Open 84 - Fire and Ice Mafia - Game Over!

[roflcopter]

POINT OF ORDER

joubert is so scum it hurts.

forbiddanlight has given a very good summary of the difference between my "x today, y tomorrow" and joubert's. in mine, "y tomorrow" only happens if the "x today" is scum. in joubert's version of things, "y tomorrow" happens when "x today" is

town

, and the fact that joubert made the suggestion at all means its much more like that "x today"

will

in fact be town, or at the very least not on joubert's scumteam.

unvote, vote: joubert

chubbs, in the future, do not just roll over and accept being lynched, no matter what your alignment it is bad for your team. also, there is a very narrow set of criteria for making a no lynch good, otherwise do not ever vote no lynch. current conditions do not fall under those criteria.

---

ChubbsMcLubbs (4): Snix, Alabaska J, Geddingsworth, somestrangeflea
roflcopter (2): forbiddanlight, Joubert
Snix (1): Eldritch Lord
armlx (1): Scigatt
Sun Tzu (1): mik5
Joubert (1): roflcopter
No Lynch (1): ChubbsMcLubbs

Not Voting (3): armlx, orangepenguin, Sun Tzu

[roflcopter]

also there is a very strong possibility that geddingsworth, somestrangeflea, or both are opportunistic scum on the chubbs wagon.

in particular, ssf brings together all the anti-chubbs evidence in a spiel that looks pretty damning, but is easily explained as newbie mistakes, especially the no lynch vote and subsequently going belly up. such behavior from somebody not on ssf's scumteam must have looked too good to pass up.

[Alabaska J]

I think the belly-up move is much more indicative of noobscum than noobtown. I think Joubert is trying to keep his hands clean of chubbs' lynch because they are on separate scumteams and Joubert is assuming chubbs is town.

[roflcopter]

joubert is today's lynch regardless fyi.

[mik5]

Is there a specific deadline for day one?

No, not yet, at least.

[Alabaska J]

Mod, roflcopter isn't voting chubbs anymore (see the post you edited)

I have no idea what you mean!

Also, seeing as I believe chubbs and Joubert are both scum, I have no problem voting either of them. However, I believe the chubbs wagon has more strength at the moment, so my vote stays.

[forbiddanlight]

Mod, you also messed up my vote. I'm voting chubbs

You didn't unvote first.

[Alabaska J]

Everyone but roflcopter (already answered it), chubbs (obvious), Joubert (obvious), and I (already answered it) need to answer this question: If we were to lynch one of chubbs or Joubert today, who would you choose? Please review both cases carefully before answering this question.

[forbiddanlight]

Ok, fine.

unvote, vote Joubert

To be quite honest, I'm fine with lynching either of them. They've both seemed scummy. However...Chubbs is more likely to screw up and lead us to his scum buddies if he lives, whereas I give Joubert more credit than that. So, Joubert lynch if I have to, but I'm fine with the Chubbwagon. (I'll hammah it if I have to and Joubert wagon isn't gaining steam)

[roflcopter]

Everyone but roflcopter (already answered it), chubbs (obvious), Joubert (obvious), and I (already answered it) need to answer this question: If we were to lynch one of chubbs or Joubert today, who would you choose? Please review both cases carefully before answering this question.

WOAH

seriously?

you scum need to stop being so obvious.

alabaska is one of the scum. probably joubert's partner given how hard he's trying to keep things on chubbs, but this false dilemma makes it possible that he's the other scumgroup too.

getting more and more likely that chubbs is just newbtown making some newb mistakes.

[Geddingsworth]

getting more and more likely that chubbs is just newbtown making some newb mistakes.

His posts haven't changed; they still look just as scummy. The way he didn't even say he was a townie bothers me.

If we were to lynch one of chubbs or Joubert today, who would you choose? Please review both cases carefully before answering this question.

Whoa there, partner. We're lynching someone already? And why's it have to be one of them?

