Open 78: Friends & Enemies (Over) - before 608

[Rishi]

Bah!

Go Wolf!

Votecount - Day 2, Current as of post #475

Tekkactus - 1 (roflcopter)
Surye - 1 (muffinhead)

Not Voting - 7 (Surye, icemanE, farside22, killa_seven, Tekkactus, Grimmy, Dattebayo)


5 to lynch, Deadline: Aug 13th.

[Grimmy]

I also have to go back and read everything again, especially the stuff with Rishi in it.

Grimmy
needs to make some charts of some sort.

[muffinhead]

I also have to go back and read everything again, especially the stuff with Rishi in it.

Grimmy
needs to make some charts of some sort.

Why a chart?

Just tell us who you think is scum and who is town with reasoning.

[icemanE]

OK, after a reread my suspicions are pretty similar to yesterday's.

Tek, K7, and muffin are highest on my list.

Tek, for the possible distancing connection rofl mentions, and for yesterday's events, seems like a possibility for Rishi's partner.

vote: Tek

However, a couple questions:

1. Rofl, I'm still curious why you suddenly decided farside is town - that's a 100% turnaround from yesterday. For no reason that I can see. Talk about distancing...

2. @ the town: Do you think it's a better idea to try to hunt down Rishi's partner today to get rid of one scumteam, or to try to find the other - the reason I ask is because, like we saw last night, there's the possibility for a crosskill with both teams alive. Personally I think we should just kill whoever seems scummiest regardless of what we think their faction is, but I'm curious what you all think.

[Dattebayo]

I'm still reading up.

[farside22]

I'm going to do a read thru. I disagree with IcemanE about Rishi. Even though Rishi wasn't all that active I still didn't think anything scummy about him.

[icemanE]

I disagree with IcemanE about Rishi. Even though Rishi wasn't all that active I still didn't think anything scummy about him.

???

[PokerFace]

Damnit! I'm was currently in 4 games and I got killed in two of them yesterday! Those are first times I've been night killed in the year I've been on the site.

Thanks for the awesome flavor with my death Qman.

Bah, go town!

[farside22]

I'm talking about what you said here. I just didn't feel the same way.

Pokerface, Mason has been eaten! (Kibbles and bits even!)

This seemed like an obvious choice. Poker was way protown - I was actually a little suspicious of him, but it makes sense now.

Rishi, Werewolf has been shot! (With silver bullets no less!)

This doesn't seem like such an obvious choice. I'm gonna look back at some day one interactions real quick.

[Dattebayo]

OK, I’m not all the way through but here are some of my thoughts so far:

dcorbe wagon is being ridden by scum, methinks

unvote, vote: farside

I'm gonna have to

FoS: Rishi

as well.

However, I agree with what rofl has said thus far regarding dcorbe (who, when he's trying to be very sincere, uses his real name in his posts, apparently ^^^), especially this:

dcorbe wagon is being ridden by scum, methinks

I have to go right now, so I'll continue to post my thoughts later.
As such,

unvote, vote: farside

.

Out of the 4 people on the Dcorbe bandwagon, why did you guys choose to vote Farside? Frankly, I found Rishi the most suspicious.

giving so thoughts on Mr. Blond so far I'm in a couple of current games with him. I will just say that he seems like this in all the games. I would say he is not a great scum hunter by any stretch of the imagination.
dcorbe trying to derail the conversation and buddying up in game is noted. Surye and icemanE oh and celebloki going along with it also noted. So many people to choose from. One among them could be scum.
I feel good about roflcopter so far. He was right to point out my comment and question me further about it. I'm feeling good about my vote ATM, however.

fos surye, icemanE and celebloki

Votecount as of post 100

farside22 - 3 (Roflcopter, IcemanE, Mr. Blonde)
Rishi - 1 (Tekkactus)
dcorbe - 1 (farside22)
Grimmy - 1 (Celebloki)
Mr. Blonde - 1 (Korts)
Celebolki - 1 (Pokerface)

