Open 81 - The New C9 - Game Over

[Lowell]

vote sun tzu

. Keep 'em guessing.

This is the part where I propose the masons out themselves. Discuss.

[Lowell]

Good, good, more.

@Iron Man- yes, of course it's a rolefish. And no, I don't know if there are masons. If there aren't any, asking them to reveal doesn't risk much, does it?

The logic is basically: with 2 masons out in the open, it helps town winnow the field of potential lynch candidates, and forces scum to make an awkward and annoying choice. Either they can waste NKs on masons (who have no pro-town abilities other than confirming each others' town-ness), or they can try to kill someone else, hoping that (a) they hit a power role, and (b) they can hide the next day despite there being fewer and fewer viable lynch options.

This seems counterintuitive, but in every game I've been in the town has been better served the earlier the masons reveal.

[Lowell]

kudos to you, rofl.

unvote, vote strangercoug

for shedding crocodile tears.

You can't tell me masons outing themselves really hurts the town. ESPECIALLY in a situation where we probably have an SK. Even if scum factions WANTED to kill the masons (which in my experience isn't always the case) they have no way of coordinating it.

This is a good thing. Let it go.

[Lowell]

Nope. I feel pretty good about it, though.

[Lowell]

@Lowell: Is your theory on masons outing themselves D1 new to you? Do you have meta of you saying the same thing in another open game?

I dont' know what game it was, but I was a mason and claimed early on D1 when I (or my mason partner, I forget) came under mild pressure early. Scum ended up killing both of us eventually, but lost their chance to hit anyone of value because of it. Town won fairly easily.

So, yeah, I'm pretty much a fan of D1 mason claims. Were I a mason in this game I would have outed myself in my fist post.

Back to the game. I'm getting very strong town-vibes from korts and forbiddan, though for different reasons. I'd like to hear more about the case against armlx, if there is one, and wonder why the case against strangercoug fell apart so quickly. I'm not ready to abandon hope...

[Lowell]

I'm getting pro-town vibes from both IAU and GS. Which makes this debate all the more annoying.

[Lowell]

I'm not getting pro-town vibes from people I haven't said I'm getting pro-town vibes from.

Don't worry, once I get pro-town vibes from a few more I'll have the scum team all picked out.l

[Lowell]

@jordan's 208-

1) I find forbiddan pro-town because she has bent over backwards to explain herself. Scum players usually find it easier/think it wiser to try to reassert their positions to make it look like they have strong convictions/don't fear death/are awesome. The fact that she's not done this looks good, IN ADDITION to the fact that I can buy what she's saying.

2) To beat a dead horse: uh, you think having only one mason outed would cause scum to try to fakeclaim mason? Really? How does that work?

Scum: (uh oh, what do I do what do I do wait I KNOW!)
"I'm a mason!"
Mason 1: "No, I'm a mason"
Mason 2: "It's true... he is"
Scum: "OH NOES!! A counterclaim, how unexpected! I'm boned!"

3) I do NOT add Jordan to my list of pro-town players

[Lowell]

^^^^ agree very much with this

IAU joins my town list if he wasn't there already. I forget.

[Lowell]

Reading through this game feels like homework of late.

I will do my best to explain all future "town vibes." Not right now.

[Lowell]

I'll

FOS GS

for tunnel vision.

[Lowell]

Okay. Uh, 375.

[Lowell]

Vigs are useless anyway. There, I said it.

[Lowell]

Greasy- let's say, hypothetically, a friend of mine doesn't particularly buy the iamausername case. Who should my friend vote for instead, and why?

[Lowell]

unvote, vote Sun Tzu

. If he's scum he'll come totally unglued. Let's try it.

[Lowell]

It's meta of me, perhaps, but not a gambit. I still don't really get what that is.

I'm not opposed to a strangercoug lynch. I'm just in no hurry.

[Lowell]

Hey, Lowell, could you try explaining your vote on Sun Tzu in a way that makes sense to people in

this

game?

Just trying to start a wagon. I'm saying he'll panic if he's scum, that's all.

