Mafia 81: SSW II - Game over!

[SpyreX]

At this point, I'm fairly certain based on play alone that flay is town. His tracking result actually proves very little since the mafia doesn't seem to have killed last night. It does however prove that flay can't be a mafia roleblocker, because tracking would have seen him roleblock somebody.

Exactly - and me not being shot, since I know my role, would mean BM was roleblocked if he was town and, of course, that means either flay or farside and of the two it would have been flay more likely of the two. So, either I'm a roleblocker (which I'm not) or farside is a godfather roleblocker (which I doubt) or... BM is the mafia.

Kind of a meta-question, but our mod has been good with flavor. BM said he shot, but never got any roleblock flavor as far as I can tell. Not that it would have helped (since town wouldn't have had a roleblocker to compare flavor againt) but it would have been something.

First real vote count of the Day

(6 players alive = 4 to lynch before deadline)

(2) BM (Spyrex, OhGodMyLife)
(1) SpyreX (farside22)

Not voting:

Jenter Brolincani, Mr. Flay, SpyreX

Deadline:

Tuesday 24 June 2:00 AM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[Battle Mage]

1.) Yes, I think its 209 / 210. Its not "confirming" but its more clear - OGML would have had to have a series of lucky events AND bussed his partner.

ROFL. You ARE kidding me right?
In 210, all OGML does is refrain from actually claiming a result. I suggest EVERYONE

READS

post 210 again, and see what OGML

ACTUALLY

says. If anything, his non-committal way of claiming a result is another strong point against him. It surprises me that you didnt see this...

In essence, you are defending his claim on grounds that he counter-claimed a Tracker. The guy died and came up Tracker. Somehow OGML is not dead. WTF?

I'm at a loss, i really am... 0.o

2.) Dont misconstrue what I said. If there is a roleblocker, it would make sense for it to be me. However, it still could be you if you have pretty much ANY mafia role and lied about your role.

Right, so i roleblocked myself? Try to use a bit of intelligence please. Which ever way you look at it, there isnt much of a case for me being Mafia RB.

If I end up being hung, I really want OGML to track you. The way that post came out like I was setting you up for a fail (I wasn't, it could have been you or jent IF a scenario like this played out).

It, to me, is really going to be either me or BM and I, of course, know its not me.

That sounds fine. I still wish we'd done that yesterday.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Four to lynch so I'll hold off voting, but

FOS: Battle Mage

- how convenient that when no one else seems to have been blocked all game (someone correct me if I'm wrong), your night action comes up missing when it would confirm you?
I'm insanely busy today so no posting for the next 12h or so, but I'll probably vote BM on Monday unless someone pokes a hole in the current theory.

Thanks for the partial clear, OGML. I think we have just one scum left at this point.

Right, so, what? I claimed a Vig ability with no intention of using it? -.-
And what's more, claimed 2 other confirmable abilities? (doc isnt really confirmable). I've already pointed out another possibility-and perhaps one that is more likely at this point- Spyrex is NK immune scum. It fits right in with his intense desire to see me take a pop at him as opposed to anyone else-something that is utterly inconsistent with any protown role.

This is so obvious. If you cant see it, shame on you...

Vote: Spyrex

BM

[SpyreX]

In 210, all OGML does is refrain from actually claiming a result. I suggest EVERYONE READS post 210 again, and see what OGML ACTUALLY says. If anything, his non-committal way of claiming a result is another strong point against him. It surprises me that you didnt see this...

209:

I am a Tracker. Last night I got a result. I tracked a player to farside22.

210:

Sorry, wrong.
I'm the tracker. That makes you a scum and me awesome.
I tracked farside last night and she didn't go nowhere.

So, AGAIN, 209 Rogue says he tracked someone to farside.
210 OGML says Rogue is lying because he tracked farside and farside didn't go anywhere.

If OGML is mafia, he assumed he was the one tracked AND that farside did not have a role where he went anywhere (which, in this setup, is actually not THAT likely). OGML didn't, of course, think there would be two trackers. However, I think we have two trackers and had two berserks. Its your JOAT on TOP of them, combined with the events of yesterday, that I dont buy.

