Alisae V Pine: Trees Apparently Make Good Treestumps

[MariaR]

Ducky, maria, what do you think of fb?

Can die.

[Menalque]

Ducky, maria, what do you think of fb?

Can die.

Can die... today?

[Firebringer]

[the_worst/Firebringer/Gamma Emerald]

why is gamma in here? I read ur post and still don't get ur conclusion.

[Firebringer]

And still no reply on my case on iconeum by anyone.

[Firebringer]

I feel like countering whatever iconeum says is scummy about me, but the only things I found was him saying I was shading him, which is buzzwords for "he scumreads me", and a thing about my push on him was because I thought he was a more realistic lynch than gamma emerald, which makes me go ???? does he townread gamma now? did I miss something there. I am lazy someone tell me if he townreads gamma because that is only way that line of logic makes sense of why I would push him over gamma in his mind.

anyways, yeah that's pretty much not true, I scumread iconeum more than gamma because I think my mind is way closer to iconeum conf scum by the way he has acted in this game than gamma.

My points on gamma are:
> Absent minded towards game and eternally in catchup
> No real discernable scumreads
> He questions things and isn't really interested in answers

and my feeling on those are like only one of them hard tells me that is a good scum indication, but even then I am like....eh maybe it isn't that good.

My reasoning on iconeum:
> eternally locked out of game and playing catchup
> no reason to be apathetic given the recent scum lynch, but is playing as though he is.
> interactions with players don't make sense in a general kind of way of solving.
> he could be playing to the crowd, I see that in general ways like just this page he is agreeing with alisae on 'scum theatre' when that isn't even scum theatre.
> and yeah heavy on the never mentioning engaging with penguin except to call him town, and nothing when he got voted by penguin. With a iso as empty as penguin, if I was iconeum, I would be heavy looking into that and iconeum been very reactionary with my vote. So that's a huge red flag.

SO yeah, I am more sure on iconeum.

Anyone hve questions?

[Gamma Emerald]

And still no reply on my case on iconeum by anyone.

It's okay I guess
But there was one thing you said in that post that I felt was odd, and you didn't respond when I called it out I believe

[Pine]

[Dannflor]

If I'm an inevitable lynch I'd rather be lynched today

The fire wagon is really icky right now

[Alisae]

uhhh I thought I saw something about it but didn’t know how hard it was, I’ve skimmed most of the day

Gamma I haven’t read wrong so far and I feel like tonally he is just very town, more so than Menalque

I haven’t played with Mena!scum, is his meta pretty distinct? Expand on what broken scum tonality means?

I ctrl + F fire and didn't see anything for him in ur post at all

[Dannflor]

I feel like countering whatever iconeum says is scummy about me, but the only things I found was him saying I was shading him, which is buzzwords for "he scumreads me", and a thing about my push on him was because I thought he was a more realistic lynch than gamma emerald, which makes me go ???? does he townread gamma now? did I miss something there. I am lazy someone tell me if he townreads gamma because that is only way that line of logic makes sense of why I would push him over gamma in his mind.

anyways, yeah that's pretty much not true, I scumread iconeum more than gamma because I think my mind is way closer to iconeum conf scum by the way he has acted in this game than gamma.

My points on gamma are:
> Absent minded towards game and eternally in catchup
> No real discernable scumreads
> He questions things and isn't really interested in answers

and my feeling on those are like only one of them hard tells me that is a good scum indication, but even then I am like....eh maybe it isn't that good.

My reasoning on iconeum:
> eternally locked out of game and playing catchup
> no reason to be apathetic given the recent scum lynch, but is playing as though he is.
> interactions with players don't make sense in a general kind of way of solving.
> he could be playing to the crowd, I see that in general ways like just this page he is agreeing with alisae on 'scum theatre' when that isn't even scum theatre.
> and yeah heavy on the never mentioning engaging with penguin except to call him town, and nothing when he got voted by penguin. With a iso as empty as penguin, if I was iconeum, I would be heavy looking into that and iconeum been very reactionary with my vote. So that's a huge red flag.

SO yeah, I am more sure on iconeum.

Anyone hve questions?

I agree with all your Ico points

Gamma, your points are somewhat true but they apply just as much to town!Gamma. And tonally I think he's much better than any of my lower reads. I'd also disagree he isn't really interested in the answers. I think /what/ he questions is sometimes silly but he doesn't drop his questioning until he gets his answers. It's not like he's asking questions and then just fine if they get ignored or lost into the thread to fill space.

Also I don't understand where Ico's scum reads come from except he follows whatever will look good for Ali

[Alisae]

@Jingle people need prods

[Dannflor]

uhhh I thought I saw something about it but didn’t know how hard it was, I’ve skimmed most of the day

Gamma I haven’t read wrong so far and I feel like tonally he is just very town, more so than Menalque

I haven’t played with Mena!scum, is his meta pretty distinct? Expand on what broken scum tonality means?

I ctrl + F fire and didn't see anything for him in ur post at all

he's town

the wagon on him has like at least 2 scum right now which I think should be a red flag

none of the governer fruit shit ever happens if Fire is scum

I feel scum have been playing this carefully since the LLD lynch D1, the brazen act of Fire that practically begs for another policy lynch ala DGB is really risky

I doubt Pine would allow that to happen even if that was what fire!scum would do. I also find his continued obstinate about protecting his own town reads and not really wanting to work with anyone to read as stubborn town a lot more than scum deliberately trying to force an unhealthy game state. If that's what scum wanted to, there are other ways to do that and they aren't as blatant I think

[Alisae]

“Wouldn’t allow that to happen”
Lol ok

[Alisae]

not like I am one to talk, but I am not listening to alisae on lynch order or any of this bs.

