Mature Mafia: Game Over

[elvis_knits]

I think talitha said 11 pmGMT

[Axelrod]

I'm just hitting a few points for right now:

Obviously it is not a pointless suggestion if SOMEBODY HAD ALREADY EDITED A POST IN THE GAME. Given what we did (or did not, rather) know at the time, there seemed to be no reason for any protown player to edit any other player's post. Thus, I wanted to establish a precedent that would both maintain the integrity of the game and potentially make it easier to spot scum.

Pro-town players already know not to edit posts, Glork. I would think that's the default townie mindset. The fact someone DID edit a post is completely irrelevant. I (and others I presume) made the early assumption that the person who would edit a post like that would be scum. Period.

But your suggestion appeared to be saying that you were concerned that it might have been a TOWNIE who edited the post, and you felt the need to tell the townies that they shouldn't be doing such a thing. Which was pointless.

Incidently, this is what will make me think Macros/Nonny is really town if you come up scum. Because you would have known as scum that it wasn't one of you guys who edited that post.

I launched into a discussion about how a modless mountainous game would work. I did not want anybody jumping to the conclusion that I was a vanilla townie based on the posted hypothetical. I've seen people jump to those kinds of conclusions before, and I wanted to avoid it if at all possible. What on earth makes you think I would post a disclaimer as scum revealing how we killed?

If you are concerned about being called out for demonstrating knowledge of something you are not supposed to have any knowledge about - which happens from time to time, you know, and scum get caught that way - then you could easily say something like that.

OBVIOUSLY I thought we were playing in a modless game at that point. Anybody with half a brain should have thought that. My Post 66 was an attempt to extrapolate the most likely mechanics of this game, so that we could get them out in the light and move on with the game itself.

So, you have come to this conclusion that "anyone with half a brain" should have already thought by that point (even people not blessed with Mod. duties). Why didn't you just say that? Why did you engage in this "hypothetical" discussion with loud disclaimer preceeding it? If it was so obvious already?

Except you didn't think the idea that the scum would have to PM their nightkill targets directly was obvious at all, right?

Check that. My vote for you may have been on a hunch, but it was still serious.

Okay, what was your "hunch" based on? You never said, and you certainly never went back to it.

Hm. I went after RAJ for pushing a wagon then coming up with reasons for it. I went after DGB for pushing a wagon then coming up with reasons for it.

Well golly gee willikers. It's ALMOST like I'm

trying to find people who are being scummy and calling them out on it.

This is what Pooky was all up in arms against you about.

You

demanded DGB give you reasons for voting 'Cam (5 reasons), then you attacked her for them. It's not at all the same as Raj.

Player X votes Player Y for doing A, because A is a scummy action.
Player Z says "I could see Y doing A as protown."
Player X's reason for voting Player Y immediately diminishes, provided X accept's Z's statement.

How the fuck could you possibly find this "weird"?

(1) Player Z has already said he thinks you are scum. One would think that might make one less deferential to his opinions; (2) Saying "he's terrible" and inferring "he is so bad that he could do something like that and still be town" is hardly the same thing as saying "I think he's protown." Pooky certainly didn't express any such opinions about Macros. As a reason to unvote, it's incredibly weak; (3) since when do you not form your own opinions about such things? Question: have

you

ever played with Macros before?

[Glork]

I feel like he's reversed himself a lot for no reason at all. Like now he says Axel is scum... and I thought all along he's been saying Axel is town.

ONCE on day one I called Axel "probably town." His coming out of the gates and voting me for Pooky's death changed that, and I haven't found him protown since.

Logic: Explain and justify the "Glork is all over the place" stance. Your sheeping of EK's erroneous statement is MAJOR minus points.

Of his counter argument, he just says "true that" to all the points I feel make him the scummiest (policy on DGB, skewed PBPA, the hunch vote on Axel) and counters the ones I could care less about (how he arrived at the game being modless, semantic arguments about "woots").

'kay, let's tackle those.

Re: DGB -- I went after somebody who was clearly behaving in an anti-town manner and then proceeded to MAKE UP ARGUMENTS after voting somebody in order to "justify" their stance. Explain how

MY

behavior is scummy.

Re: The PBPA -- I thought RAJ was scum. I was extrapolating the points that led to me believing he is scum. Obviously that's going to result in an analysis that makes RAJ look scummy. Are you saying that when trying to build or explain a case on somebody, you'll sugar-coat it to seem "fair" or "objective"? I call absolute horse shit.