Right, so i roleblocked myself? Try to use a bit of intelligence please. Which ever way you look at it, there isnt much of a case for me being Mafia RB.

God, you're going to tell me to use intelligence and not read my post you even quoted? I said:
1.) If there IS a roleblocker, it would make sense for it to be me.
2.) BM, however, could still be pretty much ANY mafia role and nokilled last night.

I dont think you're a roleblocker, I think you're probably vanilla mafia. BUT, your role doesn't matter. Its alignment.

And what's more, claimed 2 other confirmable abilities? (doc isnt really confirmable). I've already pointed out another possibility-and perhaps one that is more likely at this point- Spyrex is NK immune scum. It fits right in with his intense desire to see me take a pop at him as opposed to anyone else-something that is utterly inconsistent with any protown role.

You really didn't see my plan yesterday? At all. Or you're actively misconstruing it.

I didn't care WHO shot who. I was, in essence, eliminating every vanilla role (grimmy by hanging, me and muffin by shooting, flay by tracking) BECAUSE I believed one of you claimed powerroles was lying. I still do. The only reason I suggested YOU to shoot me is because you wanted to all of yesterday anyways.

If I am wrong about you I hang tomorrow. Thats fine. Why is it that YOU are being so defensive about it all.

If I was mafia, I would have put myself in a position where there is no way I could actually win it. You think that I would have a chance at lylo after setting up a plan where I should have died but I didn't and yet I am still claiming vanilla especially when I could have just as easily kept my mouth shut.

So, still, I say once again: one of BM and I is highly likely to be mafia. We WILL be hung in succession. However, I know I am not and am only asking the town to believe me enough to hang you FIRST and if I am wrong then I go tomorrow.

Unless you think I've got some clever ruse to get out of that

[Battle Mage]

In 210, all OGML does is refrain from actually claiming a result. I suggest EVERYONE READS post 210 again, and see what OGML ACTUALLY says. If anything, his non-committal way of claiming a result is another strong point against him. It surprises me that you didnt see this...

209:

I am a Tracker. Last night I got a result. I tracked a player to farside22.

210:

Sorry, wrong.
I'm the tracker. That makes you a scum and me awesome.
I tracked farside last night and she didn't go nowhere.

So, AGAIN, 209 Rogue says he tracked someone to farside.
210 OGML says Rogue is lying because he tracked farside and farside didn't go anywhere.

*sigh*
I dont think you are really thinking about this logically. Perhaps its just that, from your viewpoint, double-negatives don't exist. But, speaking personally, when i read what OGML ACTUALLY SAID, my first thought was that he was saying that he had seen Farside go somewhere, and didnt want to claim where.

The fact is, OGML claimed in such a way that he could not possibly be wrong. That you can't see that is really staggering... 0.o

And what's more, claimed 2 other confirmable abilities? (doc isnt really confirmable). I've already pointed out another possibility-and perhaps one that is more likely at this point- Spyrex is NK immune scum. It fits right in with his intense desire to see me take a pop at him as opposed to anyone else-something that is utterly inconsistent with any protown role.

You really didn't see my plan yesterday? At all. Or you're actively misconstruing it.

I didn't care WHO shot who. I was, in essence, eliminating every vanilla role (grimmy by hanging, me and muffin by shooting, flay by tracking) BECAUSE I believed one of you claimed powerroles was lying. I still do. The only reason I suggested YOU to shoot me is because you wanted to all of yesterday anyways.

And yet you encouraged Jenter to shoot MuffinHead, who he had shown no real emnity towards. Why?

If I am wrong about you I hang tomorrow. Thats fine. Why is it that YOU are being so defensive about it all.

Maybe because, the more i think about it, the more i realise that there is no real case for me being scum.

If I was mafia, I would have put myself in a position where there is no way I could actually win it. You think that I would have a chance at lylo after setting up a plan where I should have died but I didn't and yet I am still claiming vanilla especially when I could have just as easily kept my mouth shut.

