbie and horrible play

vote:forbidden light

i agree with the others points

this is scummy

Possibly but not when taken in context of his other posts

I also get the whole deal with Vamp. Seems really opprotunistic given his poting history.

FoS Vamp

.

More later.

lol i keep screwing myself over

this is scummy

Not even close

I like the Vig directing actually but I'd like it on IM because:

A. He's lurking as bad as Vamp and not contributing anything.

B. I wanna test the masons.

this is so scummy.
it says "my predecessor and this claimed mason are guilty of the same infraction. shoot him!"

No, it says, why are you gung ho about lynching a lurker when your partner is doing it too? If town can do it, how does it make it a scum tell when someone else does it? It's the same action whether your PM said town or scum, right? So if it's not a scum tell, how is it scummy?

One dead mason instead of the Vig possibly accidently hitting a power role randomly is a good trade

this is especially scummy, since instead of accidentally hitting a power role you'd like the vig to purposefully hit a power role

Mason's aren't power roles. You're townies who can PM. I'd much rather have a live cop/doctor/vig thanks. You've been spouting all game about how 'untouchable' you are and 'confirmed town' etc. If you are Mason, great, try and join the rest of us and play the game pretending you're NOT a mason. You know why?

Because being a mason DOES NOT make you automatiaclly right. It means you're not LYING, but it does NOT make your suspiscions any more correct than anyone else's. So stop acting like it does.

And as I said in my first post, the rest of the town needs to stop acting like it does too. He's not a mason/cop people. He got to speak with IM before the game even started, he has just as much information as we do. Stop acting like he has a clue what he's doing.

@muerrto: please respond to this point against your theory...

scum claiming masons wouldn't be so dumb if there weren't a serial killer in this open setup.

Gladly, I already did but I will again.

Why? Masons are simply townies who can PM. If I was mafia OR an SK there's no way I'd waste my kill on a mason instead of hunting a power role.

announcing in thread which mason you want vigged is a great way to let the scum know which one they won't be wasting a kill on (ie the other one) and convincing the vig to kill a mason is like the biggest gift you could possibly give the scum.

If you say so. Fine, kill either one of you, or don't whatever. Whether you're mason or not I say again you have no clue what the hell you're doing. Your vote is hopping around like a lunatic, you've pushed for Armlx all game and now suddenly pushing me, you've said all day that Vamp should be vigged but now I should be lynched? When exactly did that change?

*bolding mine of course

[strife220]

I don't know if anybody's listened to rofl yet the whole game. I know I haven't - I've been treating his posts as background noise. Where are you getting this 'people treating him like a cop' from?

[armlx]

There is no reason scum would claim masons here Muerrto, especially right into a potential 2 for 1 counter claim.

[StrangerCoug]

No mason would claim in his first post IMO but hey...

roflcopter claimed mason on his ninth post.

He said IM was obv town in his first post. That's his claim.

If the ridiculously lame (and I really do mean ridiculously lame) term "obvious town" can be called a claim at all, then it's a soft claim. The only difference I know between that and a breadcrumb is that the former implies "hint, hint" and the latter involves planting information to be discovered later.

[Lowell]

unvote, vote blakadder

. I'm ready to jump on board.

I see the swell of pressure building on Muerrto. I don't necessairly disagree. But being the sucker I am for WIFOM, I'm not sold that he'd take such a ridiculous stance (kill masons) and pursue it for so long were he scum.

[armlx]

No mason would claim in his first post IMO but hey...

roflcopter claimed mason on his ninth post.

He said IM was obv town in his first post. That's his claim.

If the ridiculously lame (and I really do mean ridiculously lame) term "obvious town" can be called a claim at all, then it's a soft claim. The only difference I know between that and a breadcrumb is that the former implies "hint, hint" and the latter involves planting information to be discovered later.

SC, the absurdity of that statement in the first post of the game is going to lead to the outing that happened here, so its more or less a claim.

[StrangerCoug]

SC, the absurdity of that statement in the first post of the game is going to lead to the outing that happened here, so its more or less a claim.

*rewrites his personal MafiaScum dictionary to take this into account*

[iamausername]

But being the sucker I am for WIFOM, I'm not sold that he'd take such a ridiculous stance (kill masons) and pursue it for so long were he scum.

This stance is weakened by the fact that Muerrto himself pointed it out before anyone else.

