Minvitational 8 - OVER before 611

[Guardian]

Vote Count 17

curiouskarmadog[5] (BillyTwilight, Adel, vollkan, Oman, Simenon)
Adel[2] (curiouskarmadog, cicero)
Oman[1] (Shanba)
Shanba[1] (Jitsu)
shaft.ed[1] (The Fonz)
The Fonz[1] (shaft.ed)


Not Voting[1] (Erg0)

Deadline:

Approximately 2.5 hours from this post.

[Erg0]

Vote: curiouskarmadog

Not sure whether shaft.ed deliberately left him out of lynch range there.

[shaft.ed]

I'm here

unvote, vote:CKD

[Guardian]

Vote Count 18

curiouskarmadog[7] (BillyTwilight, Adel, vollkan, Oman, Simenon, Erg0, shaft.ed)
Adel[2] (curiouskarmadog, cicero)
Oman[1] (Shanba)
Shanba[1] (Jitsu)
shaft.ed[1] (The Fonz)

~~~

Night 1

curiouskarmadog, townie, was lynched day 1.

Send all night choices to me; they are due by Sunday night. All choices not sent in by then will be made by me, and you won't like it.

[Guardian]

Kison replaces Shanba, who was inactive and missed the final prod.

[Guardian]

Day 2

Adel, townie, was killed silently night 1. Her body looks almost peaceful.

Simenon, townie, was killed loudly and violently night 1. There is not much left of his body.

Day 2 begins now. Its deadline is 3 weeks -- Deadline for Day 2 is approximately July 28 6PM EST.

It will require 5 to lynch day 2. Good luck!

[Erg0]

First off, I apologise for being crap yesterday - my planned last-week rush was killed by my life. I've just switched to a job that's less demanding on my time and energies, and that should give me plenty of room for mafia from here on out.

Picking up the crumbs of my prior suspicions, I think I'm most interested in shaft.ed and Jitsu at this point. I'll start there and work my way out.

[BillyTwilight]

Vig or SK got Adel, obv. Thanks for clearing that up for us, at least.

I'll have a look through to see what reasons there might be for a Sim kill. No suspicions right now, clean slate till I get a read-through.

[vollkan]

How is it obvious that a Vig/SK killed Adel?

[cicero]

So that day one sucked.

Shaft.ed, why did you say you were going to vote Adel and then instead hammer CKD?

[Erg0]

Especially considering that I'm pretty sure the CKD vote wasn't required to lynch him at that point.

[Oman]

Vote Cicero

From yesterday. Nothing has changed.

[Jitsu]

Especially considering that I'm pretty sure the CKD vote wasn't required to lynch him at that point.

The hammer did look suspicious, as was pointed out, but I think your assertion here is incorrect.

When you revoted, the situation was:

curiouskarmadog[6] (BillyTwilight, Adel, vollkan, Oman, Simenon, Erg0)
Adel[2] (curiouskarmadog, cicero)
Oman[1] (Shanba)
Shanba[1] (Jitsu)
shaft.ed[1] (The Fonz)
The Fonz[1] (shaft.ed)

If I read the rules correctly, all 12 players had cast a vote, and CKD had only 6 of them. Thus, if nothing else were done, a No Lynch would have occurred.

[vollkan]

13. At deadline, if a player has a

majority

of the votes being cast (e.g. all votes not on Not Voting) that player will be lynched. Otherwise, no lynch will occur and night will commence.

"Majority" means "more than 50%"

Before Erg0 voted CKD: 5 votes on CKD. 11 votes cast.

NOT MAJORITY

After Erg0, but before shaft.ed: 6 votes on CKD. 12 votes cast.

NOT MAJORITY

After shaft.ed voted CKD: 7 votes on CKD. 12 votes cast.

MAJORITY

Basically, to attain a CKD lynch, shaft.ed could either have unvoted, or voted CKD. So, strictly speaking, his CKD vote was not

required

, but I think you see my point: he had to do something.

Oh, and just to be a bastard: IF shaft.ed's action had been unnecessary, what bearing, if any, would that have for shaft.ed's scumminess?

My answer: None. I think it is a null-tell. At that point in time, there was nothing that shaft.scum could hope to gain by voting CKD, other than to WIFOMishly put his fingers in the pie deliberately.

[Kison]

Shafted's deadline vote doesn't really seem to be anything worth attacking him over. CKD was the only one close enough to a lynch. By the time Shafted voted, the clock was close enough to 0 that it would have been a long stretch to think the votes could have been turned onto someone else.

That being said, I'm about halfway done reading the thread, and I'm leaning towards voting Shafted based upon his CKD & Jitsu votes. Don't like either of them. I'll go into it more once I'm caught up, assuming what I read does not change my perspective. On the flip side, I'm kind of interested in why Oman is voting Cicero when his vote was on Shanba(me!) for a time yesterday. Is that placed due to the early Day One Cicero wagon? I guess we'll see what happens.

All to come on the next episode of Minvitational 8.

[Oman]

Kison, I made a review of thread so far in which I gave my reasoning for cicerovote.

The vote on you was pretty pointless, because Shanba ended up being obviously AFK. The fact that he made terrible posts is easily explained by someone not paying attention to the thread.

Once it became evident that shanba was not here my vote was worthless, if I didn't remove it, it was because I'd neglected it.

[Kison]

Nevermind, I see it. I did a quick look over Guardian's vote counts and didn't see a vote from you on him beyond the initial Day One vote you'd placed on him. I haven't gotten that far, yet. I'll shut up now and finish reading.

[Oman]

It was Shanba who had a vote on me, you probably just got confused.

[The Fonz]

Votes Oman based on something Vollkan said.

What are you talking about this page 1 comment? Yes I'm quite obviously just following vollkan's logical coattails

Logical? Not so much. Coattails? Yup. Obviously being page one, it's not THAT significant: that does not mean entirely unworthy of comment.

Is that an Aussie thing?

No. I was under the impression that the desire to get rid of Oman was universal

Asks Simenon a (rather leading) question, but doesn't follow through on it...

You mean this on page 2, are you serious? Do you not understand random comical banter?

Didn't seem comical to me.