Not Voting - 4 (Grimmy, dcorbe, Surye, Rishi)

7 to lynch

It’s hypocritical of you to accuse Dcorbe of buddying up when you buddy up with Roflcopter in the same post.
FoS: Farside

If I could put my finger on it. dcorbe converstations and comments just arent' sitting right with me. He brings up the Sd thing and now is getting pissy with others mentioning it. You know that when someone is too nice thing. (i call it a politian smile in RL) well that's what I feel reading him is someone who will smile while talking to you then stab you in the back the moment you turn around.

I don’t recall Dcorbe having angrily worded posts regarding the side talking. He FoSed Korts for pushing it as a non-issue but there was nothing pissy about that.
FoS: Farside again.

Well at L-1 all I have is my claim as town. At least lynching me no power roles are revealed, which gives the scum nothing but guessing for the night.
I don't think I'm reaching. Please look at those who were on my wagon. I don't think my vote against dcorbe is wrong. I say look at him tomorrow.

Hmm... I initially glanced over this post, but look back at it I'm actually sort of inclined to believe it. Though scum often say something like "I'm just a townie so at least we aren't losing anyone important", the "look at the people on my wagon, especially dcorbe" part of the message sort of hits home. That last piece of the message would hold no water if farside turned up scum, and farside seems to sort of concede instead of getting overly defensive and fighting back. Her comments about the offtopic bar discussion and wide-reaching suspicions are still suspect, but, at least for the time being, I'm going to believe the claim.

unvote

I agree with this (somewhat). The “look at the people on my wagon, especially Dcorbe” is only beneficial for a town player since if Farside is scum that comment would be overlooked. However, there is one use it could have as scum; to WIFOM the town into believing her claim. Therefore, I am not going to make any assumptions based on her claim alone.

do you have any problem with me doing a PBPA on you, rofl? Because if you do, just say so and I'll skip to voting you.

no doing a pbpa is fine i am just interested in what in particular made you jump immediately to me from farside.

Your reaction to the claim. Of course, it was the obvious claim, and the safe claim for scum of either faction... Damn! Okay, I see where you're coming from now. Anyway, now that I have it scheduled, I'm doing the PBPA. I don't like your reaction to the proposition.

This post was odd. Korts realizes that he had no good reason to decide to do a PBPA in the first place but decides to do it because it was scheduled. This makes me suspect ulterior motives. It doesn’t seem like he’s building the PBPA for the purpose of realistic scum hunting but rather to look as if he’s scum hunting.
Bear with me here, but I’m going to try to point out some particular wording that he uses that helped come to the above mentioned conclusion. The second and third sentences seem to be ordered in an unusual way. He puts the sentence about a new justification for doing the PBPA after the one where he says that it’s already been scheduled. It would seem that players generally order things in the way that seems most likely or in order of importance. The fact that he placed the scheduling point before the other justification seems to indicate that he finds it more important to just do the PBPA than he does have good reasoning behind doing it.

I've reconsidered regarding farside's claim. But the choice was because you were the first to pounce on farside's claim. Now I realize that this was a bad reason, but your reaction to my proposition telling enough for me to do that PBPA.

A few posts later Korts tries to take reconciliatory steps. Here he drops the “it was already scheduled” argument probably because it was self-incriminating.

I don't like how defensive dcorbe gets at simple comments such as below.

The vote on dcorbe is not because he doesn't have an avatar (though that's not helping). It's his general attitude. He's really defensive and lashing out at people. Pretty much every post he's made has been pissy. This doesn't necessarily mean he's scum - more likely he's just a jerk. But, he seems a good person to pressure, because I think his reaction will be interesting.

My attitude? My posting history? Are you serious?

We're 4 pages into day 1 and I've barely posted at this point. The only post I've made so far that should be interpreted as pissy is my STFU of Suspicion on Grimmy, but it didn't seem to bother him as much as it bothers you and I even tried to excuse myself a few posts later (which you're either ignoring or haven't read yet).

