Open 83 - Polygamist Mafia (Game over!) before 628

[Adel]

I'll give you a half answer, and expect you to give a full answer: my attention is directed towards a lurker.

[eldarad]

Vote Count

Gimbo (5) -

Harvey Pew, SpyreX, forbiddanlight, KNIGHT42, Firestarter

Forbiddanlight (1) -

chenhsi

Adel (1) -

Gimbo

chenhsi (1) -

somestrangeflea

KNIGHT42 (1) -

Adel

Not voting (3) -

MafiaSSK, Nameless, Chelseafan,

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Got a possible replacement for MafiaSSK, waiting for them to confirm

[Firestarter]

Was that a question???

Was it even an answer???

Anyway, there are several lurkers left here....

HP, CF, Chenhsi, and MSSK who is to be replaced.

Can Forbidden be accused of active lurking?

Im not telepathic, so a full answer would be nice this time.

[Adel]

Maybe I need to ask that question again...

Who do you think are Gimbo/SSF scumpairing?

Christ, I'm sorry, I missed your post where you actually answered me, sorry for being difficult.

I don't have a handle on that, and I'd rather have a reasonable suspicion of someone before we lynch Gimbo.

Harvey Pew and forbiddanlight have thrown up flags for me, but they are voting for Gimbo. I've actually suspected that forbiddanlight & KNIGHT42 are scum with Gimbo and SSF but they are playing with fire and may abandon the Gimbo wagon... but I have enough reservations that I'm going to wait a few days before givign the Gimbo wagon the final push it needs to go through to lynch.

[KNIGHT42]

lynch gimbo. im not gonna back off and maybe we can learn something

[Chelseafan]

Quick review of each player

Adel -Would prefer to claim day 2 than day 1.
Jumps on Gimbo pretty early, with him claiming scum this isn’t surprising really.
Didn’t like the harder for me to catch scum line, did like her not answering a rather ridiculous hypothetical question from Gimbo.

Firestarter - Was with low connectivity - His long post was a pretty accurate summery on what had happened though, and quite good contribution.

Forbiddanlight - Admits Knight is his lover, doesn’t want to vote the same, rightly so in my opinion.
Makes a comment he was confused at what Gimbo was trying to do, I was too but equally confused by your lover.

Gimbo - Wants claim, claims scum(/face palm). Does lots of crazy stuff in general. Has a meta against Adel, but then didn’t? All over the place, and is now at L-1.

Harvey Pew - Hasn’t posted a lot either. I’m not sure, for some reason I’m leaning scum on this guy. Not a lot why, call it “gut” if you want

KNIGHT42 - Seems new. Has a plan regarding myself and SSF which I don’t get and was based on faulty logic.Seems eager for any lynch and wagon hops quite a bit. Seems just newbie though..

Mafia SSK - Propes mass lover claim. Is being replaced

Nameless - Is for mass claim. Lean town.

SSF - Gimbo claims they’re both scum. EH?
He seems town to me. I think his interactions with Gimbo make it seem like he’s frustrated that Gimbo may be getting him lynched as town rather scum trying to corrct a scummy looking partner.

SpyreX - Has made some good points, seems quite town

Yes this was rushed, very rushed, I’ll try to contribute more tomorrow if possible as I’ll be finished work early I just wanted to give my thoughts on the players.
I’m gonna put my vote on Harvey Pew at the moment, pending a longer and more proper( nice English lol) re-read tomorrow.

Sorry for my lack of contribution.

[forbiddanlight]

Gimbo - Wants claim, claims scum(/face palm). Does lots of crazy stuff in general. Has a meta against Adel, but then didn’t? All over the place, and is now at L-1.

Adel switched her vote to my lover, who should answer the question. Therefore, Gimbo is back at L-2.

[Nameless]

Well, my partner is gone >sob< and I think Nameless and Firestarter need a wake-up slap.

I think you're overstating my inactivity, but I apologise if I haven't been as active as other players. This is first game I've played in with serious activity happening and I'm finding it hard to keep up, let alone comment, on everything.

Thoughts:

- I like how Gimbo is initially okay with being lynched, but after reaching L-1 is suddenly changes his mind, yelling not to hammer him. And by "like" I mean "am now further convinced Gimbo is scum due to".

- I don't like this attitude that if Gimbo's town, the town has lost. We're still 'allowed' one screw up before winning, and even if he's not lynched today, there's no reason we can't attempt to identify the other scum and lynch them just in case he is (insane) town. Choosing D2 lynches in advance is poor play (and quite frankly I suspect the people trying to do so) and if nothing else, pessimistic.

- I don't like forbiddanlight's post 189. It sounds to me like the scum trying to reign in their newbie member, and I don't like the absolute statement "You claimed scum, so you need to be lynched.". If Gimbo is somehow town, I'd be looking fairly hard at these two.