What? You mean you wish you hadnt claimed vanilla? What would you have claimed if you could go back and try again? How would 'keeping your mouth shut' help in a mass claim?

So, still, I say once again: one of BM and I is highly likely to be mafia. We WILL be hung in succession. However, I know I am not and am only asking the town to believe me enough to hang you FIRST and if I am wrong then I go tomorrow.

I dont see why you are that worried about being hung last, if you genuinely believe i am the last scumbag? I, on the other hand, think there is a strong case for OGML to be scum- and not necessarily with you either.

BM

[SpyreX]

*sigh*
I dont think you are really thinking about this logically. Perhaps its just that, from your viewpoint, double-negatives don't exist. But, speaking personally, when i read what OGML ACTUALLY SAID, my first thought was that he was saying that he had seen Farside go somewhere, and didnt want to claim where.

The fact is, OGML claimed in such a way that he could not possibly be wrong. That you can't see that is really staggering... 0.o

We're looking at two different parts of it. I've heard lots of people say didn't go nowhere, actually. But, yes, that is a valid concern.

However, as far as I can tell you're saying this is the scenario that played out that makes OGML scum:

1.) Day 1, very early on, he busses his recruiter scumbuddy out of the gate, resulting in a lynch.
2.) Day 2, in response to Rogue (who REALLY looked like scum) claiming he tracked someone to farside he counterclaims tracker and uses ambiguous language to make it readable either way.

Now, my problems with this scenario: (ohh WIFOM, how awesome you are)

1.) I still can not see how bussing, that early and that actively, your recruiter in this game is a good idea. Even with 2 mafia (which is what I believe), and now knowing the role structure they had, all the mafia had to do really was lay low for 2-3 days and they would have won, hands down. Hell, I think there is a scenario where they could have won night 2 (I'd have to play it out, but I think its possible).

2.) No role-discussion had happened that day 2 yet. Rogue did feel scummy from day 1. WHY would you cc tracker when there are so many other roles you could use to say why you were tracked to farside ASSUMING that you were the one tracked. Instead, I see that whole thing as OGML instantly calling bullshit because he believed Rogue was fake claiming tracker.

So, to me, OGML telling the truth makes a lot more sense than him being both a bad mafia on day 1 and a lucky / poor decision making mafia on day 2. I've said, since then, if he's scum my jaw would drop and I still believe that.

And yet you encouraged Jenter to shoot MuffinHead, who he had shown no real emnity towards. Why?

Hmm, maybe because you said more than once you wanted to shoot me?

Grimmy, of us totally unconfirmed vanillas, looked the most scummy. He made the most sense for the lynch canidate (since, of the vanillas, he had the highest chance in my mind to be scum).

Aside from that, there was two totally unconfirmed vanillas - me and muffin. There was two claimed vigs - you and Jenter. You said you thought I was scum, so I was letting you shoot me. Jenter, at that point, had the other.

Also, if there was gaping holes in this idea, is the whole town scummy? I think most people thought it was a good one because it WAS a good one - even this scenario should result in a town win.

What? You mean you wish you hadnt claimed vanilla? What would you have claimed if you could go back and try again? How would 'keeping your mouth shut' help in a mass claim?

This plan was MY idea. I thought it had the best chance of clearing the most people. Why would I have brought it up if I was scum? Why not just let the town do whatever (as long as it wasn't getting ME killed). No, instead I made a plan that should have killed me and if it didn't would have put me in the spotlight some. Thats not really smart if I'm scum.

I dont see why you are that worried about being hung last, if you genuinely believe i am the last scumbag? I, on the other hand, think there is a strong case for OGML to be scum- and not necessarily with you either.

You're right. Honestly, as long as the town hangs you, I dont care if its me first. If the town decides to vote my way I'll hammer myself - as long as you realize that you will be tomorrow. Just like how if I'm wrong with you.

