Mini 2097 - Make Me Regret This Game Over

[jjh927]

Well I have too many scumreads/leans right now to say I feel 3 scum is confirmed but I have this itching suspicion of an arsonist or something similar. I guess we'll know when we all go up in flames.

p-edit
jjh as long as you don't break the rules surrounding not quoting private information then I would like to hear anything that's going to help me sort you. Because I feel like it's not really a conspiracy theory at all.

I mean, it's a theory that I'm hiding a conspiracy from you in the PT with deb

I'm confused. I just think that you used info deb gave you to make calculated kills. Or at the very least it factored into it. If you think giving us a summary of the PT helps your case then go for it

The main thing to note is that deb only told me he was informed that there was at least one role in the game that had to do with water. I knew nothing else about his role

[eth0s]

Oh and an arsonist douses people with gas and can continue to douse people until they choose to ignite then everyone doused will burn and die together.

[Menalque]

Oh and an arsonist douses people with gas and can continue to douse people until they choose to ignite then everyone doused will burn and die together.

Sounds kinky, I’m in

[eth0s]

Well I have too many scumreads/leans right now to say I feel 3 scum is confirmed but I have this itching suspicion of an arsonist or something similar. I guess we'll know when we all go up in flames.

p-edit
jjh as long as you don't break the rules surrounding not quoting private information then I would like to hear anything that's going to help me sort you. Because I feel like it's not really a conspiracy theory at all.

I mean, it's a theory that I'm hiding a conspiracy from you in the PT with deb

I'm confused. I just think that you used info deb gave you to make calculated kills. Or at the very least it factored into it. If you think giving us a summary of the PT helps your case then go for it

The main thing to note is that deb only told me he was informed that there was at least one role in the game that had to do with water. I knew nothing else about his role

mastina outed her own water thing pretty quickly. I still think that's weird. And I still think you might've already known that before she said it. Like I said, feel free to post the not-logs if the mod okays it but the main thing I'm concerned about is something you could omit anyway so I'm just not sure what it'll prove

[Menalque]

Is that 3p or a scum role?

[jjh927]

Oh I apparently do tell deb what my full role is I must have forgot that

[jjh927]

Is that 3p or a scum role?

It's originally 3p but thanks to the brave efforts of Alisae anyone can be an arsonist

[eth0s]

Oh and an arsonist douses people with gas and can continue to douse people until they choose to ignite then everyone doused will burn and die together.

Sounds kinky, I’m in

found the arsonist.

On a serious note, mena. Why does it feel like you're itching to vote me and why does it feel like you've become so trustworthy of jjh given your past relationship this game?

You've made a few posts implying that you're worried about my alignment and it really sticks out to me now that you're asking jjh how he feels.

[jjh927]

Jjh what is your read on Eth0s?

He's towny in quite number of ways, and I don't doubt any of them at all because of how he pushed for elements

Okay so why do you think he’s this wrong on you?

People are allowed to be wrong

[eth0s]

Less scum than TL, more scum than everyone else in the game

Because I'm getting flashbacks to the time when a load of people lynched scum!mastina while I said she was town because of some role stuff. I've realised I just don't really try to place mastina very hard

I know I have scum colored lenses on right now but this looks weird.

[jjh927]

I think me and eth0s have some different approaches to the game

[jjh927]

Less scum than TL, more scum than everyone else in the game

Because I'm getting flashbacks to the time when a load of people lynched scum!mastina while I said she was town because of some role stuff. I've realised I just don't really try to place mastina very hard

I know I have scum colored lenses on right now but this looks weird.

Which bit

[eth0s]

essentially putting her in the null-scum category for... less than optimal reasons.

I still don't totally understand the mastina/jjh relationship out of this game but it feels like a cop out. Maybe that's

because

I don't know about it but idk.