- Firestarter, honey, answer the Adel's goddamn question. (ie. Which one pair do you think is most likely to be scum partners with Gimbo/SSF) Your post 227 is awful.

Also, out of your last 10 games as town, how many have you won?

That is irrelevant to this game, and I can't think of anywhere you could be going with it that would be useful. Not to defend Gimbo here, but I don't think he really needs to answer

that

question.

Therefore, Gimbo is back at L-2.

Vote: Gimbo

Problem solved. (Gimbo's reactions under pressure tipped me over the edge, plus all the previous reasons that Gimbo has still done nothing about to change my mind. Also ... Yeah, we should probably wait a couple of days before lynching to give everybody a chance to give their opinions before the flip, just in case.)

[Adel]

hey, SpyreX, would you mind unvoting? We can hammer together in 48 hours or so.

[Gimbo]

Nameless, context is the king. I said not to hammer me because once the lynch is put through, Day 1 ends. I want to get in as much Day 1 discussion as possible before the day ends. Also, you point to an 'overreaction' from me which confuses me. So are you saying that because a player wants the day to last longer, he/she must then be scum? Because I clearly pointed out that I only wanted a longer day and time for the lurkers to chip in.

L-1 is not a good place to be for both the player at L-1 and town in general. In this case, any erratic player can come in, quickly hammer and therefore end all discussions. Now what this does is create a WIFOM situation on Day 2 when the player who hammered gets heat from town for the hammer.

I did mention this awhile back, but one of the reasons I decided to claim scum is that I know in this setup, scum-hunting is basically 1 stone, 4 birds. Looking over the player's list, I don't see many experienced players, so I thought that among the 4 scums, there's bound to be 1 or 2 who'll jump at this (the fact that I claimed scum). Now I know (I really do) that this sounds terribly WIFOM and like I'm just trying to save my own skin, but you know what, take it with a grain of salt then, its up to you to form your own opinion.

Unfortunately, what I expected did not happen because I immediately get ridiculed for the other part of what I did which I thought is completely okay-the claim. I had thought that more discussion would be devoted to my scum-claim than to me starting the mass-claim, but I was wrong and we went terribly astray.

Knight: despite being a newbie, I really think his erratic wagon-jumping is a bit opportunistic. To add onto this, I'm still bothered by how initially forbid was interested in seeing how my claim will work out but later jumps on me when the tides turn and is now pushing for my lynch.

Forbid: what caused you to stop wanting to see how my claim will work out and what exactly persuaded you to think that I am scum besides LAL (which is really a bad reason in this case because lying to achieve a protown goal =/= anti-town)?

Firestarter: reading through your in-depth analysis I got the feeling that you were more siding with me in a way only to see that you voted for me. Let me ask you, who will you be suspicious of in general tomorrow if I flip town?

Adel/SpyreX: what will you guys do tomorrow if I flip town?

[forbiddanlight]

- I don't like forbiddanlight's post 189. It sounds to me like the scum trying to reign in their newbie member, and I don't like the absolute statement "You claimed scum, so you need to be lynched.". If Gimbo is somehow town, I'd be looking fairly hard at these two.

Ok, so we should let either a liar, or someone who admits to being scum live? I think this is basically a "lynch" situation, especially given the pressure? Reigning in a newbie member? Sure, think that. And when you lynch either him or me and cause the town to lose, get back to me on that. It's entirely possible that...yanno that keeping lover pairs together on an agreed on lynch might make the odd one out worth scrutiny on the off chance Gimbo isn't scum. At least, I think that was the idea.

[Adel]

Adel/SpyreX: what will you guys do tomorrow if I flip town?

I think a better question, if you are town, is who is trying to set us up to responsibility for your lynch?

[Adel]

@Chelseafan: are you willing to lynch Gimbo?

[Gimbo]

Knight,

vote Gimbo

. This reminds me far too much of another game I played elsewhere. They didn't claim scum, but they did try to use a similar WIFOM argument and coasted to the end on it, resulting in a scum win.

I'd rather lynch Gimbo now

. And as they say, LAL. If he's town, he's lying, if he's scum, we need to lynch him anyway.

forbid: I really don't like this post. Are you saying that IF I do make it to D2, then you will also be targeting me but you rather see me dead today? Because the only reason you gave for your vote is LAL, which I've already explained is pretty useless.

Adel: Keeping in mind that its darn well possible you and SpyreX are scum, I think Knight/forbid is really bugging me in terms of their play. Since Knight has previously voted for SpyreX, if I do flip town, I think this pair will be gunning for you and SpyreX.

I want to hear more from Chelseafan/chenhsi and the HarverPew lover pair.