Maybe because, the more i think about it, the more i realise that there is no real case for me being scum.

No case?

1.) The only scenario(s) in which you are not scum are I am a immune NK scum OR I or OGML roleblocked you.
2.) We've already got a pair of vigilantes. You're claiming a 3rd vigilante role (even if 1 shot) in a small game that had a mafia recruiter.
3.) OGML, your major suspect, is built on -so far- one piece of evidence that is very fragile at best.
4.) Yesterday, from a look, it really seems as though you were the only one really against this plan and NEVER made solid reasons for it.
5.) You wanted to track and not kill OGML even though you're so sure he's scum - because, of course, if you had killed him it wouldn't have been a vig kill AND it would have been the only mafia kill. Tracking isn't hard to do, especially when the town lays out what every power role is doing.
6.) Personally, you posting first saying "where's my kill" and then telling the mod to be sure to check his PM's also bothers me (this is 5 because it matters the least).


So, really, if the town wants they sure can hang me first. When I come up vanilla, I sure hope to God they dont even listen to the backpedaling that will have to happen.

BM isn't a roleblocker, but he sure is scum. What type doesn't matter one bit because ANY type would have been able to do exactly what happened last night.

[Battle Mage]

*sigh*
I dont think you are really thinking about this logically. Perhaps its just that, from your viewpoint, double-negatives don't exist. But, speaking personally, when i read what OGML ACTUALLY SAID, my first thought was that he was saying that he had seen Farside go somewhere, and didnt want to claim where.

The fact is, OGML claimed in such a way that he could not possibly be wrong. That you can't see that is really staggering... 0.o

We're looking at two different parts of it. I've heard lots of people say didn't go nowhere, actually. But, yes, that is a valid concern.

However, as far as I can tell you're saying this is the scenario that played out that makes OGML scum:

1.) Day 1, very early on, he busses his recruiter scumbuddy out of the gate, resulting in a lynch.
2.) Day 2, in response to Rogue (who REALLY looked like scum) claiming he tracked someone to farside he counterclaims tracker and uses ambiguous language to make it readable either way.

Now, my problems with this scenario: (ohh WIFOM, how awesome you are)

1.) I still can not see how bussing, that early and that actively, your recruiter in this game is a good idea. Even with 2 mafia (which is what I believe), and now knowing the role structure they had, all the mafia had to do really was lay low for 2-3 days and they would have won, hands down. Hell, I think there is a scenario where they could have won night 2 (I'd have to play it out, but I think its possible).

I believe we've already discussed this, but hell- its nearly the end of the day, so lets go over it again!

What you are failing to take into account is that we arent talking about ANY old buddy here. We are talking about Xyzzy- who, when OGML showed up, was tying himself up in knots, and attracting alot of attention. Now, look at it from OGML-scum's perspective. What is the optimum play if, in the random voting stage, your mafia leader (in this case, recruiter) is making an ass of himself, and could quite possibly be lynched on Day 1?
Answer: bus immediately. At the very least, you want to be seen as being part of the wagon, in case he gets quicklynched. Actively pushing hard is optional at that stage, and sure enough, OGML first joins the wagon fairly quietly. But, when it becomes clear that Xyzzy isnt going to make it, OGML pushes alot harder. It's textbook stuff really, and you certainly can't fault him on it. It's not like he had a choice about bussing his buddy.

2.) No role-discussion had happened that day 2 yet. Rogue did feel scummy from day 1. WHY would you cc tracker when there are so many other roles you could use to say why you were tracked to farside ASSUMING that you were the one tracked. Instead, I see that whole thing as OGML instantly calling bullshit because he believed Rogue was fake claiming tracker.

Actually, claiming Tracker isnt that surprising in such a scenario. He had been caught with his hand in the till, and he panicked. There are of course, other roles he could have claimed, but claiming Tracker was clearly as effective as anything. Certainly, OGML was believed, and he outlived the actual Tracker. What i dont understand is why the hell he wasnt killed after that... Heck, i bet he doesnt know that either!