[StrangerCoug]

Going back and rereading since I have free time on my hands:

Can you list his actions? I thought he was scummy because he HAD NO actions. That doesn't quite apply to me.

sure thing pal, here goes

argh i dont want to be on rofl's side

unvote

this is scummy

vote:forbidden light

i agree with the others points

this is scummy

I also get the whole deal with Vamp. Seems really opprotunistic given his poting history.

FoS Vamp

.

More later.

lol i keep screwing myself over

this is scummy

Explain all of the above.

I like the Vig directing actually but I'd like it on IM because:

A. He's lurking as bad as Vamp and not contributing anything.

B. I wanna test the masons.

this is so scummy.
it says "my predecessor and this claimed mason are guilty of the same infraction. shoot him!"

One dead mason instead of the Vig possibly accidently hitting a power role randomly is a good trade

this is especially scummy, since instead of accidentally hitting a power role you'd like the vig to purposefully hit a power role

It's a good a use of the Vig as any

except, you know, not shooting a mason

@muerrto: please respond to this point against your theory...

scum claiming masons wouldn't be so dumb if there weren't a serial killer in this open setup.

and this new one against your plan...
announcing in thread which mason you want vigged is a great way to let the scum know which one they won't be wasting a kill on (ie the other one) and convincing the vig to kill a mason is like the biggest gift you could possibly give the scum.

I understand Muerrto replaced Vamparific, but your case is lopsided toward the replacee as opposed to the original player. This tells me nothing about why you thought Vamp was scummy for those posts before he was replaced. Is Muerrto scummier to you than Vamparific, as illogical as this question sounds?

[Lowell]

But being the sucker I am for WIFOM, I'm not sold that he'd take such a ridiculous stance (kill masons) and pursue it for so long were he scum.

This stance is weakened by the fact that Muerrto himself pointed it out before anyone else.

That is very true. I hadn't thought about that.

[forbiddanlight]

Well, since it appears more people are interested in a BlakAdder lynch than a Tin Vision lynch, I will

unvote, vote BlakAdder

. Really, both of them are fine lynches by my sights.

[iamausername]

Speaking of TinVision, he hasn't posted in a week. Jordan hasn't posted in even longer, also.

Mod, can we get prods on TinVision & Jordan please?

[JordanA24]

Apologies to the mod, I told him I'd post yesterday, and have found myself unexpetedly busy again. I will post an analysis of what's happened hopefully tomorrow if I get time, consider this a post to say I'm still here.

[The Fonz]

Well I can't let all the other claimers have

all

the fun. I am the Mafia Godfather. I will always show up innocent.

Actually, if some people would be willing to vote armlx, that'd be all kinds of great.

I will

vote: armix

. This is standard armix scum play.

The top part is clearly a joke. Period. Wagonning him on it makes no sense.

The actually interesting part of this post, which few people seem to have picked up on, is the second half. Given the amount of energy he's put into calling IAAUN scum so far, why is he unvoting him and going after someone else, with only one line's worth of explanation?

vote: Greasy Spot

I like the idea of taking out the masons first so we don't potentially lynch a Doc or Cop, or worse yet them claim on Day 1 for fear of being lynched.

So you think having a cop claim is worse than him being lynched? Eh? (This isn't scummy, just dumb).

But being the sucker I am for WIFOM, I'm not sold that he'd take such a ridiculous stance (kill masons) and pursue it for so long were he scum.

This stance is weakened by the fact that Muerrto himself pointed it out before anyone else.

And by the fact it's being made by Lowell, who was pushing an equally ridiculous suggestion earlier. Possibly providing himself with cover?

Basically, Muerrto is completely wrong. But so are those who are wagoning him for his game theory views. These are almost never tells (in fact, i'd go so far as to say that those who want to find scum tend to do it more than those who want to survive, since taking a controversial position will get you a lot of heat).

[Greasy Spot]

Well I can't let all the other claimers have

all

the fun. I am the Mafia Godfather. I will always show up innocent.

Actually, if some people would be willing to vote armlx, that'd be all kinds of great.

I will

vote: armix

. This is standard armix scum play.

The top part is clearly a joke. Period. Wagonning him on it makes no sense.

The actually interesting part of this post, which few people seem to have picked up on, is the second half. Given the amount of energy he's put into calling IAAUN scum so far, why is he unvoting him and going after someone else, with only one line's worth of explanation?

vote: Greasy Spot

And this is an even worse reason to vote someone.

[The Fonz]

No, it really isn't. It's very hard to see how you could have dropped your suspicion of IAAUN so easily if it were genuine, and as strong as you seemed to be making out.

Also, you never did answer my question...