My hunch vote on Axel was just that -- Hunch. His first posts re: Zu and the edit didn't seem right. It was a serious vote, but there wasn't a hell of a lot grounded in it. I'm floored that you could find this scummy.

His posting is interesting, some makes sense but when he says axel will die tonight or tomorrow that makes me wonder. Is he claiming to be a vig? Or just making threats?

No, I'm vanilla. All I'm saying is that when I go down as protown, you folks had better take a long, hard look at the likes of Axel and Logic (who is now taking potshots at me from a distance but isn't joining the wagon).

Here's another question: You said yesterday saying you thought DGB was scummy. You started this game day saying DGB was a "good place to start."

Then, right up against the deadline, you came back with "I don't think DGB is necessarily scum."

Then, you voted DGB to "save your ass" while still arguing she's not the best choice (which would be me now, yes?)

Why the shift in opinions on DGB? What did she do that struck you as townish? Vote for you, maybe?

DGB was a good place to start. Her "Cam is scum and thus Glork is scum with Cam for defending him" theory blew up in her face. Her D1 play was still abominable. I don't back down from what I said earlier.

I don't think she's necessarily scum. DGB has the annoying habit of looking terrible when she's protown, too. (Read: Lights Out.) That doesn't mean I won't rap on poor play, but obviously, other candidates have surfaced.

Yes. I voted DGB because I was at 3 votes, she was at 2, and the deadline was about a day away. I've already dug my grave by having a life. I should have requested replacement outright, rather than leaving it up to you. Instead, you've managed to finagle a mislynch on a player who has, as I've stated multiple times, been too busy to properly pay attention to this game. Coron got replaced outright. I did not, and I'm just being lynched instead. It's interesting to note, to say the very least.

Nothing has struck me as particularly townish, except her self-vote. (The whole "let's put both of us at three and see where this goes" thing seems more likely to come from town and less likely to come from scum.)

Pro-town players already know not to edit posts, Glork. I would think that's the default townie mindset. The fact someone DID edit a post is completely irrelevant. I (and others I presume) made the early assumption that the person who would edit a post like that would be scum. Period.

But your suggestion appeared to be saying that you were concerned that it might have been a TOWNIE who edited the post, and you felt the need to tell the townies that they shouldn't be doing such a thing. Which was pointless.

Incidently, this is what will make me think Macros/Nonny is really town if you come up scum. Because you would have known as scum that it wasn't one of you guys who edited that post.

You'd be surprised at how little common sense people tend to exhibit around here. Even Macros, the claimed death post editor, EDITED OUT THE RELEVANT ROLE INFORMATION. How can you possibly assert that my caution was for naught? Based on this response, you are implying that Macros is scum. Is this true or false?

If you are concerned about being called out for demonstrating knowledge of something you are not supposed to have any knowledge about - which happens from time to time, you know, and scum get caught that way - then you could easily say something like that.

That's moronic. The smarter play would be "say nothing and let the nightkill victims figure it out as they go along." There is NOTHING to be gained by flaunting "Look, I'm telling you information that you wouldn't know normally, but this disclaimer will tell you not to suspect me for it!!" Seriously. Play that over in your head a few times and tell me how idiotic that sounds.

So, you have come to this conclusion that "anyone with half a brain" should have already thought by that point (even people not blessed with Mod. duties). Why didn't you just say that? Why did you engage in this "hypothetical" discussion with loud disclaimer preceeding it? If it was so obvious already?

The hypothetical dealt with the kill method, saying "if we're in a modless game [which I suspect is the case], this is how I would expect kills to work."

This is what Pooky was all up in arms against you about. You demanded DGB give you reasons for voting 'Cam (5 reasons), then you attacked her for them. It's not at all the same as Raj.

No. I've already explained my stance on this. I would expect a reasonable player to say "I don't have five reasons. I have two." I do not expect players to make up suspicions because somebody else asked them to.

(1) Player Z has already said he thinks you are scum. One would think that might make one less deferential to his opinions; (2) Saying "he's terrible" and inferring "he is so bad that he could do something like that and still be town" is hardly the same thing as saying "I think he's protown." Pooky certainly didn't express any such opinions about Macros. As a reason to unvote, it's incredibly weak; (3) since when do you not form your own opinions about such things? Question: have you ever played with Macros before?