[Lowell]

1) I don't get the Korts wagon at all.

2)

unvote, vote strangercoug

. He has done NOTHING to make me feel like he's trying to be useful. Attacking me for bandwaggoning (as the first vote?) is just bizzaire.

3) I'd like to see the vig hit a complete lurker. Big games like this make it a little too easy for people to just wait out the first 2 days or so. Let's put the fear of god in them.

[Lowell]

unvote

. Yay, a vig who kills for spite!!! The MOST useful role!

[Lowell]

I did. Now you know why.

[Lowell]

Actually, after a quick reread:
If we don't lynch Korts, can we lynch Lowell? He's made about a post every page; most every post is just 1 or 2 sentences. He pushed outing the masons with no meta proving that he actually believes it's a good move (subjective point, I know, but I think it's anti town). He's accused like 6 people of being pro-town. He made a vote on Sun Tzu without giving a reason, later stating he was 'just trying to get a wagon going for pressure,' apparently on a completely random player. Finally he's complaining about the vig, essentially discouraging him from using his kills.

Unvote, Vote: Lowell

in hopes that people will join in. It takes about 2 minutes to reread all of his posts, and I think when read in sequence it becomes apparent that he's trying to seem pro-town without actually doing anything useful.

Would still like to see Korts lynched but that wagon seems to be stalled.

This is horrible.

1) "Accusing" people of being town is every bit as useful (in terms of me getting my opinions out there) as is hopping my vote around or peppering the field with FOSs. I tend to find scum through process of elimination.

2) I'm still right about the mason thing, and there is precedent for it. Quit your whining.

3) The vote on Sun Tzu wasn't random. Suffice to say it's a meta thing, and refers to another game. Also, it's a single vote. Who cares?

4) The fact that my posts don't take long to read is GOOD, not bad. If only everyone could express themselves so succinctly.

[Lowell]

This is standard Lowell behavior. Korts is a better lynch.

Now

I see why people get annoyed with my "town vibes" accusations. It's a douchy, backhanded compliment. It's basically "Oh, I own this guy. Because I'm so much more awesome than him and can read him like a book, I can confirm he's town."

Turnabout hurts.

Also, armlx is NOT town.

[Lowell]

Wait, is someone seriously suggesting the masons aren't confirmed???

God that's insane.

[Lowell]

unvote, vote blakadder

. I'm ready to jump on board.

I see the swell of pressure building on Muerrto. I don't necessairly disagree. But being the sucker I am for WIFOM, I'm not sold that he'd take such a ridiculous stance (kill masons) and pursue it for so long were he scum.

[Lowell]

But being the sucker I am for WIFOM, I'm not sold that he'd take such a ridiculous stance (kill masons) and pursue it for so long were he scum.

This stance is weakened by the fact that Muerrto himself pointed it out before anyone else.

That is very true. I hadn't thought about that.

[Lowell]

Jordan, I was doing that in reference to another game. Whatever, it doesn't matter now. I don't particularly have a read on him one way or the other.

I'm curious why people are so opposed to a BlakAddar lynch. What has orangepenguin done to make you think of him as scum.... or think of him at all?

[Lowell]

It's better than "fine." BlakAdder is sitting back and hoping the pressure dies. I can't tell you how many times I've done that.

[Lowell]

Assuming ^^^^ is true,

unvote, vote GS

. I've seen him come unglued as caught scum before.

[Lowell]

nb- if deadline becomes an issue, I'll switch back to BA.

[Lowell]

unvote, vote BlakAddar

I'd like to try some other leads to, but if this is really going to be a game full of replacements at the deadline, let's just get this done.

[Lowell]

I'm getting a renewed town read on muerrto. I'd vote someone else to be vigged tonight.

[Lowell]

I don't see any particular scumtells in muerrto.

That said: I wish you'd not declare your targets, since if they're town it means the scum know they don't have to bother targetting said player. If you keep your intentions under wraps, then the scum might hit the same target as you, wasting a kill.

Agreed.