[Geddingsworth]

Ok, fine.

unvote, vote Joubert

To be quite honest, I'm fine with lynching either of them. They've both seemed scummy. However...Chubbs is more likely to screw up and lead us to his scum buddies if he lives, whereas I give Joubert more credit than that. So, Joubert lynch if I have to, but I'm fine with the Chubbwagon. (I'll hammah it if I have to and Joubert wagon isn't gaining steam)

This is also full of scummery.

[Snix]

It's page four and to be honest neither of them really warrent death as of yet. I would like chubbs to stop lurking and maybe address some of the points against him.

[roflcopter]

getting more and more likely that chubbs is just newbtown making some newb mistakes.

His posts haven't changed; they still look just as scummy. The way he didn't even say he was a townie bothers me.

If we were to lynch one of chubbs or Joubert today, who would you choose? Please review both cases carefully before answering this question.

Whoa there, partner. We're lynching someone already? And why's it have to be one of them?

hi. its not his posts changing that make him more likely to be town, its the attitude of others in some extremely scummy posts towards him that make him more likely to be town. two separate people (joubert, alabaska) are trying desperately to orchestrate his mislynch in a way that can lead to a second lynch tomorrow of someone not in their scumgroup. joubert is the one doing this the most obviously. and yes, we're lynching somebody already if the town would get off of their asses and do it, because there really should be no question that joubert is scum after his
"lynch x as town today, lynch y tomorrow!" post. that kind of bullshit doesn't come from pro-town players, that comes from people who have a specific agenda of keeping their scumgroup off the chopping block in mind.

It's page four and to be honest neither of them really warrent death as of yet. I would like chubbs to stop lurking and maybe address some of the points against him.

its page four and a scum has been pegged. why does everyone always think that we should hold off on lynching somebody because "not enough has happened." what towns should really be doing is lynching the scum they catch before anyone is allowed to squirm out of the noose. joubert is scum, lets lynch him.

[Eldritch Lord]

Roflcopter, you're the same type as DarlaBlueEyes, we are not going to be getting along in this game. That kind of black/white--facts/fiction certainty is what makes hasty mislynches possible. There is no deadline and the only thing we lose by further deliberation is time, which given the fact that we're all playing an online variant of Mafia--we can safely say we have plenty of.

Unvote

I don't think you're scum quite yet, I just think you're town with a dangerous mentality. If you're right often enough, you could be a powerful pro-Town weapon, but if you're wrong then you're going to lead the scum to win pretty quickly without even meaning to. I appreciate your crusader mentality but tone it down a bit and have some patience. If you continue to pursue your "caught scum" that's fine--but post reasoning and allow others to consider it rather than pushing them to vote consistently--we've noted your motives, we've noted your feelings--players will vote when they are ready.

[orangepenguin]

I have to side with roflcopter at the moment, with that kind of behavior appearing really scummy. They seem intent on getting rid of x-player now, and another z-player later. I'm willing to change my opinion after hearing more, but right now, I feel confident that he is scum. But I do disagree that we have to speed up when there is no deadline. I would like to hear more from Joubert/Alabaska though, and also from Chubbs, since he just seemed to give up.

vote:Joubert

[mik5]

Joubert definitely seems scummy right now because of his vote x today, vote y tomorrow mentality.

However, roflcopter has a similar mentality. He is willing to vote Eldricht if Chubbs is mafia. So far, i have seen little to connect Chubbs to Eldricht and setting up votes on an individual basis would insure more accuracy. For this reason, I am

voting Joubert

, but will not claim that a random person is surely his partner.

My main reason for voting Joubert is his lack of defense. He simply tried to pass on the blame to roflcopter, (who does deserve some), but has not defended himself at all.