What Z thinks of X is irrelevant here. All that matters is whether X accepts Z's argument. Also, I neither said nor implied "Pooky thinks Macros is protown." Pooky was obviously saying "Macros could have done something this dumb as protown" which makes "Macros did something which would be dumb as protown" a much weaker reason to vote for somebody.

[Glork]

Seriously. Once I'm dead, the vig/SK needs to kill one of Axel/Logic.

[Glork]

Bah. Okay, I have to get back to work, and if the deadline is in ~2 hours, I probably won't get to say anything else.



Seriously, guys. Axel/Logic. And somebody else.



G'luck town. Sorry I didn't just ask to be replaced like 6 weeks ago. <3

[Glork]

Oh, and

Unvote, Vote: Axel

. Mise well.

[Glork]

(Also, I've never played with Macros before this game.)

[logicticus]

After looking through your suspicions over time, you have changed positions on two players besides dgb, however they were the ones that were replaced.

You thought phoebus was protown, but have indicted werebear could be scum

You thought Macros could be scum, but think nonny is 99% protown.

Now I recognize that they are replacements, but you cant totally disregard the previous players posts.

[Talitha]

2 hours until deadline.

Nonny if we are both still alive tomorrow I will try and discuss more with you. At the moment I have no desire to continue a "nuh uh... ya ha... nuh uh.. ya ha"-type argument

Logic, why is it that Glork shouldn't change positions on a player? Clueless townspeople gather more information as the game goes on, correct?.

[nonny]

Logic, why is it that Glork shouldn't change positions on a player? Clueless townspeople gather more information as the game goes on, correct?.

I seconded this question.

[logicticus]

I never said it was a bad or unexpected thing. Here is the conversation progression.

I mentioned he has been all over the place.

He accuses me of just mimicking EKs thoughts.

I provide examples of where he has changed his positions on players.

Thats it.

[Talitha]

That's pretty weak. The context implies that you think changing his position is evidence of Glork being scum.

You're now my best guess at scum.

unvote:nonny
vote: logicticus

Too late, too late... I know.
50 minutes til Deadline (11.09 GMT)

[logicticus]

i implied it was a scummy action, i never said how scummy and its not like i changed my vote to him.

my scum list is still the following:

adel
dgb
nonny

maybe glork is at 4th now, but we will have to see how things shake out

[Talitha]

Glork - 4 (DGB, Adel, Axel, armlx)
DGB - 2 (Logictus, Werebear)
Adel - 1 (EK)
Tally- 1 (nonny)
Axel - 1 (Glork)
Logic - 1 (Tally)

10 alive, 6 to lynch.
4 to lynch at deadline in 50 minutes time.

[Edit - fixed]

[Glork]

Oh I thought the deadline was sixteen minutes ago.

i implied it was a scummy action, i never said how scummy and its not like i changed my vote to him.

All I'm saying is that when I go down as protown, you folks had better take a long, hard look at the likes of Axel and Logic (who is now taking potshots at me from a distance but isn't joining the wagon).

Unvote, Vote: Logicticus

[Talitha]

That's it. Deadline is here.

[nonny]

unvote, vote logic

I don't see anywhere recently that you pointed out him changing positions. This is a wagon I do believe in. You were on my list of poeple who contribute but barely, just squeking by with some posts but no real insight.

[logicticus]

Alright, I will lock the thread when glork posts his role and then unlock it in 48 hours.

[Glork]

Go town. Kill those two scums.

[Adel]

Alright, I will lock the thread when glork posts his role and then unlock it in 48 hours.

it has been more than 48 hours. are you going to unlock the thread?

[logicticus]

you seem to have unlocked it without me.

sorry about that folks, i was busy killing cops in gta

[Axelrod]

So now we wait to see who turns up dead.

And, though it may go without saying I'm saying it anyway, no one ought to vote for anyone yet.

[DrippingGoofball]

Maybe Adel can volunteer the name of who she nightkilled?

[Adel]

DGB -- didn't you get my PM?

(joke!)

you seem to have unlocked it without me.

sorry about that folks, i was busy killing cops in gta

with mod rights we can post in the thread without unlocking it

The thread is still locked.

I suppose it is a little naughty for us to be talking in a locked thread, so I'll shut up now until you unlock the thread (note the little closed padlock symbol down on the lower left of the screen.)

[logicticus]

it was showing unlocked to me last time i posted.

are you guys still seeing it locked?