I made a comment about his off topic conversation and he once again goes on the defensive rather quickly. There were votes against him, mine was in good fun, but I just felt with his response to a BW vote that usually goes no were day 1 (those who played larger games may have seen BW day one for crap and giggles) is used to weed out and look for scum sometimes. Rishi had his reason's and I note he seems to get pissy with his answer back.

You; sir, are pushing a wagon out of pure opportunism. I can at least understand all the random votes and the OMGUSing going on here, but you look like you're attempting to pick the ball up and build a case out of thin air.

You're still reaching. At one point in time you liked this. You went as far as to say I had a good point and now you're going back on your word. Which is it? Either I'm contributing usefully or I'm not. It can't be one or the other when it suits your whims.

QFT. FoS: Farside

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 63#1098563 Roflcopter has already pointed out how this could be distancing.

Damn, do I really only have one post so far this game? That wasn't intentional.

My original vote on Rishi was random, but I'm switching it over to nonrandom now that I've been reading a bit. He continually appears to be sowing misdirection; first towards dcorb's lack of avatar and then again for the SD bar meetup conversation.

These two posts are polar opposites in terms of reasoning. If the vote in the first post was for the reasons in the second, why not put them in the original?

Well, your second post was better than your first, but you need to start contributing. This game is pretty soft on lurkers so far, but this will be a problem for you as the game continues.

I removed the irrelevant stuff from this post. What I wanted to bring attention to is the bottom paragraph. It looks like coaching a scum buddy to me.

[Grimmy]

-Charts are pretty
-we should focus on finding scum in general, as we still have 3 out there. No matter their alignment, they are still our target.
-mt re-read will likel yhave to wait a day or three, but ill try to comment on current events as the days go by.

grimmy
likes pretty charts.

[Dattebayo]

I forgot to:

FoS: Tekkacactus

[Mr. Blonde]

"Auch"

[farside22]

I looked briefly just at Rishi's interaction and such. I think out those who may have targeted him would be Survy who Rishi kept attacking or Tekkactus. Who I dismiss as Rishi's partner is Kort, dcorbe, grimmy, or rolfcopter. This is based on who Rishi voted for attacked and talked about.

[roflcopter]

Out of the 4 people on the Dcorbe bandwagon, why did you guys choose to vote Farside? Frankly, I found Rishi the most suspicious.

hindsight being 20/20 and all, of course i agree with you now. i'm not sure what it was about the posts that made me focus on farside instead of rishi at the time, but her reactions to the wagon that developed kept my focus on her from that point on.

pretty sure she's town now though. the reason is not so much relevant.

[Tekkactus]

So wait, time out.

Rofl says "Oh ok I change my mind farside is obv town now and Tekk is obv scum". Why? Because my second post of the game I point out that Rishi did something off. DIVERGENT THEORIES ARE SCUM THEORIES GAIZ.

This train of logic is grasping and barely sensible, yet it's already garnered me 2 votes and 2 FoSes.

What are these "yesterday's actions" that Muffin and IcemanE bring up, again? That I was distancing myself from farside? Apparently I have two scum buddies now, that's brilliant.

On the subject of distancing, what made rofl's mind change from "farside is def scum" to "farside is prolly town"?

the reason is not so much relevant.

*cough* It kinda is.

Regardless, as IcemanE said, it's in town's best interest to be looking for a Goon today, because crosskills help town.

[farside22]

So wait, time out.

Rofl says "Oh ok I change my mind farside is obv town now and Tekk is obv scum". Why? Because my second post of the game I point out that Rishi did something off. DIVERGENT THEORIES ARE SCUM THEORIES GAIZ.

This train of logic is grasping and barely sensible, yet it's already garnered me 2 votes and 2 FoSes.

What are these "yesterday's actions" that Muffin and IcemanE bring up, again? That I was distancing myself from farside? Apparently I have two scum buddies now, that's brilliant.

