Newbie 580 - Game Over!

[Amor]

Amor - how was my case on Muerrto opportunistic? My recollection is that I pretty much started that wagon from scratch. I admit I look pretty stupid for doing so now, but I don't see where you're getting opportunistic.

Realized I hadn't replied to this.

I thought your wagon on Muerrto was a bit opportunistic because you were attacking him for lynching BaB, when you yourself weren't in the game then and thus didn't have a previous position on BaB to stay consistent with. Because of this, you could easily say "I definitely thought BaB was town" without any consequences. I do realize that your case wasn't just for lynching BaB, but that doesn't change the fact that at that point Muerrto and I were easy targets, especially for someone that just replaced in and can claim the "right" position.

Official Vote Count

Macavenger - 1 (Harvey Pew)
Harvey Pew - 1 (Macavenger)

Not Voting - 3 (Amor, curiouskarmadog, WeyounsLastClone)

3 to Lynch

[WeyounsLastClone]

WLC, if you're still leaning toward thinking that I'm town, who do you think Harvey's partner is?

I'm really not sure. Amor is my least likely suspect. His posts come of as most genuine to me, and he really's looking for scum. I'm still quite suspicious of ckd, so he could very well be Harvey's partner; but at this point I also wouldn't be surprised if Harvey and you are actually scum together, and you're playing one hell of a gambit.

Amor, are you still rereading?

[Amor]

Alright, just finished my reread. Guess everyone is waiting on me. Here goes. (deep breath)

First off, I still don't think Weyouns is scum. His posts and actions give me a pro-town feeling, and the cases against him didn't particularly convince me. Sure he has done a few scummy things, but less than any of the other three (and possibly myself).

That leaves CKD, Mac and Harvey as potential scum. Previously I suspected a CKD/Mac pair, but the reread has reminded me of two things. The first is the whole exchange between JS (now Mac) and Boggzie (now CKD) way back when. Boggzie clearly emotionally reacted, which I don't think he would do if it was his scumbuddy bussing him. I also see that there was considerably more interaction between the two than I had previously remembered. Because of this I think CKD/Mac is probably not the scumpair. The second thing is that Harvey really didn't do much Day 2... he hopped on my bandwagon, then let his vote sit on Muerrto the whole day while occasionally posting. He actually admitted to wanting to lynch Muerrto if he was town, and the fact that he's now trying to dissolve himself of responsibility for his lynch is scummy. His play today is also frustrating because he has made no attempts to explain things and be pro-town. This could benefit scum because it doesn't provide us posts to make a rational decision on, but it's hard to really attack him for it because of LyLo analysis paralysis.

So, if WLC isn't scum and CKD/Mac isn't the pair, then that leaves Harvey/CKD and Harvey/Mac. There's one common element there. That and his scummy behavior have lead me to finally

Vote: HarveyPew

*crosses fingers*

[curiouskarmadog]

ok checking in now..see that Amor has voted.

really thought AMor was going to vote for Mac. Now, I have been mentioning all day that I was going to vote Harvey (and WLC has mentioned it too), did that affect Amor vote? Is he trying to buy town cred with this vote? Dont know... If it was a Amor/Harvey scum team, Amor could have easily voted Mac today and not look to suspicious and hoped that WLC or myself would drop the hammer...I think this is doubtful though, but not impossible.

I think I am going to hammer, Harvey.

I really think that Harvey's play was scummy yesterday..and today was even worse..

I am pretty sure he is scum

vote(hammer) Harvey

if I am right, we are moving on

if I am wrong, I dont think that it was the Amor/Mac(JS) or WLC/Mac combo play that won it for mafia, but the horrid Harvey play that screwed the town. If we lose, I contribute it (mostly) to Harvey's bad play

[curiouskarmadog]

Ok harvey, you have been hammered..anything you want to say?

[Macavenger]

Haha WLC didn't even have to come back to hammer.

^5 WLC

[Muerrto]

I'm gonna assume that means end game? Bah...WHO said Mac was scum??? Oh yeah, me hehe

Will post more later when we have confirmation.

[curiouskarmadog]

god dammit..Harvey, that was the worst damn play I have ever seen...I got to quit replacing into newbie games.