[jjh927]

I mean it kinda is a cop-out because there is a mental barrier between me and putting effort into placing mastina

[eth0s]

Jjh you've ignored me asking why mastina was a townread all game and now shes a scumread of yours

Thefuck

I'll help you bus your buddy if you want but I'm not happy

VOTE: Mastina

I think she was a townread because it was easy for me to just say she was town and be done with it ngl. I've gained a bit of self awareness

I'm not voting there yet;

I'm looking for something when she next starts posting

her next post

Umm also deb's info was that there was at least one role in the game that had to do with water.

My role also has to do with water; I'm a 2-liter water bottle. My ability is rather different from TD's tho.

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I need to think about this one.

[jjh927]

Also all of my recent experience with her was scum!me successfully fooling her, which is actually a fairly unique position

[jjh927]

Eth0s, since it's not actually important any more because I think I misjudged mastina's thought process, what I was looking for was to see whether or not she suddenly started to scumread me

[eth0s]

mastina is a bad vote for today because she dies tonight.

this still confuses the fuck out of me.

[eth0s]

Eth0s, since it's not actually important any more because I think I misjudged mastina's thought process, what I was looking for was to see whether or not she suddenly started to scumread me

Noted.

I need a mental break. I'm going tunnel mode and that isn't going to be helpful in the middle of my D3 reread so ttfn

[jjh927]

Specifically because in one of those scumgames that fooled her, I was able to do a pretty damn good replication of my towngame as scum ONLY while being an unrecruited traitor, such that I got myself nightkilled by scum N1 except of course that recruited me, and then suddenly my motivation dropped again.

So, in other words, if Mastina was placing me via how I'm posting because of her awareness of how obvious the effect of my motivation to play a game on my posting is, talking about a traitor existing could have set off alarm bells. But it didn't because my posting here is so far beyond that

[Menalque]

Oh and an arsonist douses people with gas and can continue to douse people until they choose to ignite then everyone doused will burn and die together.

Sounds kinky, I’m in

found the arsonist.

On a serious note, mena. Why does it feel like you're itching to vote me and why does it feel like you've become so trustworthy of jjh given your past relationship this game?

You've made a few posts implying that you're worried about my alignment and it really sticks out to me now that you're asking jjh how he feels.

Not really fam, you’re overthinking this

I was asking jjh bc I wanted to know why he was TRing you despite one logical response from town being pushed is that they’re being pushed by scum using a bad case

[Menalque]

Trust me if I wanted to vote you I would, but there’s just lil things like I was kinda feeling good about jjh and now you’ve sort of blown that up for me

I think that’s probtown but also can’t put it past scum trying to derail the gamestate and the lynch if TL is scum

But overall I think that’s p unlikely so you’re about half an inch below locktown for me

[Menalque]

Also doesn’t help that I don’t have meta with you as that makes me extra paranoid about being pocketed

[Menalque]

I need to reread EP’s posting

[mastina]

Longer version: TL/EP were the scumteams only viable mislynches yesterday and when push came to shove jjh was going to bat for elements and trying to wrangle up the EP lynch, where you were conveniently parked all day and then did the same shit as day 1 where you showed up after lynch to shitpost and try to take some credit for it (man I so scumread elements ha ha)

Still runs into a chronology problem mate.

VOTE: Elements

VC 1.1

Elements (2): mastina, Menalque

d1 final vc

Elements (2): mastina, Menalque

VOTE: Elements
Would also vote Espresso or Elbirn; these three are reads where Adorable and I seem to have some overlap. (TL is still a personal scumread of mine but Adorable has a townread there, so.)

Elements (2):

mastina, Adorable

Espresso/Elements (I think one, but not both, of them are scum, but I can't tell which)

Elbirn

TL

This is about where I am at readswise.

I mean right now there's not much for me to play with, because most of the town is more or less on the same page, thinking there's probably 1-3 (average opinion of 2, thinking it's not all three, with some thinking it's only one and some thinking it's all three but most agreeing it's probably 2) scum in {Elements, Elbirn, EspressoPatronum}.

I agree with that assessment.

So I don't really have a need to push much right now because there's not a big fight I think is TvT (the worst I've seen is skirmishes) and there's not a big wagon on someone I think is town and there is a reasonable wagon on someone I think is scum, so to be honest my engagement right now isn't at the highest possible level but that's mostly because frankly it just doesn't need to be, right now.

