Alisae V Pine: Trees Apparently Make Good Treestumps

[Titus]

Scum do not claim self resolving roles in 99% of cases.

Is that why I end up dying each time i fake a doc claim as scum? Fuck.

Btw I claim self resolving roles as scum, Titus
And gotten away with it

Not a good argument

Fire, you held the game hostage to where I can't lynch high priority scum like Maria. Don't lecture me on a good argument.

My cranky ass needs sleep.

[Firebringer]

Fire, you held the game hostage to where I can't lynch high priority scum like Maria. Don't lecture me on a good argument.

My cranky ass needs sleep.

And I have been insulted all game. So I really don’t care.

[Formerfish]

I mean they can but they have to go for sub optimal kills which benefits town.

So then if she is the BG is would be better for us as town to let her live and force scum to choose to kill her to take her off the board, or to kill off her to make her look worse to us tomorrow.

It seems like there is a lot of benefit to scum if mastina is town, and not much benefit to town if mastina is scum.

Like either way it looks like they are setting her up to eat rope today or tomorrow.

[Firebringer]

It really doesn’t matter if you think mastina is scum she has 5 allies. Lynch one of them. Mastina as scum has to force sub optimal scum kills to keep her ass alive.

[popsofctown]

Firebringer is it true that you're really good at reading mastina and you scumread her right now? Because I townread you so far. So that would mean it's a good idea.

Sure but she only uses that argument when it suits her

Rn I don’t care what she is. I lost my scumread on her awhile ago and just don’t care anymore

VOTE: unvote

[Krazy]

I've known mastina for ages. We're practically strategy sisters.

In this instance, yes. Mastina would not spontaneously claim bg as scum when she would solely be forced to protect town, and not scum.

Just want to make it clear that Titus, the person that knows mastina better than anyone else, argues that if she felt it would be appropriate then mastina would lie about her role.

Like, yes, you're also arguing that mastina wouldn't claim bodyguard as scum, but that's a ridiculous argument because mastina never imagines herself endgaming as scum, so she expects to be resolved before endgame but she tries to control *when* she goes down when she is scum.

You're also discounting obvious variations here like:
-it's a weird closed setup and she could just be a scum bodyguard, in which case, I disagree that she wouldn't claim her real role.
-for all we know Pine told her to claim bodyguard or it's some bullshit they cooked up in the scum PT.
-or she's just. lying. about. her. role. for *whatever* reason.

which you just accepted is an actual possibility, and goes against the *core tenet* of mastina's defense which is that she basically trust-tells with roleclaims.

[Dannflor]

gj firebringer

[Dannflor]

regardless of mastina's alignment her claim isn't truly self resolving though just because of the possibility of roleblockers and other roles tho

[Krazy]

It really doesn’t matter if you think mastina is scum she has 5 allies. Lynch one of them. Mastina as scum has to force sub optimal scum kills to keep her ass alive.

no. she doesn't.

we have zero information about the scum power structure. there's been rampant discussion of strongmen and other strong counters to her role. there's no actual reason to think that scum has to adjust their play at all in response to an outed bodyguard; in fact, since she's refusing to be publically leashed but is instead going for Ali's private leash, there's no reason to think that scum won't just kill whoever she is not privately leashed to which means that the town consensus value players will not actually be guaranteed to stay alive.

there is nothing self-resolving about mastina given this gamestate

pedit: apparently dann agrees

[Titus]

Krazy,

The arguments you present are strawmen.

Sure Pine could tell mastina to game throw. Sure that's theoretically possible. So is everyone in the game suddenly kissing my feet. Both are equally likely.

Mastina isn't scum. I will never vote mastina this game. I'd self vote first.

[Titus]

regardless of mastina's alignment her claim isn't truly self resolving though just because of the possibility of roleblockers and other roles tho

That would be stupid unbalanced here.

That's a scum sales tactic.

[Dannflor]

a roleblocker would be stupid unbalanced?

I don't know how you say that given how little we know about the setup

[Dannflor]

I 100% agree that mastina is town here

I just don't think the claim is the reason to think so

[Firebringer]

gj firebringer

Ty

[Titus]

a roleblocker would be stupid unbalanced?

I don't know how you say that given how little we know about the setup

We know masons, we know power in one shot roles. We think a vig.

If scum could roleblock the gift recipients, that mechanic has no point. If scum could roleblock smart vigs, we'd have essentially two scum kills every run of this setup.

While I don't know roles, roleblocker would be stupid.

[Dannflor]

also the reason chennis has scum equity is because we basically beetlejuice him anytime anyone hints any significant amount of pressure towards him

he's only in the thread to defend himself

and despite having an above average presence for him over the 2nd half of this game day he hasn't even laid down his vote or expressed who he'd liked lynched

the shade towards SS is NAI by itself, but it's emblematic of how he's not looking to play the game, he's looking to not get lynched and continue this disinterested play style in the hopes he'll get town read for it

he's not actually trying to play the game and help people solve his slot, and I struggle to see town motivation for that, I can think of scum motivation for that

it's scum and not town flavored survivalism

Granted, I'm not as sure of Chennis as I am of Krazy, but I'll get to that in a bit

[Dannflor]

a roleblocker would be stupid unbalanced?

I don't know how you say that given how little we know about the setup

We know masons, we know power in one shot roles. We think a vig.

If scum could roleblock the gift recipients, that mechanic has no point. If scum could roleblock smart vigs, we'd have essentially two scum kills every run of this setup.

While I don't know roles, roleblocker would be stupid.

there are multiple fruit a day tho

I'm not a setup or mechanics expert or even player so you could very well be right on this

It just seems like a silly thing to write off personally

[Dannflor]

a roleblocker would be stupid unbalanced?

I don't know how you say that given how little we know about the setup

We know masons, we know power in one shot roles. We think a vig.

If scum could roleblock the gift recipients, that mechanic has no point. If scum could roleblock smart vigs, we'd have essentially two scum kills every run of this setup.

While I don't know roles, roleblocker would be stupid.

there are multiple fruit a day tho

I'm not a setup or mechanics expert or even player so you could very well be right on this

It just seems like a silly thing to write off personally

[Titus]

also the reason chennis has scum equity is because we basically beetlejuice him anytime anyone hints any significant amount of pressure towards him

he's only in the thread to defend himself

and despite having an above average presence for him over the 2nd half of this game day he hasn't even laid down his vote or expressed who he'd liked lynched

the shade towards SS is NAI by itself, but it's emblematic of how he's not looking to play the game, he's looking to not get lynched and continue this disinterested play style in the hopes he'll get town read for it

he's not actually trying to play the game and help people solve his slot, and I struggle to see town motivation for that, I can think of scum motivation for that

it's scum and not town flavored survivalism

Granted, I'm not as sure of Chennis as I am of Krazy, but I'll get to that in a bit

+1

Gn

[Dannflor]

oopsies

gn Titus

[popsofctown]

798 is very true, probably no roleblocked


I had a similar assessment in Crown on the Ground, based on Role Call 1, roleblocked in none of them

[Dannflor]

ok maybe I should listen to my elders on this one then

[Alisae]

ok maybe I should listen to my elders on this one then

HEY
YOU MADE ME LAUGH SO MUCH THAT I ALMOST SPILLED MY ICE CREAM

[Alisae]

NOT COOL DANNFLOR

[Dannflor]

I AM SORRY

ENJOY YOUR ICE CREAM