[curiouskarmadog]

should have went with my gut on WLC..of course, I had the same feeling about Amor..but I was right about BaB and Muerrto.

[Macavenger]

Harvey, that was the worst damn play I have ever seen

QFT.

I disagree that the town's loss can be entirely pinned on Harvey - WLC and I had a very good chance going into Day 3, IMO - but Harvey, you made it a

lot

easier for me. You just can't speedvote in LyLo and then start lurking as town. If anything I'm a bit surprised it took the town this long to lynch you for that.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Final Day 3 Vote Count

Macavenger - 1 (Harvey Pew)
Harvey Pew - 3 (Macavenger, Amor, curiouskarmadog)

Not Voting - 1 (WeyounsLastClone)

3 to Lynch

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

"Mac is scum and that's all I'm going to say", states Harvey.

"Fine", says Mac, throwing the noose over his head. Amor and CKD come forward to help the lynching along.

Too bad town. But there's always next time!

Harvey Pew,

Townie

, Lynched Day 3

Mac and WLC

win the game for the Scum team!!

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Role Reveal:

td (backinblack167) [col]Townie curiouskarmadog (Boggzie) [col]Townie Muerrto (Occult) [col]Townie Amor (Phael Cordivis) [col]Townie Gamma (pinkkitten90, cerebus3, preatorian) [col]Townie Harvey Pew (Radio_Interference) [col]Townie WeyounsLastClone [col]Mafia Goon Macavenger (JimSauce, Xpom Telo) [col]Mafia Roleblocker BridgesAndBaloons (ZaneWasHere) [col]Townie

Night Actions:

Night 1:

WLC kills td
RB action forfeited

Night 2:

WLC kills Gamma
Mac RBs Amor

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

This game was plagued with replacements. Day one ran for 61 days, which is just ridiculous. However, I spent about 19 of those 61 days looking for replacements, which is even more ridiculous.

Thanks to WLC for being the only original member of the game from way back on March 6th.

[Macavenger]

So Muerrto, I really want to know how you pegged me for scum there. Arguing with you Day 2 was incredibly frustrating for me, because I couldn't figure out why you thought I was scum, had nothing to argue against, and honestly didn't see my case as being particularly bad (other than the obvious that I knew you were town). I went after you and Amor because I thought there were reasonable cases there I would have made as town. To be fair, I probably would have gone after JimSauce also had I been a town role...

[Muerrto]

I knew Mac was scum. Came in way, way too confident about who was 'scum'. Never fooled me for a second. Jim Sauce on the other hand I had no clue about.

Same for WLC, never had a clue, excellent job man.

Harvey...dude...WTF?

Lesson for town(exactly what I said as I was strung up): Scum like to bring blame on those responsible for the previous day's mislynch in order to cause another mislynch. Mac's case was extremely weak and he was way too sure of it. Sadly I wasn't as convincing as he was apparently hehe

Good job man.

Thanks Vel!

[curiouskarmadog]

had a better read off JS...had feeling about him, but once Mac came in, I didnt get the read anymore.

WLC on the other hand I should have followed my gut on. But Harvey's extremely poor set up lynch yesterday, and attack today without any conversation and refusing to scum hunt, just blew me away.

[Muerrto]

Oh and I'll never forgive WLC's lurking again if he uses it when he's scum hehe

No more freebies!

[curiouskarmadog]

it wasnt just the lurking (when I said my case against him wasnt about lurking I meant it).

[Radio_Static]

Brzzzt....

...and we're back again, broadcasting on a perfect day in a sunn...

I'm going to drop the rest of my normal playstuff. Too hard to keep up when it doesnt actually matter. And yes, this is me, Radio_Interference. I hadn't logged in to my account for however long the requirment was for it to get deleted.

Sorry I never got back to you guys at the end of day one, unforunatly I managed to hit my head on some concrete and suffered a concusion, the docs kept me in the hospital for awhile. Anyway, I still kept up with the game all the way to the end here, and was going to offer to replace back in if Harvey didnt show up for long enough. Meh.

Damnit Harvey, I felt you would have been better off screwing your not posting thing and trying to fault Mac's logic as far as his argument towards who your scum partner was. God I was itching to comment on some of those points directed towards me.

