Guns & Roses III [Game over]

[Menalque]

Any thought about DDL being bussed?

I'm not there yet

[Menalque]

if you don't think this is likely to be convincing to anyone why did you spend 1683 laying out reasons for why this is as valid a reason to vote someone as voting them off your own back

I mean it is a valid reason. It's also a reason I chose. That doesn't absolve me of responsibility for the vote.

my point is that saying "the real thing to look at is someone's reasoning for why they voted is the important thing and not the outcome" seems off to me

I think that's a great cover for scum to fall back on after a mislynch because while, yeah, I do think your reasoning around sheeping creature makes sense, the point is that scum!you already knows what amrun would flip, which means you could deliberately display a reasoning that makes sense as to why you voted there

[Menalque]

Hmm, I was waiting for you to ask that. Not much.

I don’t love this answer btw datisi

But no further attempts on your part to sort Datisi?

I haven't been around icon, why is this AI for me?

If all 3 scum are on wagon when we know it was being pushed by town (sally) then why was it so hard to get through

This one and the next really give me a feeling that Menal is town trying to sort through the wagons

3 scum on wagon makes no sense from a gamestate pov

Like, not impossible to fake as scum, but still.

VOTE: GL

your reaction was massively over defensive and I don’t really see why town!you would be worried about it

You seem off as well in that you’re choosing to throw quite subtle shade at me instead of trying to work with me

You’re making a really weird semantics point while simultaneously saying that it’s not so much to influence the game as it is for you to look back at later despite that it’s obviously influencing the game by throwing shade at my slot

Your immediate reaction to being voted is also really defensive “how could you possibly be scum reading me” and again trying to throw shade at me which isn’t what I think you do with someone who I’m pretty sure you were townreading before

But mostly you’re trying to direct lynches onto the unproductive slots while trying to keep your distance from it by talking about how “I personally don’t have any good reason not to lynch them” which is super awkward phrasing that I don’t think is likely to come from town who I think would just say “I wanna lynch tex/DW for being lurksacks” rather than feeling such a need to justify it

It would also make sense from a gamestate point of view in that scum have probably been relatively happy with things and letting the game tick over rather than highly contesting it which makes me think the most likely slots that looked like they were lynchable today were all town (DW, tex, maybe ddl)

Realllly dislike the GL case. Dislike to the point where I think this is the game we catch scum!Menal.

why do you dislike it so much? can you be more specific instead of just generally saying "I don't like it"

Menalque your GL case is primarily projecting what you expect a townie ought to think onto him.

Go on

But your interactions sometimes like this give town viiibes

Ur hard to read this game, dude

I mean, yeah, because I haven't been around enough to obvtown

VOTE: ddl okay let’s do this then

Can you try and sort Datisi for me? I know you know her pretty damn well in game, and I'd love for you to give a more 'full' opinion on Datisi slot.

I'm in the process of doing this now. what do you think of datisi atm?

[Menalque]

I've kinda skimmed both MenavGL and S_SvAmrun will probably reread it more in depth later

Has the day finally come where we will get a DDL case?

was this question to me

also did you reread those two interactions in more depth yet?

[Menalque]

I don't like Mena's GL case either. The entire thing is full of misreps of how GL is actually playing here.

okay, what were the misreps

[Datisi]

yes, and no

[Menalque]

I am genuinely getting annoyed at this game
We have less than 3 days
I don't feel like I have any strong SRs
And half my TRs have questionable moments

Aaron is again starting to remind me of myself in 1949
VOTE: Aaron

can I get a readslist dats

what is AFF doing that reminds you of you in 1949

I don't think you're that similar here really, and I think you were p much a universal TR in that game whereas AFF isn't here

[Menalque]

yes, and no

ur so helpful as always

[Datisi]

I've kinda skimmed both MenavGL and S_SvAmrun will probably reread it more in depth later

Has the day finally come where we will get a DDL case?

was this question to me

YES

also did you reread those two interactions in more depth yet?

NO

[Menalque]

GL, you've mentioned High Noon a couple of times wrt reading Amrun. Does my play from that game influence your read in any way?

were you in the hydra btw? I had wondered about that

[Menalque]

I knew which post you were replying to lol

[Menalque]

VOTE: menal
your ddl push is gross and your GL push is gross

okay why are those pushes gross and why do them being gross make me the most likely player to flip scum fypov

[Datisi]

TRs: {GL, Icon, S_S, alimdia}
TRs but what was that push: {Mena, DDL}
PoE: {Aaron, DW, Tex, Amrun}

This is where I am ftr

And I think I called you Town once, which was after the first wagon on you that I felt emerged for BS reasons.

wrt to readslist, I think this still more or less stands
though I'll have to relook S_S

[Menalque]

I'll lynch anyone below the line today.