[KNIGHT42]

Actually I may go for Firestarter if you flip town

[forbiddanlight]

forbid: I really don't like this post. Are you saying that IF I do make it to D2, then you will also be targeting me but you rather see me dead today? Because the only reason you gave for your vote is LAL, which I've already explained is pretty useless.

The thing is, I don't want to see you make it to D2, because by then, everything will be fucked up and the WIFOM of your claim will kill us. The only proper course of action you left us for today is to lynch you. You also did backpedal on the I'm fine dying thing when you hit L-1, as nameless pointed out. I'm honestly not sure WHAT I'll do if you make it to D2. I don't know the answers if that occurs. Hell, I don't even know what I'll do D2 on the offchance you are town and get lynched today. But for now, I feel the clearest action is to lynch you based on your claim, and relatively erratic behavior thus far.

Now, as for "gunning for SpyreX", I don't support that, and unless SpyreX does something stupid, I probably WON'T support that.

Oh, by the way:

if I do flip town

What, you don't know? You clearly read your role PM since you knew flea was your lover, so what's that supposed to mean? More WIFOM?

[Gimbo]

^ of course I know, but if I tell you right now "I AM TOWN, I AM TOWN, I AM TOWN!", would you believe me?? ....Exactly

[forbiddanlight]

^ of course I know, but if I tell you right now "I AM TOWN, I AM TOWN, I AM TOWN!", would you believe me?? ....Exactly

This sounds very familiar. Damn you Gimbo.

However, there is the fact that saying if you are town is as WIFOMABLE as just "Admitting" you are town...though you already claimed scum...argh, you hurt my brain!

[SpyreX]

I will follow my lovers lead for the moment.

Unvote

Adel/SpyreX: what will you guys do tomorrow if I flip town?

It should be obvious. Look and build a case based on it. Right now I'm torn between Firestarter and Knight. I'll, of course, get into more detail as necessary.

- I don't like this attitude that if Gimbo's town, the town has lost. We're still 'allowed' one screw up before winning, and even if he's not lynched today, there's no reason we can't attempt to identify the other scum and lynch them just in case he is (insane) town. Choosing D2 lynches in advance is poor play (and quite frankly I suspect the people trying to do so) and if nothing else, pessimistic.

Nameless, if RIGHT NOW, the hammer went through and Gimbo flipped town, who would you go after?

[ZeekLTK]

Hi. I replaced MafiaSSK.

I read the last few pages before I agreed to replace in and saw this:

Kill Adel or SpyreX today, if they flip town, I give you all permission to lynch me tomorrow, how's that?

That's how sure I am. If some crazy shtick happens and we are BOTH town (unlikely), then I'll go away losing this game but learning a valuable lesson.

Knight you are finally making sense, thnx.

I see Gimbo is on L-1 and I just replaced in so I don't want to quick hammer him, but I am going to vote for him as soon as I possibly can (either if someone unvotes or if we decide we want to hammer him) because of this quote.

This is such BS and this was used in another game I played (mini 533). The player was anti-town and they were trying to tell us the exact same crap about "lynch so-and-so and if they are town you can lynch me".

In that game it was an anti-town player trying to get us to lynch the (unclaimed) doctor.

Let's look at the logic of "if [Player Name] is town".

-If Gimbo is town: he wants us to lynch a townie and then lynch ANOTHER townie (himself) - how does this help us at all?

-If Gimbo is scum: he wants us to lynch a townie and then claims he will let us lynch him, but this is not going to happen. Most likely he'll try to talk his way out of it the next day and if he does there will be nothing we can do to "recoup" the loss of the townie that we lynched under his "deal" (if we, for some reason, don't lynch him the next day).

Also that's horrible to put the whole game in your hands and say "if I lose, fine, then I learned a lesson" - what about all the other townies in the game? Maybe we don't want to lose so you can "learn a lesson"...

No townie would possibly propose this AND in my experience the only time I've seen someone say this was when they were NOT town.

Now, I haven't read the rest of the game yet. But that is the most blatant anti-town thing I've ever seen and I wanted to call it out, just like I called it out in 533.

[ZeekLTK]

Well, SpyreX unvoted so:

vote Gimbo

[Adel]

@Chelseafan: are you willing to lynch Gimbo?

[Adel]

@chenhsi: are you willing to lynch Gimbo?

[Adel]

I'm looking for a "yes" or an "no", by the way, not an actual vote.

[ZeekLTK]

-Gimbo tried to vote before Day started...

-You guys argue about the massclaim that MafiaSSK (me) brought up, eventually do it (mostly because Gimbo forces you to by doing it first)

-Gimbo claims scum... (wtf??)

