Newbie 580 - Game Over!

[Amor]

Damn. Good game.

Props to Macavenger and WLC for their play. Mac, from your posting alone there wasn't much that made me suspicious, and I obviously wasn't onto Weyouns.

I guess what I'll take from this game is not to be persuaded by the rest of the town (at least the ones that were talking) and talk myself into changing my suspicions again. But seriously Harvey. Not helping.

Sorry I never got back to you guys at the end of day one, unforunatly I managed to hit my head on some concrete and suffered a concusion, the docs kept me in the hospital for awhile.

That's a lot better excuse than I've ever had for not posting.

Oh, and I really have to say that I enjoyed Amor's playing all the way through.

Thanks! I enjoyed your posting style, although you could have stood to make your suspicions more clear.

[Amor]

Damn. Good game.

Props to Macavenger and WLC for their play. Mac, from your posting alone there wasn't much that made me suspicious, and I obviously wasn't onto Weyouns.

I guess what I'll take from this game is not to be persuaded by the rest of the town (at least the ones that were talking) and talk myself into changing my suspicions again. But seriously Harvey. Not helping.

Sorry I never got back to you guys at the end of day one, unforunatly I managed to hit my head on some concrete and suffered a concusion, the docs kept me in the hospital for awhile.

That's a lot better excuse than I've ever had for not posting.

Oh, and I really have to say that I enjoyed Amor's playing all the way through.

Thanks! I enjoyed your posting style, although you could have stood to make your suspicions more clear.

[Harvey Pew]

I take a few pages off and come back to find I'm dead. Oh, well, just like missing out on Muerrto's death.

You can blame if you want - and you

certainly

do want - but I don't think I should have to spoon-feed the other townies, they could have made up their own minds based on the

whole

game.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

I take a few pages off and come back to find I'm dead. Oh, well, just like missing out on Muerrto's death.

You can blame if you want - and you

certainly

do want -

but I don't think I should have to spoon-feed the other townies, they could have made up their own minds based on the

whole

game.

Don't take offense, but the part I bolded in your quote is

EXACTLY

why you lost this game. I'm the Mod and I can be objective about everyone's play because I could care less who wins or loses. And speaking from an objective standpoint, the others have every right in the world to blame you because you are the reason that the town lost the game in LyLo on Day 3. You nailed a scum, had him dead to rights, and then threw it away by being hardheaded and arrogant.

There are, at the start of the game, 8 other individuals, not all of whom have the same experience, nor see things the same way as you do. If you see something in someone's play, the chances are high that the other players DO NOT see that same thing. This game is all about providing information. If you don't tell people what you see, then how can you expect them to follow your vote?

Frankly, your attitude was a bit arrogant, because effectively you're saying that you see something so blindingly obvious that everyone else should see it as well, and you can't be bothered to explain it to the others. I can't speak for the actual players, but that's how I took your posts at the end. And if I took them that way and I was just modding, imagine how someone emotionally invested in winning a game in LyLo would feel.

Your job as a Townie is to provide as much information as possible. If you don't, then no one is going to vote the way you want them to, simply because every other townie is paranoid that you're trying to mislead them, which is exactly what the scum HAVE TO DO to win the game.

[curiouskarmadog]

I tried to bring Harvey out and talk the final day but he simply wasnt having it. To be honest though, after his play yesterday..."the game is going to slow, lets lynch Muerrto, when he flips town we lynch Mac" attitude pretty much had me sold on him being scum, it would have taken a lot fo convince me other wise.

questions for WLC/Mac...why did you kill Gamma last night?

[WeyounsLastClone]

Wow, I don't look for a while, and you guys lynch Harvey without me...

Thanks everyone for a great game! Mac and JimSauce for being my scumpartners; and the town players for their various ways of playing, each with what they brought to the game.

On my lurking, I don't think I played this game much different than I did my first games where I was town. I'm trying to change my ways, but I've always been a bit of a low profile player. Mainly because often I don't know exactly what I want to say/can say without looking suspicious. Often when I start posting more, I somehow draw attention to me that gets me lynched. Anyway, in this game I could use it a bit as a shield.

First day I felt really sorry for BaB. Putting so much effort in the game (which I found very admireable), only to get lynched. But as scum, it was quite convenient. During night 1 JimSauce left, so I had to decide mysefl who to kill (while JimSauce also didn't use his roleblock, which didn't matter anyway). At that point I though td and Radio_Interference/Static were the most townie, but somehow I decided to nk td, keeping in mind that RI's playstyle could draw some suspicion day 2.

Radio, I think you played well, and I wouldn't change to much. I don't know how your playstyle would work out if you're scum though. The fact that people couldn't read you could partly be because you were actually town, and didn't have to lie, you could just say what you thought at that point. It'll be interesting to play with you as scum someday!

Muerrto played well, although in the end I think his going into what he would and would do, and how he wouldn't play as scum is what necked him. Maybe he could've used some other arguments.

I knew my case on ckd was not quite strong (it couldn't be a real case, because of course ckd is town), but enough to make me look scumhunting. I didn't feel ckd's case against me was very strong either, so I tried just to keep it going, without overplaying it. Trying to shift more and more to Muerrto, once Muerrto got in heavy water. I was really unsure if I should have hammered Muerrto when I did, but in the end it did work out.