I can honestly say I would have kept trying to go after CKD for a long time. Sorry CKD, I guess I'm just really not used to the online enviornment. I guess I think your posting style is funny (speak of hypocritical, eh?) oh well, its something I'll get used to with age I imagine... But I mentally switched to wanting to vote for Mac around the time Harvey did, though comments obviously would have been diffrent with diffrent players.

I had no clue about JS, nor did I have any clue about WLC.

Regardless now, since this is a newbie game I'd like a little bit of critisism from you guys about my playing, though I know I had to be replaced (again, sorry for that)

From what it sounds like my posting style and general typing style makes it hard to get a read off of me. I'd like to think the logical way I moved through what I was saying gave my posts a pro-town feel, and thats why some people were convinced I was town, but I dont actually know this for sure.

I guess the only real thing I got out of what you guys commented about me is that I need to put forth my idea's more prominently. I'll be more agressive in my next games then.

Any other comments?

Oh, and I really have to say that I enjoyed Amor's playing all the way through.

But overall, thank you to everyone for an enjoyable (for me) although definatly replacement filled game (or read, for the half I didn't play).

I definatly plan on keeping my posting style for the rest of my games. I think it adds something diffrent.

*Transmission Out*

[Muerrto]

I like the posting style. I just said it makes it easy to mask your emotions and it does. It's not exactly how you post but how people perceive it. It's kind of robotThat's not a bad thing but it may get you lynched at some point in future games because people may have trouble reading you. But again, I liked it.

Glad you're okay after your concussion. That sucks.

[Muerrto]

EBWOP: robotic*. That's

[curiouskarmadog]

I didnt have a problem with your posting style (though I know many that will, most will be scum trying to find a reason to lynch you). You could have commented more and not lurked to the point of getting replaced.

[Macavenger]

Damnit Harvey, I felt you would have been better off screwing your not posting thing and trying to fault Mac's logic as far as his argument towards who your scum partner was. God I was itching to comment on some of those points directed towards me.

Harvey shouldn't ever have quit posting to start with. That's pretty close to the worst thing he could have done there. It's a lot easier to throw red paint on a brick wall and say "Look! Scum!" than to do the same to a person who can dodge and throw paint back. I think Harvey probably could have won an argument with me that day if he'd been willing to put the effort in. For Harvey, the truth is usually your best defense as a townie. I had to make things up, you didn't.

I felt a little bit bad abusing some of the stuff you wrote to link you to WLC, but I'm sure you understand I had to do something like that to get Harvey lynched. Nothing personal.

I had no clue about JS, nor did I have any clue about WLC.

Regardless now, since this is a newbie game I'd like a little bit of critisism from you guys about my playing, though I know I had to be replaced (again, sorry for that)

Don't feel too bad about not pegging WLC or JS. The only person who came close to working it out this game was BaB, and he got lynched for it.

I thought you played pretty well overall. You seemed quite town to me even without my 20/20 scumvision. WLC told me he strongly considered offing you Night 1, which generally means you're doing something right. I'd say you could stand to be more aggressive. Being aggressive generally shouldn't get you in trouble, as long as you don't start exaggerating or lying to get your target lynched.

I don't mind your style either, and I'd say you definitely have the potential to become a good player. Hope to see you in another game eventually.

Also on the JS/WLC note: This game is sort of like a case study on why lurking is scummy and should be punished. Town totally gave JS and WLC a free ride through Day 1. I had a really good laugh over the "Is lurking scummy?" discussions when replacing into this game. Take home lessons: lurkers need to be pressured to post more, and possibly lynched if they don't.


Also Harvey, please don't get too upset by all the criticism that's being tossed your way here - these are newbie games and the point is to learn. Just remember that pointing and yelling that you caught scum isn't likely to work. Even if you know absolutely for sure - which you did here - other people aren't going to know you're town. You have to convince them.

Slightly related, I'd also appreciate any tips on improving my scum play - this is my first completed game as scum, so I'm actually feeling a little raw on this side of the game. Obviously I did good enough this time, but I'm not sure how things would have gone had Harvey actually fought back.