Open 70 - Two of Four (b9) (Game Over!) before 595

[LlamaFluff]

I still think we have better options in SG (who replaced jtyder) and strife (who replaced avinyl). What are your views on the other wagons that are appearing though (SG and farside), grimmy has to be scum buddies with someone.

I think I'm beginning to see why you're continually attacking me. You're mistakenly under the assumption that farside's wagon is some new phenomenon and it isn't

That was directed at armix, hence me quoting armix before I wrote it. However I do differ from you on what I think about farside, looking around where you voted her, I really cant comprehend a good reason for the vote. It mainly seemed to center around the topic of - farside wants to look at Max voting history, I dont think we should, she keeps pushing it and I dont understand, scum.

From what I have seen so far, I would lynch SG, strife and grimmy over farside with little hesitation. I dont see enough of a case on farside to merit a lynch.

So please, lay out a detailed post on why farside is scum. Also what do you think of my vote on SG? Is that a good vote? What about Arimx's Grimmy vote?

[dcorbe]

I still think we have better options in SG (who replaced jtyder) and strife (who replaced avinyl). What are your views on the other wagons that are appearing though (SG and farside), grimmy has to be scum buddies with someone.

I think I'm beginning to see why you're continually attacking me. You're mistakenly under the assumption that farside's wagon is some new phenomenon and it isn't

That was directed at armix, hence me quoting armix before I wrote it. However I do differ from you on what I think about farside, looking around where you voted her, I really cant comprehend a good reason for the vote. It mainly seemed to center around the topic of - farside wants to look at Max voting history, I dont think we should, she keeps pushing it and I dont understand, scum.

From what I have seen so far, I would lynch SG, strife and grimmy over farside with little hesitation. I dont see enough of a case on farside to merit a lynch.

So please, lay out a detailed post on why farside is scum. Also what do you think of my vote on SG? Is that a good vote? What about Arimx's Grimmy vote?

I've already laid out plenty of justification for my vote.

[LlamaFluff]

I've already laid out plenty of justification for my vote.

Well I just did a reread of you and I think you really dont have a whole lot of justification laid out atm. Most of your vote seems to stem from frustration more then actual evidence against farside.

From what I gather your case against farside are the following points

-She says lots of things are odd
-Misleading (which I dont think occurred)
-Frustration on both sides
-Wanting to look at Max lynch closer
-Dont agree with the Armix vote

I think farside is now more suspicious than Grimmy only because she's questioning Armix's hammer.

What armix did was not only appropriate but expected

considering how many scum tells Max was dropping. At *WORST* what armix did is a null tell, and she's trying to run with it.

I really dont like this change of reasoning either. You seem to be dismissing what armix did as scummy at all because it is what town would and should do. Congratz thats WIFOM. I can just as well say that armix is scum because he did exactly what town would do in order to kill a cit and get cit points. Jumping on farside for taking a different stance to a WIFOM situation to you is scummy.

If I missed anything in your case against farside, please, tell me. I really think though that it lacks merit and there are quite a few people that deserve the lynch over farside today. If that is your entire case, you need to look at others.

[ShadowGirl]

I apologize for not posting - my phone and internet went out for some inexplicable reason and it took a few days before a repairmen came to fix it.

Nonetheless, out of all the games I'm playing this is the one that I've clearly played horribly nor is my heart into it - if you wish to lynch me, then go ahead. However, I would prefer I be replaced - for town's sake.

[LlamaFluff]

Im going V/LA from Sunday to Tuesday for a backpacking trip, I should be back late Tuesday, early Wednesday at the latest.

For parting words incase of a post explosion, I think ShadowGirl should be the lynch today, and the farside case is still not really established enough to have a lynch come from it, Shadow jumping on it basically backed up everything I was thinking about it.

I might be able to make a late post tonight if conversation is going, probally last post for three days though.