Amrun
DDL
Icon
Aaron
alimda
GL
____

menal
texcat
ss
datisi

why are datisi and SS in here

[Menalque]

TRs: {GL, Icon, S_S, alimdia}
TRs

but what was that push:

{Mena, DDL}
PoE: {Aaron, DW, Tex, Amrun}

This is where I am ftr

And I think I called you Town once, which was after the first wagon on you that I felt emerged for BS reasons.

wrt to readslist, I think this still more or less stands
though I'll have to relook S_S

this is talking about my ddl push D1, correct?

[Menalque]

and I think regardless of your alignment he would make sense as scum

How does DDL make sense as scum if menal is scum? That would be some pretty hard bussing.

+1

[Menalque]

I'm

not so convinced scum was on that wagon tbh

. It was the amrun wagon that felt more scummy to me, not creature's.

Okay, why?

tex and menal ping me most currently. I don't know what to think about SS yet but he is a possibility. If there's any scum on creature's wagon, I'd lean towards Icon. I don't think DDL is scum fwiw.

Why am I pinging you

Why is tex pinging you

Why don’t you think DDL is scum?

What makes SS a possibility?

dogwatch did you ever answer this cause I don't think u did

[Something_Smart]

I think that's a great cover for scum to fall back on after a mislynch because while, yeah, I do think your reasoning around sheeping creature makes sense, the point is that scum!you already knows what amrun would flip, which means you could deliberately display a reasoning that makes sense as to why you voted there

But mafia is hard and townies mislynch townies all the time. If you go after everyone who pushed a mislynch you're never going to get anywhere. I townread people for inane tunnels all the time because I don't think they'd fake that kind of singlemindedness as scum.

[Datisi]

Posts like these from Aaron:

Spoiler:

TRs: {GL, Icon, S_S, alimdia}
TRs but what was that push: {Mena, DDL}
PoE: {Aaron, DW, Tex, Amrun}

This is where I am ftr

And I think I called you Town once, which was after the first wagon on you that I felt emerged for BS reasons.

Can't really PoE though when no one here is confirmed town. Why not just say you're scumreading them?

Ok first thing I'm not sure what you mean about the PoE, Aaron? Yeah nobody is conftown but those are people that I was to some extent TRing so... ?

I don't really like the use of the phrase because it doesn't really apply to the situation. Like when you use it it sort of implies that you don't have any strong scumreads, but like you've also made it clear you're not TRing anyone in that group. Why not just say you're scumreading them?

Doesn't PoE literally refer to the group of people you're not TRing?

Yeah I suppose, but I think the phrase is more applicable when you can rule out conftown players to find the remaining scum.

hmmmm

Aaron why did it seem Townie to you that Amrun did an Ico meta check?

I just seems like sort of a bizarre thing for scum to do or even bring up. Like you could argue that she's doing it for townpoints, but it didn't read that way to me and I don't think that's something scum!Amrun would do to try and get town points.

remind me a lot of myself in 1949. The discussion about what PoE means reminded me a lot of my shading of your Korina case because it was "spread across multiple pages and hard to read". The reason for giving Amrun Townpoints struck me as so weird and therefore kinda forced

Because I can kinda sorta maybe see what Creature was going at because Aaron doesn't ~feel Town~, but in the game like half the slots don't ~feel Town~ and I'm not sure what to make of it

[Menalque]

tbh this game is a lesson to me on why I should never let myself fall behind

[Datisi]

this is talking about my ddl push D1, correct?

yes, your D1 DDL """push""", and immediate dropping of said push for you being alive even tho 50% of the people voting DDL ended up dead

and also DDL barely mentioning you and having this sorta weird TR on you throughout the game that he handwaves as "townies are wrong"

and now you stopping his lynch again

[Datisi]

GL, you've mentioned High Noon a couple of times wrt reading Amrun. Does my play from that game influence your read in any way?

were you in the hydra btw? I had wondered about that

and yes, I was Logic
I thought it was obvious by my post-game comments to birb (and to anyone who knows what "datisi" means khm)

[Menalque]

Posts like these from Aaron:

Spoiler:

TRs: {GL, Icon, S_S, alimdia}
TRs but what was that push: {Mena, DDL}
PoE: {Aaron, DW, Tex, Amrun}

This is where I am ftr

And I think I called you Town once, which was after the first wagon on you that I felt emerged for BS reasons.

Can't really PoE though when no one here is confirmed town. Why not just say you're scumreading them?

Ok first thing I'm not sure what you mean about the PoE, Aaron? Yeah nobody is conftown but those are people that I was to some extent TRing so... ?

I don't really like the use of the phrase because it doesn't really apply to the situation. Like when you use it it sort of implies that you don't have any strong scumreads, but like you've also made it clear you're not TRing anyone in that group. Why not just say you're scumreading them?

Doesn't PoE literally refer to the group of people you're not TRing?