On the subject of distancing, what made rofl's mind change from "farside is def scum" to "farside is prolly town"?

the reason is not so much relevant.

Regardless, as IcemanE said, it's in town's best interest to be looking for a Goon today, because crosskills help town.

Crosskills are nice and all, but they don't always happen. The wolf will look for mafia as much as look for the mason's so I will be happy lynching a wolf or mafia for this day.
speaking of wolf's I think the only person Rishi didn't really mention or buddy up with or say really much about was Iceman.

Vote: Iceman

You wolf's scum buddy?

*cough* It kinda is.

Fos TEK

[roflcopter]

no, pretty sure this

Regardless, as IcemanE said, it's in town's best interest to be looking for a Goon today, because crosskills help town.

cements it for me that tek is the other wolf. selective scumhunting much?

[Dattebayo]

pretty sure she's town now though. the reason is not so much relevant.

Unless you have a good reason not to tell us, I suggest you should.

[quote"Tekkactus"]Regardless, as IcemanE said, it's in town's best interest to be looking for a Goon today, because crosskills help town.[/quote]
IcemanE didn't say that. Here's what he really said:

2. @ the town: Do you think it's a better idea to try to hunt down Rishi's partner today to get rid of one scumteam, or to try to find the other - the reason I ask is because, like we saw last night, there's the possibility for a crosskill with both teams alive.

Personally I think we should just kill whoever seems scummiest regardless of what we think their faction is

, but I'm curious what you all think.

In fact, he even voted you:

Tek, for the possible distancing connection rofl mentions, and for yesterday's events, seems like a possibility for Rishi's partner.

vote: Tek

It seems like Tekkactus is trying to deflect the lynch away from Rishi's scum buddy (who is probably himself).
The fact that he tried using Iceman's previous posts to support this proposal (wrongly) is also scummy. Here's why:
I think Tekkactus was trying to put IcemanE in the picture so just in case Tek was called out on the statement IcemanE would be there to deflect on.

Rofl says "Oh ok I change my mind farside is obv town now and Tekk is obv scum". Why? Because my second post of the game I point out that Rishi did something off. DIVERGENT THEORIES ARE SCUM THEORIES GAIZ.

This train of logic is grasping and barely sensible, yet it's already garnered me 2 votes and 2 FoSes.

What are these "yesterday's actions" that Muffin and IcemanE bring up, again?

That I was distancing myself from farside? Apparently I have two scum buddies now, that's brilliant.

This reaction reeks of scum. It's OK to be indignant but stooping down to this negative level does not give me a town vibe.
Caps: He's calling Rofl's theory a scum theory(as in calling the theory made by scum). OMGUSy.
Bolded: I don't recall them actually saying that. Putting words into their mouths to discredit them? I think so.

More thoughts to come later; I just wanted to comment on the recent events.

[killa seven]

ice man why wam i at the top of your list?

[roflcopter]

Unless you have a good reason not to tell us, I suggest you should.

i have a good reason not to say

dattebayo is right, tek is clearly trying to set iceman up to take his fall for him. not gonna work wolfie.

we should absolutely be trying to lynch the second wolf, less kills a night > praying for crosskills.

[Tekkactus]

Let's try quoting the

whole

paragraph this time.

2. @ the town: Do you think it's a better idea to try to hunt down Rishi's partner today to

get rid of one scumteam, or to try to find the other - the reason I ask is because, like we saw last night, there's the possibility for a crosskill with both teams alive

. Personally I think we should just kill whoever seems scummiest regardless of what we think their faction is, but I'm curious what you all think.

Bolded the part that I was actually talking about.

While we're on the subject of putting words in people's mouths:

This reaction reeks of scum. It's OK to be indignant but stooping down to this negative level does not give me a town vibe.
Caps: He's calling Rofl's theory a scum theory(as in calling the theory made by scum). OMGUSy.
Bolded: I don't recall them actually saying that. Putting words into their mouths to discredit them? I think so.