[strife220]

So I did wrote a full novel on what I thought of everyone up to page 10, and apparently didn't save it. Instead of starting from scratch again and posting full analysis on all the players , I'm first going to post some highlights I found, followed by a full case against who I think is most likely scum (spoiler alert, it's DCorbe).


So opinions on the game in chronological order, avoiding too much on DCorbe since I'll post a full analysis afterwards:


The initial wagon against DCorbe was reasonable, though L-1 on page 3 is a little quick no matter how you look at it.

This post:

Yeah, just leaving him chilling there is awkward. Waiting on claim still.

A claim could easily be WIFOM, it seems like waiting for that is pointless. Unless he claims something, and you happen to be that role. I'm not trying to push that lynch, just wanted to point it out.

I find suspicious. I don't see a pro-town reason to say something like that.




This post

In post 22 where farside says: "I say we should vote those not trying to promote activity." sounds a little like scum not trying to sound like scum to me. Nothing around that post seems to warrant her saying that.

Vote: farside22

That was post 35 not 22 and towards alvin95 who has done nothing and said nothing helpful or trying to promote conversation in anyway which does not help the town.
Meh you could be town. I think 3 pages isn't really telling me anything about you except you are aggressive.

unvote:

(for now)

vote: alvinz95

Get in and start hunting scum or you are scum.

I was also very surprised at. I know Armix hits on it all later, so I'll just say that I agree on most all of his points. You should not be on a wagon with someone at L-1, ask them to claim, and then change your mind when they claim vanilla. If a Vanilla claim is enough to make you say "well, you could be town, UNVOTE," then you shouldn't have been part of the mob demanding a claim in the first place.


These posts seem contradictory:

Vote: dcorbe

. Sorry dude, your explanation seemed lacking to me. Randomness isn't a bad idea, but switching between all these people to get them to post, when some of them are posting, doesn't make the most sense.

Unvote

. Not feeling the dcorbe scuminess for now, but not sure about farside22. I'll do a reread on her and a couple other people tomorrow.

Similar to the farside incident, the only thing DCorbe did between these two posts was claim vanilla townie. The other thing that happened was the wagon lost steam. Makes the Vote/Unvote look opportunistic, due to the flip-flopping and poor reasoning given.


Around page 4, Max starts setting up his own lynch. Just to nail down my opinions here, he did say many things that can be interpreted as scummy. However, the DCorbe and Farside wagons also had reasonable logic behind them, so I find it kind of weird that so many wagons occurred D1. If DCorbe or Farside get lynched and flip scum, early D1 is definitely going to give a wealth of information.


Page 6 is where the Armix-Farside bout got ugly. As I've already said, I believe Armix is right here. More interesting is Farside's freak-out. I'm off the opinion that scum are more likely to lose control over insignificant things than town. Will elaborate if anybody disagrees, but the opinion is based on a bit of meta and a bit of knowledge of how scum are more nervous due to fear of getting caught.

If the person freaking out is often hot-headed, I would consider it as a null-tell. However, most of the game Farside seems level-headed, and as such I think this freak-out may be a scumtell. If anybody has meta to show that she's been exceptionally irritable as town before, then I'll reconsider here.


These posts:

I don't think Armix is scum I just think he is narrow minded.

I'm starting to think this as well.

Unvote

of hypocrisy.

I endorse a Max lynch now. He has been actively scummy as opposed to subtlely as I have accused dcorbe and farside of.

That is L-1. Just FYI. Claim and what not.

I was shocked withs. This is the third time D1 that Armix supported a bandwagon at L-1 and demanded a claim from the bandwagonee. Armix: You are obviously conscious that your actions were hypocritic, but I don't see you justifying this anywhere. Sorry for digging up an old grave, but I would love to see you explain how your actions were pro-town, especially considering your previously stated opinion on lynching after a Vanilla claim.


End D1:
Not surprisingly, most comments I highlighted here were from the most active players. Grimmy, Alvinz, JTDyer, and, admittedly, Avinyl were generally lurky the whole day. However, in the few posts they made (with the exception of the contradiction from JTDyer), nothing jumped out particularly strongly on D1.