So, to me, OGML telling the truth makes a lot more sense than him being both a bad mafia on day 1 and a lucky / poor decision making mafia on day 2. I've said, since then, if he's scum my jaw would drop and I still believe that.

Dude, theres absolutely nothing bad about his play day 1. He did what anyone in his unfortunate position would have done. It's totally understandable. What it is NOT, is inherently protown. In fact, i cant really explain his behaviour concerning Xyzzy if he was town.

And yet you encouraged Jenter to shoot MuffinHead, who he had shown no real emnity towards. Why?

Hmm, maybe because you said more than once you wanted to shoot me?

Thats nice, but doesnt really make sense. In any other game, you'd be laughed out of the thread for offering yourself up for lynch, on grounds that, it is what the Vig wanted. Simply put, if you are going to direct the Vigs, id expect reasoning a little more substantial than 'well you found him scummy, so you kill him, and you don't get on with him, so you can kill him'...

You said you thought I was scum, so

I was letting you shoot me

.

BUT WHY!? o.O
Why would you do that as town?? I just don't get it!
I cant see any real logic for such a request- other than the ulterior motive of setting me up for a fall (since Jenter was already more confirmed than me, and far less likely to be lynched).

Also, if there was gaping holes in this idea, is the whole town scummy? I think most people thought it was a good one because it WAS a good one - even this scenario should result in a town win.

Lol, im not arguing over whether the plan was a good one. Im questionning your motives for creating it as you did.

What? You mean you wish you hadnt claimed vanilla? What would you have claimed if you could go back and try again? How would 'keeping your mouth shut' help in a mass claim?

This plan was MY idea. I thought it had the best chance of clearing the most people. Why would I have brought it up if I was scum? Why not just let the town do whatever (as long as it wasn't getting ME killed). No, instead I made a plan that should have killed me and if it didn't would have put me in the spotlight some. Thats not really smart if I'm scum.

Except of course, for 2 things, which have already been brought up:

1. You are Mafia RB.
2. You are NK Immune Mafia.

In both of these scenarios, your motive is obvious. By setting up the plan the way you did, you ensured that you would get the easiest mislynch possible against a power roles claimant. It was your only shot at winning, after claiming vanilla. It's VERY smart if you are scum.

I dont see why you are that worried about being hung last, if you genuinely believe i am the last scumbag? I, on the other hand, think there is a strong case for OGML to be scum- and not necessarily with you either.

You're right. Honestly, as long as the town hangs you, I dont care if its me first. If the town decides to vote my way I'll hammer myself - as long as you realize that you will be tomorrow. Just like how if I'm wrong with you.

Frankly, i'll be very surprised if i survive today. The way the game has turned out, i OUGHT to be lynched on the grounds that i did fail to deliver. The thing is, when i give it some thought, i feel that me being lynched is infuriatingly stupid. I mean, COME ON! Why would i fakeclaim VIG, if i wasnt intending to kill someone at some point? Surely i couldve just orchestrated the claim with roles i could deliver on- instead of ones which would eventually confirm me one way or the other?
It just doesnt fit...

My thought atm, is that we could have 2 scum left. I think we can be sure beyond reasonable doubt that you are one. But im CONVINCED OGML is scum aswell. So, my plan is, we lynch you today. If you come up scum but the game goes on, we lynch OGML tomorrow. If you come up town, i'll hopefully be able to confirm myself tonight, and we can lynch the final scumbag tomorrow.

Maybe because, the more i think about it, the more i realise that there is no real case for me being scum.

No case?

1.) The only scenario(s) in which you are not scum are I am a immune NK scum OR I or OGML roleblocked you.

yup. Not especially hard to believe in a game with a mafia Recruiter, 2 1 shot Vigs, and a JoaT.

2.) We've already got a pair of vigilantes. You're claiming a 3rd vigilante role (even if 1 shot) in a small game that had a mafia recruiter.

How does the presence of a mafia recruiter (a powerful anti-town role) suggest the lack of protown power roles?