[mik5]

Sorry Mod, forgot to

Unvote

,

Vote Joubert

[roflcopter]

we've noted your motives, we've noted your feelings

please tell me this is a JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR reference. that would be awesome.

back on topic: i feel i have provided my reasoning quite strongly in this game, much moreso than i have in past games in fact, as can be attested to by checking out my completed games yourself.

i feel like you are trying really hard to keep me in the pool of potential lynches down the line. i call this technique "poisoning the well," its basically where you sow seeds of doubt about someone (me in this case) early on and then later in the game you remind everyone of what could have been scummy about something that is in fact pro-town (in this case, catching scum) and try to get me lynched for it.

[Geddingsworth]

hi. its not his posts changing that make him more likely to be town, its the attitude of others in some extremely scummy posts towards him that make him more likely to be town. two separate people (joubert, alabaska) are trying desperately to orchestrate his mislynch in a way that can lead to a second lynch tomorrow of someone not in their scumgroup. joubert is the one doing this the most obviously. and yes, we're lynching somebody already if the town would get off of their asses and do it, because there really should be no question that joubert is scum after his "lynch x as town today, lynch y tomorrow!" post. that kind of bullshit doesn't come from pro-town players, that comes from people who have a specific agenda of keeping their scumgroup off the chopping block in mind.

This would be a good argument, but there's two scum groups. It's easy to see a situation where Chubbs is Ice and joubert is Fire.

I'll agree with you that joubert is acting scummy. That just doesn't excuse Chubbs.

[Snix]

its page four and a scum has been pegged. why does everyone always think that we should hold off on lynching somebody because "not enough has happened." what towns should really be doing is lynching the scum they catch before anyone is allowed to squirm out of the noose. joubert is scum, lets lynch him.

Of course setting up mislynches is bad, it is very scummy but lets let him at least defend himself first. I want to hear some sort of defense from him before I vote.

[mik5]

Much like Snix, I would like to hear Joubert defend himself, but the fact that he still hasn't defended himself does not clear him of his scumminess. By no means is my vote permanent, but I have no reason to take it off Joubert until he actually explains himself. While I still dislike Roflcopter this game, at the very least he has given some feasible rationale towards his votes.

However, I still have several criticisms towards Roflcopter. Roflcopter claims that Eldricht is "poisioning the well" by trying to set up future lynches. Yet, I see four people already that you have called scummy (Chubbs, Joubert, Alabaska, and Eldricht). I have come to like your aggressive style of play, but you seem to think that anybody that follows your same style is scum, which is completely ridiculous.

On a completely different note, there are too many lurkers. Sun tzu, armlx, orange penguin all need to post (don't know if I am missing anybody there).

[Alabaska J]

Everyone but roflcopter (already answered it), chubbs (obvious), Joubert (obvious), and I (already answered it) need to answer this question: If we were to lynch one of chubbs or Joubert today, who would you choose? Please review both cases carefully before answering this question.

WOAH

seriously?

you scum need to stop being so obvious.

alabaska is one of the scum. probably joubert's partner given how hard he's trying to keep things on chubbs, but this false dilemma makes it possible that he's the other scumgroup too.

getting more and more likely that chubbs is just newbtown making some newb mistakes.

this made me lol.

Also, I never made a false dilemma at all. I just wanted to see what everyone's opinions of Joubert and chubbs were.

Still think chubbs is newbscum not newbtown but I have no problem lynching Joubert atm.

Joubert please defend yourself. After your defense I will decide whether or not I will vote you instead of chubbs.

Also, it is

really

unlike armlx to lurk this much. I have a feeling he forgot to put this on his watched topics…

[roflcopter]

way to not respond to my point about being joubert's partner, alabaska. instead you just tried to put a little distance between the two of you by talking about how you're possibly willing to lynch him. and yet you still prefer the chubbs lynch.

[roflcopter]

This would be a good argument, but there's two scum groups. It's easy to see a situation where Chubbs is Ice and joubert is Fire.

joubert is not the only person trying to keep the attention on chubbs. you and alabaska are equally guilty of this. far too many people are investing way to much in keeping chubbs at the forefront.