Disclaimer: Normally when I enter a game I either do an extensive write-up (like I was planning on doing here), or jump straight into the game where it's starting, posting my opinion on the present bandwagon and whatnot. This game I'm doing it a little differently because there were so many thing I felt need to bring up. I hope people can agree that the objects I've highlighted are worth mentioning, and that I don't come off as scum FOSing left right and centre. I do have more concrete opinions of who I think is most likely scum, and I will make that clearer in a soon-coming post.




More tomorrow, bed now.

[strife220]

EBWOP

Unvote

assuming my vote was still were my predecessor placed it.

[armlx]

I was shocked withs. This is the third time D1 that Armix supported a bandwagon at L-1 and demanded a claim from the bandwagonee. Armix: You are obviously conscious that your actions were hypocritic, but I don't see you justifying this anywhere. Sorry for digging up an old grave, but I would love to see you explain how your actions were pro-town, especially considering your previously stated opinion on lynching after a Vanilla claim.

I felt that I had been tunnel visioning on farside, something I've been wary of ever since Weather Mafia. I have come to realize I think she is scum in every game I am in with her, and was afraid that I was just straight up wrong here.

[strife220]

And what about DCorbe? You were the one to tell him to claim or die as well, and then chose to go after Farside after.
I understand why you would re-route to attack Farside, but if your suspicion of Farside drops, the logical thing to do seems to be go back after DCorbe. Like you said, he got to L-1 for a reason, and the vanilla claim shouldn't have effected anything.

[armlx]

I understand why you would re-route to attack Farside, but if your suspicion of Farside drops, the logical thing to do seems to be go back after DCorbe. Like you said, he got to L-1 for a reason, and the vanilla claim shouldn't have effected anything.

There are 2 reasons behind this.

1) Everything Max had done up to that point was suspicious.

2) Meta-based information from an ongoing game where he was revealed as town.

[armlx]

2) Meta-based information from an ongoing game where he was revealed as town.

Sorry, EBWODP, this is incorrect. I'm confusing join times. This is currently one of my reasons to not suspect him. It's pretty much just reason 1.

[ShadowGirl]

For what it's worth - I am not scum. That is why I prefer to be replaced.

[armlx]

For what it's worth - I am not scum. That is why I prefer to be replaced.

For future reference, saying this means nothing.

[strife220]

Round/Day 2

This post is very strange

My list of suspects consist of those who voted for MAX's lynch. But because max was...well...Max...it is not nearly enough to cast a vote.

both because it doesn't make a lot of sense, and because he's singling out the majority because he doesn't belong to it.


This is also strange

I'm trying to figure out who would have killed Mr. Blonde in this scenario

Not liking that last Grimmy post, on top of what farside said there the "oh no, 2 dead townies" thing.

First, I'll say that I couldn't find a good reason to pick out Mr Blonde. However I generally disagree with speculation about why someone was killed. I guess you disagree Armix? Why is conversing about why a kill happened pro-town? Don't think scum would make their kill choices to WIFOM the town? Same question to DCorbe, who joined the speculation post 199.

Anyone who would want him killed off on N1 would be someone who he was either A) pushing on or B) refuting regularly

Too much WIFOM in sentences like that to be in anyway useful, in my opinion.

Anyway, since the Max execution (which I completely missed), and after the NK, killing someone not protown, or suspicious could mean that the scum could all be experienced.

This doesn't make any sense to me, but I guess he's not around to explain it.


I find it hilarious that on Armix's D2 'who's scum' list (post 218), he picks Farside and DCorbe as 2 most likely to be town. I know I already addressed this, but that's weird.


Around here (page 9) is where suspicion for Grimmy builds up. The case isn't terrible, but I certainly don't think it's the strongest one that could be made. I'm unsure what to make of this, because there are a number of different contradicting motives for scum here.



This post I don't like

I'm here.