Why kill Gamma night 2? We were mainly doubting between Harvey and Gamma. Basically we ended up with Gamma because he was a bit unpredictable, and it could confuse town a bit. I wanted to keep ckd in the game, because I could keep my case that way, and Amor in, because I felt he thought I was town, and that in a possible endgame with me/Amor/ckd, Amor would help me lynch ckd.

All in all, it was a nice game to play. Too bad of all the replacements. You can say what you want of my lurking, I do keep an eye on the game, and I almost never get a replacement.

Thanks to the mod as well! Vel, you did a great job, keeping up with this long game!

[Macavenger]

Yeah, we were keeping Amor/CKD alive, since you both suspected each other, and both linked one of the real scum as the other's partner. I was fully expecting either myself or WLC (more likely me) to get lynched Day 3. If either of us went down, it probably would have been relatively easy to convince one of you to vote the other Day 4, since you would already think the other was the dead scum's partner.

I wanted Gamma over Harvey because I was hoping (not really expecting, but worth a shot) that it might knock a bit of wind out of the "oh man Mac is scum" case by demonstrating that Muerrto had been wrong about his pair.

There was no way I was going to let you be killed N2 CKD, because you were basically our best friend in the town. You did pretty well to work out that WLC was scum, but having someone who was willing to say I was likely town even after I made myself look bad driving the Muerrto lynch was very useful. You had some other convenient opinions too - Muerrto pretty much nailed it where he said I was probably using you (though I don't think it was because you weren't paying attention). I pounced all over the Muerrto/WLC link because it would either help me get a townie lynched if WLC went down, or possibly make WLC look a bit better if I got Muerrto lynched. My choice to go after Amor over Muerrto at first when I replaced in was because you already suspected him. All that combined with the whole CKD/Amor suspect each other bit made you kind of invaluable from my perspective.

Oh, and while my case for who Harvey's partner was was partially honest, in the sense that the "evidence" really did look the best in WLC's direction, I did avoid making the case on CKD to try to frame him up a bit if I lost the argument, while actually fingering my own partner so as not to make one of the townies mad at me.

[Muerrto]

I thought your play as scum was good Mac, just over confident. When you hit the scene you acted like you knew who the scum and town were, which you did. That to me telegraphed extra information which allowed me to nail you as scum. Granted I paired you with EVERYONE wrong hehe. Amor, Gamma, but I always had you in there.

Building a case off a mislynch is always a scum tactic. Wish I'd been able to convince the town but not sure we'd have found WLC anyway.

Only thing I'd change is to tone it down a little when going after a townie. Don't make it clear that you already know their role.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Guys look who's back.

I have so much to say. First of all, I'm really sorry about my constant hopping from person to person in the beginning. I think I really hurt the town's chances of winning. It was a pretty done deal that I was going to be lynched (to me at least), so I was trying to explain my suspicions.

Agh, when I

finally

sat down to think about it for a while (accusing JS), I was right, but my previous behavior made it unable to believe me.

I checked the game periodically to find out I was being mentioned in like a third of the posts of the game. Totally ridiculous.

So, I personally take a lot of blame for town's loss. Does anyone have any words of advice?

P.S. Trust me, I have improved a WHOLE lot. I wouldn't consider myself good at this game quite yet, but I'm getting there. Can't wait to play a game with you guys again.

[WeyounsLastClone]

BaB, I think the start of the game has done you the most harm, from there on the more you tried to explain, the more you were attacked. It's just that you posted so much content, everyone found something that could be suspicious. Maybe have more of a focus. Not comment on everyone and everything, but only on one or two main suspects. That said, I can only encourage the dedication you brought to the game, and I wish I could so easily post stuff and find suspicions, and bring content into the game, where I'm town. I can imagine it was quite frustrating for you, bringing so much to the game, only to be seen as suspicions. But it was nice playing with you, and I hope we see each other again in some other game.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Thanks for the info WLC. You did a great job using your meta (of not posting too much when town) to succeed in the game. You fooled me, so you did a good job. Nice playing with you also.


Congratulations, this game broke the record for biggest newbie game and some other records!

(semi-bump to see if anyone else has any more criticism)

[Macavenger]

You improved a lot during this game. It was really obvious reading over your posts knowing you were town. There was a very clear progression. I feel like it should have been obvious without hindsight too, but I can't say that for certain.

Your case on JS was pretty solid, and obviously accurate.

Honestly I think a couple townies, especially Muerrto, prejudged you based on your early play and weren't willing to see how you were improving through the game, and just tunneled on you looking at everything you did for more evidence. A lot of the cases I made on Muerrto and Amor Day 2 were reasonably honest in the sense that I didn't like the way they pushed your lynch from a town perspective, and felt like I would have made similar cases against them had I been town.

While I suppose you could take the blame for the town's loss in the sense that it was your early play that kind of started the snowball, there were plenty of other factors. The people tunneling on you wasn't helpful, and town's refusal to see lurking as scummy and punish it was a really big one.

Oh, and this didn't break the size record - 584 went a couple pages longer.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

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