Yeah I suppose, but I think the phrase is more applicable when you can rule out conftown players to find the remaining scum.

hmmmm

Aaron why did it seem Townie to you that Amrun did an Ico meta check?

I just seems like sort of a bizarre thing for scum to do or even bring up. Like you could argue that she's doing it for townpoints, but it didn't read that way to me and I don't think that's something scum!Amrun would do to try and get town points.

remind me a lot of myself in 1949. The discussion about what PoE means reminded me a lot of my shading of your Korina case because it was "spread across multiple pages and hard to read". The reason for giving Amrun Townpoints struck me as so weird and therefore kinda forced

Because I can kinda sorta maybe see what Creature was going at because Aaron doesn't ~feel Town~, but in the game like half the slots don't ~feel Town~ and I'm not sure what to make of it

regarding 1918 I mean I think a big difference is that arguing about PoE is very different from arguing about presentation

like I don't agree with AFF that poe doesn't work without conf!town (although it is obviously less efficient) but I think that's still really different from "person is scummy because they presented what they were saying in an unclear way" so I don't get that similarity

who are the slots that don't ~*feel town*~?

[Datisi]

Posts like these from Aaron:

Spoiler:

TRs: {GL, Icon, S_S, alimdia}
TRs but what was that push: {Mena, DDL}
PoE: {Aaron, DW, Tex, Amrun}

This is where I am ftr

And I think I called you Town once, which was after the first wagon on you that I felt emerged for BS reasons.

Can't really PoE though when no one here is confirmed town. Why not just say you're scumreading them?

Ok first thing I'm not sure what you mean about the PoE, Aaron? Yeah nobody is conftown but those are people that I was to some extent TRing so... ?

I don't really like the use of the phrase because it doesn't really apply to the situation. Like when you use it it sort of implies that you don't have any strong scumreads, but like you've also made it clear you're not TRing anyone in that group. Why not just say you're scumreading them?

Doesn't PoE literally refer to the group of people you're not TRing?

Yeah I suppose, but I think the phrase is more applicable when you can rule out conftown players to find the remaining scum.

hmmmm

Aaron why did it seem Townie to you that Amrun did an Ico meta check?

I just seems like sort of a bizarre thing for scum to do or even bring up. Like you could argue that she's doing it for townpoints, but it didn't read that way to me and I don't think that's something scum!Amrun would do to try and get town points.

remind me a lot of myself in 1949. The discussion about what PoE means reminded me a lot of my shading of your Korina case because it was "spread across multiple pages and hard to read". The reason for giving Amrun Townpoints struck me as so weird and therefore kinda forced

Because I can kinda sorta maybe see what Creature was going at because Aaron doesn't ~feel Town~, but in the game like half the slots don't ~feel Town~ and I'm not sure what to make of it

regarding 1918 I mean I think a big difference is that arguing about PoE is very different from arguing about presentation

like I don't agree with AFF that poe doesn't work without conf!town (although it is obviously less efficient) but I think that's still really different from "person is scummy because they presented what they were saying in an unclear way" so I don't get that similarity

who are the slots that don't ~*feel town*~?

I think they're similar in a way that they're taking something that the slot was trying to say (case against Korina/readslist) and instead of engaging the substance of it they decide to argue about something that's "connected" to it but ultimately makes absolutely no difference on what the original post was trying to say (the way the case was presented/me saying "PoE")

And, uhh... Aaron, Amrun is still not a TR for me, I've been tuning S_S out for a while now but I need to revisit him, I don't remember the last time Gamma or alimdia did anything, and you and DDL have that weird thing going on

[Menalque]

this is talking about my ddl push D1, correct?

yes, your D1 DDL """push""", and immediate dropping of said push for you being alive even tho 50% of the people voting DDL ended up dead

and also DDL barely mentioning you and having this sorta weird TR on you throughout the game that he handwaves as "townies are wrong"

and now you stopping his lynch again

well yeah exactly, I never really got the chance to push it D1 and when I did people stayed glued onto creature despite the reasons for SRing him being bad

also I don't think I dropped it today, I just said I wanted to reconsider? why is me saying I want to reconsider scum!indicative? esp when I was the strongest advocate for a ddl Lynch and the easiest way to control whether you're getting pushed or not is using the nk as scum to remove people who are likely to be problematic for you and ddl had plenty of reasons to believe I'd be problematic for him today (as in he didn't have good reasons to think I would consider my not being dead in this way)

I haven't got to that point yet but are you not also TRing me? so why is ddl TRing me weird? do you think he should be omgusing regardless of alignment?

also tbh if he is scum at this point then him continuing to TR me makes sense because somehow this "mena is bussing ddl" theory has gained traction

which also doesn't make sense because how are you reconciling my constant anti-bus position with me deciding to bus on D1?

and I'm pausing his lynch because I'd ideally like him to answer my questions without anyone being able to lolhammer, I'm only stopping it if his answers are enough to persuade me he's not scum