I don't think its right to judge dcorbe by what he said before. I think looking at what has happened recently is a lot better.

because a) DCorbe wasn't really the topic of interest of the day. I don't see why he would bring this up.
b) It's... wrong. If someone's scum on D2, they were scum on D1. Ignoring previous evidence is just a ridiculous thing to say.


In post 234 Shadowgirl picks out Max as one of her top 3 suspects ... ... ???
Grimmy in post 238 doesn't think this is strange ???
I suppose throwing out suspicion without actually having knowledge of the people you suspect is a scum-tell. I've just never seen this one before.

I seem to be forgetting which threads I need to reread and which I've already done so. o_o;

My third would be alvinz then.

Really doesn't sound sincere.

She does it again here after Alvinz has been replaced

Well, I attempted to get some scumtells, but when going through it, I got nothing. I plan on investigating someone else today.

Anyway, how's that coming along?

These sorts of 'connection' posts I always find interesting:

Actually as much as Alvinz didn't help that much reading dcorbe and Armix I feel like there is something there I missed before. As much as Armix beat me up for not keeping my vote on dcorbe I wonder if it wasn't bussing.

unvote:
vote: Armix

Farside, your implication is that Armix seemed to be bussing DCorbe here. Do you think he was faking a bus (i.e. planned on backing off before the lynch went off), or backed off for another reason? What do you think Armix-scum's mindset would have been there.


Post 269, LlamaFluff has replaced in and made a post against Avinyl, my former self. I'd say the case isn't very strong, but Avinyl was a bit of a lurker so I won't OMGUS over that. However the voting trend here is strange. You did a re-read, voted Shadowgirl, and then 2 posts later (no change in content), voted Avinyl. Ironic how one of your main reasons for voting Avinyl was his switch in opinions. Please elaborate a little on why the change of opinions, and whether or not SG is still high enough on your scum-list for you to be content with her lynch (apologies if the answer to this shows up later in the game, which i think it may). *EDITED LATER* Bah, pretty much answered in post 338. Vote goes from Avinyl to SG. Your reason being 'reread' ... again. The first time I can buy a re-read changing your mind enough to switch from SG to Avinyl, but another re-read causing you to switch back? Strange behaviour.


Page 12 is a lot of back and forth between dcorbe and Farside - this time with Farside having a reason to get frustrated.

HOW ON D2 DOES ANALYZING A UNANIMOUS LYNCH ON D1 PROVIDE ANY USEFUL INFORMATION

Sorry dcorbe, the argument went WAY over your head apparently. Not sure if you get her point yet or not.
Most of the argument here is noise

I wouldn't say its useless, but more that right now is not the optimal time to try and draw info from the max wagon. I mean,

its pretty assured both scum were on it,

but so was almost all the town

See bold. Why is he saying it is pretty assured both are on the wagon.

"Pretty assured" = null tell.


I'll post opinions on the argument about analyzing the Max-wagon when I do my dcorbe attack.


End of where I replaced!
Next up: An attack on dcorbe to be continued tomorrow..

[armlx]

I guess you disagree Armix? Why is conversing about why a kill happened pro-town

No, I don't usually, but Mr. Blonde was so far off any scum kill radar I had that I wanted to go back and see. I wouldn't use that as my sole basis for thinking someone was scum, but it would be fairly valid as part of a case.

[ShadowGirl]

For what it's worth - I am not scum. That is why I prefer to be replaced.

For future reference, saying this means nothing.

Thank you for the advice.

Also what do you think of my vote on SG? Is that a good vote? What about Arimx's Grimmy vote?

Why do you need someone else to justify as to whether your vote is good? You should know whether it or not.

[armlx]

Why do you need someone else to justify as to whether your vote is good? You should know whether it or not.

This is a decent point. Asking what people think of a case you make is good, but not asking for direct support in a vote.

[skitzer]

Cass replaces Grimmy.