3.) OGML, your major suspect, is built on -so far- one piece of evidence that is very fragile at best.

GG reading comprehension. I hate bs...

4.) Yesterday, from a look, it really seems as though you were the only one really against this plan and NEVER made solid reasons for it.

I was against the death of MuffinHead. Who was, surprise surprise, town. I'm sorry, i must've missed the newsflash where getting townies killed was a massive town tell.

5.) You wanted to track and not kill OGML even though you're so sure he's scum - because, of course, if you had killed him it wouldn't have been a vig kill AND it would have been the only mafia kill. Tracking isn't hard to do, especially when the town lays out what every power role is doing.

Actually, thats wrong too. I was quite happy to kill OGML, but i thought Tracking would confirm me. Had i tracked last night, we'd know if there was a mafia RB or not, and i wouldnt be up for lynch today. Maybe if you thought laying out what power roles should be doing is so unhelpful, you shouldnt have tried to do it? Hypocrite.

6.) Personally, you posting first saying "where's my kill" and then telling the mod to be sure to check his PM's also bothers me (this is 5 because it matters the least).

Wait...why?

So, really, if the town wants they sure can hang me first. When I come up vanilla, I sure hope to God they dont even listen to the backpedaling that will have to happen.

BM isn't a roleblocker, but he sure is scum. What type doesn't matter one bit because ANY type would have been able to do exactly what happened last night.

*sigh* Except they wouldnt, because if i was scum, I WOULDNT HAVE CLAIMED A PROVABLE ROLE.
You are claiming vanilla. You should die today, and OGML and I can try to disconfirm each other tonight.

Confirm Vote: Spyrex

BM

[Mr. Flay]

You said you thought I was scum, so

I was letting you shoot me

.

BUT WHY!? o.O
Why would you do that as town?? I just don't get it!

Jesus, BM, try to keep up.

As a (reputed) townie, part of the power that SpyreX has is to be cannon-fodder. If his death at your hands lends vig-flavor, then you're cleared and we still maintain a positive balance. If he dies and it shows silver, you're dead meat. What better effect could a Townie have at night?

It's not like he was asking to be lynched or anything. With as many power roles as we (apparently) have in this game, townies still serve a purpose.

Honestly, as long as the town hangs you, I dont care if its me first. If the town decides to vote my way I'll hammer myself - as long as you realize that you will be tomorrow. Just like how if I'm wrong with you.

Or, you know, not...

Can you explain to me why you're so hell-bent on being dead with BM, even though you seem to believe it will result in a lose (post 573)? Maybe I'm stupid on a Monday, but that's only true IF we have two scum left AND no saves occur at night, right?

[SpyreX]

Can you explain to me why you're so hell-bent on being dead with BM, even though you seem to believe it will result in a lose (post 573)? Maybe I'm stupid on a Monday, but that's only true IF we have two scum left AND no saves occur at night, right?

If I am wrong about BM, especially with the way this all went down, barring some kind of magic, I can not see the town not lynching me next. Hell, I'd do it.

I dont think we have the ability, assuming everyone is telling the truth, for there TO be any saves left - so, tomorrow we'll be at 4 if I am wrong and I would be the optimum lynch target.

So, yes, I'm so sure that BM is scum that I have put myself in a position where if I am wrong I think the town will lose because there's no reason whatsoever to not hang me. Hell, how could I really defend my thought process and the events of today without Bm or I being scum?

So, maybe its a martyr thing - all I'm saying is that I am so sure of:
1.) There being only 1 mafia left and
2.) It being BM
That if I have to die for it thats fine. I'll still win, but I really wanted to be alive during the celebration.

[Mr. Flay]

Uhhh... if you die for it, knowing you're a townie, and knowing that will cause us to lose, it's a Pyrrhic

victory

loss. That's dumb, and not helpful.

I need a sanity check.