Vote: curiouskarmadog

.

A good OMGUS to get me started in the morning.

This is not a vote for cicero.

Why do you only point out Billy's vote? Do you secretly wish you could vote for Oman?

1) Oman doesn't need any excuse to bandwagon and 2) The bandwagon on Oman was pretty much baseless. Therefore, to accuse Oman of 'trying to shift' the wagon felt to me a bit off- he had no reason to try to shift it there, and it isn't like he's a newb panicking because he has a couple votes on him.

I've explained this to death. I don't know why it's being taken so seriously. It was a half joking comment that was checking for Oman's reaction.

I don't like how everything's supposedly a joke. You were wagonning Oman; the wagon was of a significant size. You said something that I didn't think made much sense.

I know Erg0 can be quiet early game, are Shanba and Billy generally like this?

Floating possibilities, seeing if anyone bites...

Or perhaps getting meta advice from the rest of the town?

But more likely what I said.

The comment towards Oman about the bandwagon was primarily to gauge his reaction to it. If he had reacted overly defensive or incredibly longwinded about it I would have been worried. His reply was pretty much what I expected.

The result he expected apparently told him nothing.

Actually they didn't. The way he responded told me he was either scum paying attention or town.

So, it told you that he was either scum or town? How is that not 'nothing?' I mean, sure, if he'd made a reply that is out of character for Oman, that would have been noteworthy- but then that's true of any response to anything.

Then votes CKD, 'Person C' behind Jitsu.

Yes I made absolutely no points against CKD of my own.[/quote]

You're correct, you didn't. You went, 'I agree with Jitsu, vote CKD.'

I've never once accused Oman of being scummy in this game. And your unvote was overly cautious thus suspicious.

And he left his vote on Oman how long, exactly?

When was Oman in danger of being lynched again? How did it matter?

He was the leading wagon for a long time. Also, it's fairly obvious that if you're leaving your vote on someone you don't think is scum, it's not achieving anything. Which perfectly fits the LIPS-rather-than-actual-scumhunting hypothesis.

Hedges...

If you're calling my quotes out for "hedging" you've got about 6 other people that should be on your "hedges" list.

Mud on your face defence. Other people doing something doesn't make it not scummy in the context of your play.

I don't like how easily he drops his CKD vote.

I pointed out that logically he'd most likely have to be scum with someone else for his action to be scummy. I also wanted to use my vote to pressure Jitsu. It worked.

You believe points had been made against CKD which hadn't been adequately defended. You kept on voting CKD whilst citing your concerns about Jitsu, but your vote was apparently swung by an incautious phrasing.

Oh, and backing off the 'lurker' accusations then falling back on 'well i don't like the early play' is simply delayed OMGUS. You didn't think it worthy of attack at the time, even when your vote was on someone you

I still think you were lurking in plain site when you accused me of it. See 541.

You're still completely wrong.

So to suggest, now, that you find what I did near the start scummy is...well, scummy.

I find the hypocrisy scummy.

I'm not hypocritical at all. And, again, it's less the OMGUS vote than the timing. If you were suspicious of me for making the argument at the time i made it, why didn't you go after me then?

[The Fonz]

Oh crap, that was supposed to be the second half of the post. The first is here:

Oh, and just to be a bastard: IF shaft.ed's action had been unnecessary, what bearing, if any, would that have for shaft.ed's scumminess?

My answer: None. I think it is a null-tell. At that point in time, there was nothing that shaft.scum could hope to gain by voting CKD, other than to WIFOMishly put his fingers in the pie deliberately.

I'd agree with the null-tell argument; town.ed has plenty of reason to avoid a no-lynch, and scum.ed has just as much to lynch a townie.

shaft.ed remains, however, my number one lynch candidate for the reasons articulated yesterday. I don't feel his attempted rebuttal of my long post was particularly good:

(Then that long response)

Cicero is probably number two, though i strongly prefer the shaft.ed wagon. There's a lot I find trouble with here, that I can't really put my finger on/articulate. As an example, I'm going to return to his appraisal of BT's argument for Adel's townishness: it strikes me odd, from the previous incarnations of town cicero, that he would accept an unsubstantiated 'looks like scumhunting' argument, still less think it very good.

Also, Simenon dying: WIFOM defences are possible, but Cicero is fully aware of the utility of the 'kill the person who suspects you, then call wifom at every opportunity' scum tactic- he's been scum with me before.

[Oman]

Didn't you post that before Fonz?

[cicero]

The only thing Fonz posted before was

Oh crap, that was supposed to be the second half of the post. The first is here:

Bizarre to do that twice. Not scummy. Bizarre.

[shaft.ed]

How is it obvious that a Vig/SK killed Adel?

Come on don't be daft. Do you you seriously think the mafia would have spent a NK on Adel after yesterday?

[shaft.ed]

Shaft.ed, why did you say you were going to vote Adel and then instead hammer CKD?

This has already been covered by vollkan and Kison below, but some action was required for a lynch. And I said I would

choose

Adel

over

CKD. That choice was not available at deadline with Shanba's vote being cast and CKD being at L-1. But thanks for taking me out of context.

[Oman]

The only thing Fonz posted before was

Oh crap, that was supposed to be the second half of the post. The first is here:

Bizarre to do that twice. Not scummy. Bizarre.

Ah okay, threw me.