This is a D3 quote
Before the governor fruit was offered

Hey, anyone know who also said something along the line of this?

[Alisae]

People don't need to obey Alisae btw.

You can think for yourselves.


Leashing me for one day makes the most sense here.

[Menalque]

UNVOTE:

[Menalque]

Ali, I did a thing

[Alisae]

I just want to lynch someone but thats really really hard when 2 town are afk

[Menalque]

So, on Thursday, pine sent me this via jingle net:

AN OWL FLAPS DOWN FROM ABOVE AND SPEAKS TO YOU...

How are you doing, my lad? You seem to be handling yourself quite well along the merry questers despite your youth. Beware, your journey is quite far from over.

I have mulled over our prior bargaining, and have decided to offer you this deal privately. I will grant you the Informed fruit in twilight, and throw in your choice of Roleblocker or Rolecop fruit in the bargain. This could lead quite easily to you being the hero of the game, gaining at least one critical piece of information and perhaps a chance to stop yet another kill. We’re you to pull that off, I have no doubt that you would be a formidable candidate for the Rising Star Scummy, and would make the nomination myself post-game.

I have conditions. I require you to lead a counterwagon to the current ones up for debate. You must lead this effort vigorously, and with success, or I shall find your end of the bargain not to have been upheld and our deal void.

You must also give no indication to anyone that you have received communication from me, or I shall find you have not only failed to meet terms, but also broken faith. This would spell a rather ill end for you, I am afraid.

You may indicate your interest by including the word “blue” in your next post in whatever context you like. The colloquialism “blue in the face” would be suitable. If you wish to decline without prejudice, include the word “red.” If you wish to negotiate terms, keep that shit to yourself, this is a “take it or leave it” deal.

Cordially,
Eldest Pine

I weighed up what to do for a little while and decided bargaining with the evil tree stump was probably a bad idea. Now, Pine is canny enough that I'm sure there's quite a lot of WIFOM here because I doubt that he does this without being very consciously aware of the fact that I might just betray him and out it (see: what's happening rn). But I decided to say fuck it. I'm gonna play him at his own game.

So I decided to act like I was going along with it. Now, I misunderstood what he was getting at, because I thought he wanted me to take my pick of the others to lead a counter wagon on, and I picked PB. I thought he had a decent chance of picking up some traction, and I wanted to see who would switch. I also thought he was a place where I could look like I was "vigorously leading".

But then I got this on Thursday while I was pushing pb.

A TREE TRUNK AHEAD OF YOU SUDDENLY BURSTS INTO BLUE FIRE. THE FLAMES QUICKLY DIE DOWN, LEAVING A SMOLDERING NAME BURNT INTO THE BARK...

FIREBRINGER

So, I switched to fb to see who'd end up joining me. Again, I had to look convincing, which is why I was acting with fb as I was.

Most recent message I got was this, on Friday.

A DORMOUSE SCAMPERS OUT FROM THE UNDERBRUSH AND UP YOUR PANT LEG. BEFORE YOU CAN BRUSH IT OFF, IT WHISPERS IN YOUR EAR...

Bargain for whichever fruit you like. I may dicker with others regarding it, but will award it only to you. Remember, the terms are contingent upon both your success and your secrecy...

[Menalque]

I think the most worrying thing is that there was obviously no way for pine to stop me outing this even if I did really go for the deal once it got to twilight, which means obviously the most glaring implications need to be taken with a HUGE pinch of salt (namely, dann!scum and fb!town -- if you ask me dann probably is still scum, but I think it may not clear fb necessarily).

But in terms of movements: gamma actually comes out of this okay, I think. He doesn't seem to be that interested. I think it's worrying for icon's vote on fb, and I think, actually, the main concern for me is ducky. I don't think it's at all beyond pine to decide to NK last night in the hopes that the "conf!town" lands on one of the scum, especially if he already thought that ducky had a meaningful chance of being the save. I'm not sure about this, but I do think ducky needs to explain his movement towards fb in solid detail.

[Alisae]

omg Pine you must be desperate

[Alisae]

Yeah you weren’t really fooling me with this PB case tho tbh
I figured something was up because you talked about his older posts instead of his recent posts, so I wasn’t super interested in it.

[Alisae]

Like the progression sucked

[Alisae]

Like I’m honestly convinced you just townspewed yourself
So gj there ig

[Menalque]

Incidentally, I think pine was being genuine in trying to get me to take this deal. Most obviously, he knows that I want that rising star scummy, and I want it bad. In fact, that was probably one of the main things that did make me consider this. Hell, if it had been confirmed that the deal would actually hold despite being made via PM, I might have taken it. But then, I remembered losing to Pine in group chat because he made a ridiculous offer to town and town game threw by taking it.

So I decided the smart thing to do was to not bargain with scum, but to try and get what I could out of it. If Pine fully anticipated my betrayal and this was all a game of elaborate WIFOM, hats off. Fair play, you got me. But if we decide it's genuine (and I think we have a better chance of figuring that out together -- you, me, Dunn, and SS, or even just the three of you if this whole thing shakes your trust in me) AND we think that Pine believed I was going along with it, then I think we can try to figure out who's spewed town/scum based on their responses to my pushes, because I don't really think I was convincing enough to get town to change direction there, but I think I might have been convincing enough for scum to change direction and to be able to justify it based on my play.

Maybe I should have let this run on a little longer, but I had time to out this all tonight, and I didn't want to risk an apathy hammer.

Hoping this will breathe some life back into the game.