Caps: The Caps Lock bit was sarcastically pointing out the fact that rofl thinks I'm scum solely because I was suspicious of Rishi when everyone else was attacking farside.

Not

what you claimed it was saying.
Bolded: Go read page 11 please. Spreading outright false information? I think so.

I'm not calling out rofl because OH MY GOD, HE SUCKS. I'm calling out rofl because you're taking his ill conceived bandwagon while saying "Please sir, may I have another?" In case you didn't read back (as hinted at by your earlier comment) I was against this behavior even before it was pointed at me.

[icemanE]

speaking of wolf's I think the only person Rishi didn't really mention or buddy up with or say really much about was Iceman.

Vote: Iceman
You wolf's scum buddy?

No. I'm curious why you think a lack of interaction is a sign of a scumteam - in this setup especially I think bussing and distancing are much stronger scumtells in terms of finding teams - the scumteams each have a nightkill so the obvious play for a scumpartner would be to bus in order to set himself apart from his partner and thereby avoid both town suspicions and the NK. I'm still in the process of looking at Rishi yesterday - sorry, haven't had time to do a full readthrough yet - but I'm going to be looking more at those he voted for with poor reasons than those he ignored.

@K7 - I really disliked your playstyle towards the end of day one. The obviously intentional lurking was scummy as hell.

[Grimmy]

I have yet to see a game where k7 does NOT lurk.

So for me, I cannot judge him by lurking alone.

Grimmy
throwing that in for Meta purposes.

[Dattebayo]

Regardless, as IcemanE said, it's in town's best interest to be looking for a Goon today, because crosskills help town.

You make it sound like Iceman was saying it's in the town's best interest to keep the remaining wolf alive, which is *not* what he said.

Let's try quoting the

whole

paragraph this time.

2. @ the town: Do you think it's a better idea to try to hunt down Rishi's partner today to

get rid of one scumteam, or to try to find the other - the reason I ask is because, like we saw last night, there's the possibility for a crosskill with both teams alive

. Personally I think we should just kill whoever seems scummiest regardless of what we think their faction is, but I'm curious what you all think.

Bolded the part that I was actually talking about.

IcemanE advocated for going after whoever was scummiest. The bolded (yours) phrase was inside a question for the town to answer. It did not display his personal thoughts.

Let's try quoting the whole paragraph this time.

2. @ the town: Do you think it's a better idea to try to hunt down Rishi's partner today to get rid of one scumteam, or to try to find the other - the reason I ask is because, like we saw last night, there's the possibility for a crosskill with both teams alive. Personally I think we should just kill whoever seems scummiest regardless of what we think their faction is, but I'm curious what you all think.

I did quote the whole paragraph.

2. @ the town: Do you think it's a better idea to try to hunt down Rishi's partner today to get rid of one scumteam, or to try to find the other - the reason I ask is because, like we saw last night, there's the possibility for a crosskill with both teams alive. Personally I think we should just kill whoever seems scummiest regardless of what we think their faction is, but I'm curious what you all think.

Caps: The Caps Lock bit was sarcastically pointing out the fact that rofl thinks I'm scum solely because I was suspicious of Rishi when everyone else was attacking farside. Not what you claimed it was saying.

Sorry, I misinterpretted what you said.

Bolded: I don't recall them actually saying that. Putting words into their mouths to discredit them? I think so.

Bolded: Go read page 11 please. Spreading outright false information? I think so.

It seems I was wrong, but the point still stands because you were assuming that they were accusing you of the same actions today as they were yesterday. Those "yesterday's actions" could be referring to any of those actions you did yesterday, yet you chose to characterize the point in the way that would make it look like bad reasoning:

What are these "yesterday's actions" that Muffin and IcemanE bring up, again? That I was distancing myself from farside? Apparently I have two scum buddies now, that's brilliant.