Vote Count 7 of Day 2

(2) farside22 (dcorbe, ShadowGirl)
(2) ShadowGirl (farside22, LlamaFluff)
(1) Cass (armlx)
(0) LlamaFluff
(0) strife220
(0) armlx
(0) dcorbe

(2) Not Voting (Cass, strife220)

With

7

alive, it takes

4

to lynch!

ShadowGirl, please confirm weather you would like to be replaced or not.

[armlx]

Cass, mind posting full thoughts on everyone after a reread?

[Cass]

Hi. I will replace Grimmy. I have just finished rereading, it was interesting... I do have a vote-preference, but it is very hard to be sure.
I must say that killing Blonde was smart of the scum, it gives us virtually no information and seems to have made the discussion pretty unfocused.

I shall now try to write down my thoughts on everyone.

[Cass]

Ok, it is the first time I try this, so maybe forgive me some little mistakes? In alphabetical order:

Armlx: Hammered Max. Wonders who would kill Blonde. Neither seems to mean much, though. His case against me/Grimmy (post 216) seems pretty weak to me. however, the same goes for the cases of other players. So, again, a null-tell?

Dcorbe: Plays aggressively, tries to get responses. He voted me (Grimmy) for saying the scum was on Max' wagon. I admit Grimmy's reasoning there was... non-existent. Still: a bit harsh to vote based on that, but not really a tell. His behaviour does feel a bit scummy. I'm highly interested in Strife's forthcoming case against him.

Farside: Got to L-1 on day 1, threw a tantrum, claimed vanilla. I believe that is a scum-tell. Since then, she has been pointing at Dcorbe (a lot), Armlx (a lot) and is currently voting Shadow. It seems to me that she is trying very hard to shift the attention to others. I also felt she was working very hard to tie Dcorbe to Armlx, yet she isn't voting for either of them but now ties Dcorbe to Shadow instead.

Scummy.

Llama: Seems to be lying low? I am not sure about him, also because of the replacement (lots of those in this game, btw...). Could be lurkerish scum, I guess, maybe. I have not seen a convincing case against him.

Shadow: Has claimed town (unprovoked), has two votes on her. Farside thinks that Shadow and Dcorbe are the scumpair. I do not find this case convincing either, but then, I'm already assuming Farside is scum, so that could be tunnel vision on my part.

Strife: Switched votes, but he had just replaced. His predecessor did some dubious thing. He voted Alvinz for lurking. His post 212 (about not knowing when night ends) could be a sneaky trick. Or it could be proof he isn't scum. Right now I think he is a townie.

[Cass]

Btw, I would vote Farside. I am not voting yet because it would put her at L-1 and I want to read Strife's case on Dcorbe first (I'm not risking a hammer).

@Farside: Why don't you vote Dcorbe? Why should we lynch Shadowgirl first?

[farside22]

Btw, I would vote Farside. I am not voting yet because it would put her at L-1 and I want to read Strife's case on Dcorbe first (I'm not risking a hammer).

@Farside: Why don't you vote Dcorbe? Why should we lynch Shadowgirl first?

My problem with dcorbe is almost every game I have been in with him he turn up town even though he seems scummy as hell to me. I have yet to see him turn up scum. I felt ShadowGirl more deserving of a vote based on day 1 and jtd's vote and her sudden jump from one person to another based on bad reasoning.

Farside, your implication is that Armix seemed to be bussing DCorbe here. Do you think he was faking a bus (i.e. planned on backing off before the lynch went off), or backed off for another reason? What do you think Armix-scum's mindset would have been there.

Armix went from aggressive to saying dcorbe lynch didn't mean anything. Day 2 dcorbe defends him, armix defends dcorbe it just seemed buddy, buddy to me. I still have that niggling in the back of my head about the two of them. I'm still waiting for Armix to post an analysis. Whatever happened with that?

[armlx]

Vote stands. I do not like how only 2 people on that list are remotely grouped anywhere near town/scum.

[farside22]

Vote stands. I do not like how only 2 people on that list are remotely grouped anywhere near town/scum.

What do you mean?