-Knight votes for Chelsea (vote #4)... quickly unvotes and votes for flea

-Adel notes that Gimbo had previously voted for flea and wonders if Gimbo had tried to distance before deciding to claim flea as his lover.

-Adel and SpyreX are already thinking/talking about what it will take for a quick lynch on Day 2...

-Gimbo tries to make a case against Knight

-Gimbo says "If we vote for the scummiest player on D1, then that takes away the whole purpose of having lover pairs, which is suppose to make things easier." - basically that we shouldn't scum hunt (I tried something like this one in an ongoing game where I was scum and got lynched...)

-chenhsi makes a non-contributing post to just kinda act like "hey I'm here but not doing anything"...

-Nameless attacks most of Gimbo's posts but doesn't vote for him because he "wants to be careful about voting"

-Adel suggests Gimbo/Nameless are scum' Nameless responds by pointing out that Adel's vote on Gimbo is odd considering what he quotes and all the other terrible things Gimbo has said/done...

-Knight says he thinks the scum were quick to claim (Gimbo/flea, Chelsea/chenhshi) to try to get everyone else to claim

-Adel accuses Nameless of defending Gimbo by "attacking his attackers"

-Knight continues to say he thinks Gimbo/flea/chelsea/chen are scum... Gimbo has 4 votes but Knight votes for Chelsea instead

-chenhsi calls out Knight for his vote and tries to get him to revote Gimbo ("if you think we're all scum why don't you vote for Gimbo")

-Knight explains that he thinks if everyone started voting for Chelsea then flea would either have to remove it or leave it there ("like an idiot") if he really was scum with Chelsea

-forbidden claims to be Knight's lover

-SpyreX summarizes Knight's "plan" as being able to claim flea is scum no matter what - which means if Chelsea and flea are both town he would have been setting up 2 straight mislynches to win...

-chenshi guesses that Harvy's lover is Flame; flea votes chenshi for "fishing"

-forbidden says "un FoS nameless" (was that necessary??)

-Knight votes SpyreX for his reaction to the mass claim - also Adel keeps saying that "scum will be the people who are in favor of mass claiming" - he says this over and over again. Maybe the scum noticed this from last game and decided that since some townie would eventually propose a mass claim that they would be vehemently opposed to it and keep citing about how a scum in the last game was the person who proposed it - to get everyone here against the townie who did propose it first, and then when they are wrong they can just say "oh, well I was just basing it on the last game..."

-SpyreX then says "I like how in all of this hulaballoo my statements about this plan being a good scum setup haven't been commented on, at all." - echoing what Adel has been saying about trying to make everyone think the mass claim will automatically come from scum.

-Adel questions flea about "fishing" and basically says "see, Gimbo is doing it too"; flea says that Gimbo is not being subtle like chenshi so therefore it's not "fishing".

-forbidden votes for Gimbo for the WIFOM (several pages/discussions AFTER Gimbo had claimed scum...), tells us to "LAL"...

-Gimbo points out that earlier forbidden didn't attack him, but now that people are voting Gimbo forbidden jumps in

-Gimbo makes his whole "lynch them and then you can lynch me post"
---Chelsea says what I said: "maybe we don't want to lose so you can learn a lesson"

-For some reason forbidden seems to think Gimbo's plan (from his "I'm scum post" is actually a good plan) and says that since Knight (forbidden's lover) is voting differently then by lynching Gimbo he would be the odd man out, thus he unvotes for Gimbo...

-Then forbidden and Knight both agree to vote Gimbo and both do so...

-Firestarter finally makes a post other than "I'm going to be gone" and gives a long recap of the game with his thoughts that concludes in him putting Gimbo on L-1

-Gimbo posts basically a "I concede, go town" (as if he is already resigned to being lynched and to make us think he is town) and then 5 minutes later says "actually don't hammer"... oh really?

-Adel asks Firestarter "who is scum with Gimbo/SSF then" and Firestarter basically lists every other group except his or Adel's.

-Fire asks Adel for who he thinks and Adel doesn't give a definite answer... basically also answers "everyone else" other than Adel or Fire's groups (but doesn't list chen/Chelsea like Fire did)

-Chelsea fan does a "review of each player" but doesn't provide much "depth" for the reviews... says he is going to vote for Harvey but doesn't have a reason for doing so. This is a red flag for me since I know Harvey is town.

-Nameless provides his summary with a vote of Gimbo and suspicion of forbidden

-Forbidden explains why he really wants to lynch Gimbo now - because he either "lied" or is a claimed scum (basically backs up his earlier push to "LAL")

-SpyreX unvotes to take Gimbo off L-1 simply to "follow his lover" (Adel) although he doesn't vote for Knight like Adel did, he just unvotes. Says he wants to look into Knight or Firestarter.

-I come in!