It'll be higher when it's required tho, can guarantee that.

VC 2.1

EspressoPatronum (4):

Menalque, TiphaineDeath, TemporalLich, mastina

Elements (2):

Adorable, eth0s

TemporalLich (2):

EspressoPatronum, jjh927

That's a pretty decent place in the EP wagon for scum to jump in and she did it anyway when she has 2 people she finds scummier than EP. One of them being you (Elbirn) who actually appears to have a decent chance at being lynched.

The Espresso wagon is larger and is still a scumread. Why wouldn't I vote a scumread who has a larger wagon? Would you prefer me vanity vote a scumread? It's being pragmatic.

Where did your TL scumread go

It didn't go anywhere, but it happens to be a scumread Adorable disagrees with--my scumreads on the three Es, however, are reads Adorable is more or less all onboard with, so.

It's you looking at three names and saying "one or all of these are scum", an exercise which can be performed with any three names drawn from a hat and have about the same meaning.

Wrong.
It's saying that I, very specifically, believe that the group of {Elbirn, Elements, Espresso} contains two scum, no more no less, with one scum (most likely TL) outside of the grouping.
This stance is a group consensus stance.
Some people think that there's only one scum in the three;
Some people think that all three are scum.
But MOST people think that two, and exactly two, players in that group of three are scum and I happen to be among them.

Butyeah at this stage would vote any of {TL, Espresso, Elements}.
While Elbirn could still be scum I'm willing to buy jjh's defense there for now.

VC 2.2

jjh927 (3):

Menalque, TemporalLich, Elbirn

Elements (2):

Adorable, eth0s

Elbirn (2):

TiphaineDeath, Elements

EspressoPatronum (1):

mastina

TemporalLich (1):

jjh927

VOTE: jjh

The scumteam is literally just EspressoPatronum, TemporalLich, and probably Elements here. (Darkhorse Elbirn but Elbirn's scumread can at least plausibly come from town.)

I'd like to know if I'm a counterwagon to something at which point we also discover that TL was not considered a viable counterwagon

You were a counterwagon to both EspressoPatronum and TemporalLich, the only other two wagons with real momentum.

I mean, outside chance of Elbirn/Elements as both of them HAD wagons, but none with the same support as those two.

VC 1.3

Elements (4):

Adorable, eth0s, Elbirn, Menalque

Elbirn (2):

TiphaineDeath, Elements

EspressoPatronum (2):

mastina, jjh927

jjh927 (1):

TemporalLich

Am I right in thinking that the lynchpool for most people today is something like (EP, elbirn, TL, ele)? Could we try to narrow that down to 2 candidates so that we have a choice but it’s clearer what everyone’s defined stances are

Sure.
EP ~= TL > Elements > Elbirn.

Elements was a scumread of mine the entire game.
That's not "after the fact".
That's pure simple fact, shown easily from isoing me.
I voted Elements. Undeniable. The Elements wagon early on was half me--this is a fact. Without my vote, it'd have been a vanity wagon.
I moved off of Elements when his wagon didn't gain traction yet a wagon on another scumread did.
There was a grand total of one opportunity for me to revote Elements--one opportunity. Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 10:27 pm. Elements had four votes then. If your point revolved around that window of opportunity having been missed, your case wouldn't have a chronology issue because I'll be honest. I don't have an answer for why I didn't vote Elements there. I should've, I don't know why I didn't, but I didn't so I can't defend against it, can't pretend I did. Heck I don't really have any clue why I didn't. I can guess, that my posts being basically prod-dodging that I wasn't thinking, but my best guess was that I didn't see a VC at the time yet schadd's posts doesn't have an edit stamp meaning that there was a VC there so I should've seen the votes and known so that can't be it meaning my leading theory is that I saw the vc but didn't process it as "oh Elements can be voted".
BUT I DIGRESS.

My point is--your story doesn't hold up to the actual game facts because what you're saying happened, didn't.