Normal 222: Black Versus White Mafia (Endgame)

[Vorkuta]

Godammit and I was happy that for half a second mumble was being taken seriously

[PMysterious]

In fairness, if there's a ninja, the tracker was not all that useful to us.

In this case, quite the contrary. Rick asked for the Tracker to check him to confirm his Visitor claim. If there are Ninjas in the game like Rick claimed, the fact that Rick could have visited a player could have proven his claim to be true, thus be a confirmed Town. If Mumble is a 1-Shot Bodyguard, then he should have protected Chickadee. If it costs me my own life, I'd have protected the un cc'd Tracker in a heartbeat, regardless if there were Ninjas or not. Backing up the claim of a Visitor or any other power role could be crucial to piecing together the puzzle, but now with Chickadee dead, we can't even do that, unless there is another Tracker.

[Something_Smart]

Seeing Rick visit someone wouldn't have confirmed anything, though...

[The Fonz]

Seeing Rick

not visit

, or visit a corpse, would have confirmed him scum though.

I want to hear from mumble himself before anyone else votes.

[PMysterious]

I accused him of being a Mafia Ninja, a role that doesn't confirm a visit to the Tracker. If the Tracker came back with a positive result, it would have confirmed that Rick wasn't the Ninja at least. So now, with the Tracker dead, this provides a few theories.

1. There is a Ninja that killed Chickadee mostly so we wouldn't get anymore information on Rick, since most of us were scumreading him yesterday.

2. There is a Ninja and Rick is that ninja, and if Chickadee was alive, then the result would be negative, thus forcing more suspicion.

3. There is no Ninja and it was a bluff by Rick to get us to think there are Ninjas. However, this also means that if the Mafia performs kills, then they could be found out by the Tracker, thus requiring them to kill the un CC'd Tracker.

Regardless, all of these results would have required the Tracker to be killed, the un CC'd Tracker, mind you. So, without a doubt, we must ask. If Mumble is a 1-Shot Bodyguard as he claimed, then why did he not protect Chickadee?

[Something_Smart]

Why would you claim visitor as ninja, a role that specifically cannot be seen visiting?

If Rick is scum it's likely he has a visiting role and someone ELSE on his team is a ninja. In that case they have nothing to fear from the tracker but a lot to gain if Rick gets false confirmed.

[PMysterious]

Why would you claim visitor as ninja, a role that specifically cannot be seen visiting?

If Rick is scum it's likely he has a visiting role and someone ELSE on his team is a ninja. In that case they have nothing to fear from the tracker but a lot to gain if Rick gets false confirmed.

If there is a Ninja AND Rick is Scum, then why would they kill the one person that could have made Rick look town? It doesn't make sense in that regard.

So we have a few questions that need answering.

1.

Why did Mafia kill the Tracker?

2.

If Mumble

is

1-Shot Bodyguard, then why did he not protect Chickadee?

These two questions could very well be connected, and answering them might crack this game wide open. At this point, it's worth a shot.

[Something_Smart]

Full disclosure, I advised him not to protect her, but I don't know if he listened to me.

I won't say what I advised him to do, in case he doesn't want to publicly reveal whether he still has the shot.

[Something_Smart]

We should hear roster's result before we do anything.

[The Fonz]

Why would you claim visitor as ninja, a role that specifically cannot be seen visiting?

If Rick is scum it's likely he has a visiting role and someone ELSE on his team is a ninja. In that case they have nothing to fear from the tracker but a lot to gain if Rick gets false confirmed.

If there is a Ninja AND Rick is Scum, then why would they kill the one person that could have made Rick look town? It doesn't make sense in that regard.

Not to put words in SS' mouth, but I think that's his point. All this talk of ninjas is a red herring. I'll explain once mumble posts.

[Something_Smart]

Yes, it was my point.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

We should hear roster's result before we do anything.

Roster site flaked I think.

[Mumble]

Okay, so the Tracker was nightkilled. Now for the question. Mumble, you claimed to be a 1-Shot Bodyguard alongside your other powers.

Why did you not protect Chikadee despite the claim? You only claimed to neighbor someone on Night 1, with no claim of you using your Bodyguard power. So, why didn't you use it on the un cc'd Tracker?

VOTE: Mumble

Because this isn't an open setup and an "un cc'd Tracker" doesn't mean that Chick was actually that role, and I didn't feel like taking a bullet for her.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Not sure the tracker dying makes Mumble scum. I mean could see it, he hasn’t exactly been playing a pro-town game or leaving a town of reads. He hasn’t tried to avoid being a kill target either because his play has been worth a vigilante shot. I just can’t escape the feeling that it feels a bit too easy.

It seems like you’re devaluing the individual player though by simply dismissing the VT player as worthless simply based on their role. A strong VT player playing a good game can be dangerous to scum and a great idea for a bodyguard to guard.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Also buying an investigative another night in exhange for your death is only really a plus for town assuming the result is more of a net positive than the quality of your reads.

[Mumble]

I'm not going to take a bullet for someone I don't know is town. I know my own alignment.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I think that’s a discussion to have for post game.

What I will say is that one can argue that if as town, you have an opportunity to die and flip in a game without bringing scum closer to their win condition, you should normally take it; it gives town more information (the fact that you were town), which both helps them trust your reads and reduces the chance that you get mislynched, and the only downside is that you can't give public opinions on what happens in the rest of the game.

[Almost50]

I'm not going to take a bullet for someone I don't know is town. I know my own alignment.

This is

painful

. You "not taking a bullet" for them means they do get the bullet themselves. WHO gets shot at on this game? That's right! TOWN DO. Moreover, a BODYGUARD is SUPPOSED to die for someone else. That's what a BG does. You are NOT meant to survive to endgame anyway. I call BS. Vote stays.

[PMysterious]

I'm not going to take a bullet for someone I don't know is town. I know my own alignment.

That's the point of Mafia. You DON'T know if anyone on the Town side is actually town. But considering that again, Chickadee was un-cc'd, that should be a decent indicator that she was Town.

You SHOULD have bit the bullet for Chickadee to survive the night, but you didn't. In that case,

what did you do on the previous night

?

[Mumble]

I'm not going to take a bullet for someone I don't know is town. I know my own alignment.

This is

painful

. You "not taking a bullet" for them means they do get the bullet themselves. WHO gets shot at on this game? That's right! TOWN DO. Moreover, a BODYGUARD is SUPPOSED to die for someone else. That's what a BG does. You are NOT meant to survive to endgame anyway. I call BS. Vote stays.

There is a vigilante in this game, dillweed. Also, I'm not just a bodyguard, dipstick.

[Mumble]

I'm not going to take a bullet for someone I don't know is town. I know my own alignment.

That's the point of Mafia. You DON'T know if anyone on the Town side is actually town. But considering that again, Chickadee was un-cc'd, that should be a decent indicator that she was Town.

You SHOULD have bit the bullet for Chickadee to survive the night, but you didn't. In that case,

what did you do on the previous night

?

It not a fucking open game or even semi-open. There is nothing to CC. Fuck off.

I commuted.

[Something_Smart]

Points awarded for the creative insults.

Points promptly subtracted for thinking a vig would ever shoot Chickadee.

[Almost50]

There is a vigilante in this game, dillweed. Also, I'm not just a bodyguard, dipstick.

Why would a Vig target a claimed unCC'd Tracker, MF? And I KNOW what you claimed, SoB.

[Something_Smart]

Okay that's enough.

[Mumble]

It's not like a vigilante in a recent game shot a claimed Backup Gunsmith or anything, derphead.