Original Roll String: 1d20-3

1 20-Sided Dice: (17)-3 = 14

Since BM has one more activity left if he's telling the truth, is it worth putting SpyreX's bluff to the test

today

and lynching BM tomorrow, assuming he doesn't get cleared/offed by some night action? I feel like this game should be highly reductionist at this point, but my brain isn't wrapping around it.

Left Alive:

• OGML - Tracker, largely cleared by counterclaim/clearing of the other Tracker, and the xyzzy lynch.
  
• Flay - Townie, not a Human RB according to OGML.
  
• BM - Jack-of-All-Trades, may have his kill left, certainly has his...tracking left? Question of why his kill didn't go through is the $10,000 prize for today.
  
• SpyreX - Townie, should have died last night but didn't. Possible RB?
  
• farside22 - Townie, cleared by OGML's lack of result N1 and MME's investigation.
  
• Jenter - now-confirmed Berserker with used-up power. REALLY outside chance that he's a Traitor 1-shot Vig 1-shot Bulletproof , but that seems unfair in a Normal Game.

Unless I'm wrong about Jenter, I don't see how it can be anyone BUT SpyreX or Battle Mage.

[Mr. Flay]

Shit.

Only about 12 hours until deadline...

Vote: Spyrex

, but I'll be back before deadline to see if anyone's poked any holes in my theory.

[farside22]

First real vote count of the Day

(6 players alive = 4 to lynch before deadline)

(2) BM (Spyrex, OhGodMyLife)
(1) SpyreX (farside22)

Not voting:

Jenter Brolincani, Mr. Flay, SpyreX

Deadline:

Tuesday 24 June 2:00 AM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[/quote]

SpreX gets two vote? Can I have two votes?

Okay that silliness is over. I think there is 2 scum. No one can tell me differently. Either SpreX or Flay or BM and Flay. Those are my thoughts. Looking at the fact that both BM and Flay are voting SpreX and with 12 hours left and Jenter not in sight. I feel a bit safer voting BM with OGML then Flay's vote

unvote:
vote: BM

[Phoebus]

12 hours to deadline vote count of the Day

(6 players alive = 4 to lynch before deadline)

(3) BM (Spyrex, OhGodMyLife, farside22)
(2) SpyreX (Mr. Flay, BM)

Not voting:

Jenter Brolincani

Deadline:

Tuesday 24 June 2:00 AM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

This is roughly 11hours 50 minutes from now.

[SpyreX]

Unless I'm wrong about Jenter, I don't see how it can be anyone BUT SpyreX or Battle Mage.

Maybe I'm just wording everything I'm saying wrong. THIS statement is why if BM dies and is town I expect to die tomorrow. It makes the most sense it is one of us.

However, if it IS some other scenario, my push on BM will result in both BM and I dying which, of course, makes the town lose.

Flay, I thought about suggesting letting BM use his night action again but (since I think he IS the scum) my money would be on him faking a tracking report (which would be easy enough since all the roles are known) or claiming roleblocked...again.

Really, there isn't a way now for BM to clear himself. At best, he'd make it a 50-50 shot tomorrow if I died today.

Having no protective roles left also makes it more difficult. Otherwise, I could use OGML to clear me (or, if the scum gambit'd create a no-lose situation for the town tomorrow). However, as it sits, BM and I can not really be cleared.

Okay that silliness is over. I think there is 2 scum. No one can tell me differently. Either SpreX or Flay or BM and Flay. Those are my thoughts. Looking at the fact that both BM and Flay are voting SpreX and with 12 hours left and Jenter not in sight. I feel a bit safer voting BM with OGML then Flay's vote

Farside, I really, really do not think there are 2 mafia left. If you want, I can detail out the multiple scenarios where if we started with 3 mafia (and one was a recruiter) where the town was flat out boned (day 2 win if coordinated right, easily).

I'd like to see what Jenter has to say about everything.

[OhGodMyLife]

I'm getting this really uneasy feeling about BM and Flay...

I'm glad they can't lynch SpyreX by themselves. If BM is lynched scum and the game is not over, I believe Flay has to be the last scum. The fact that he didn't target anyone last night only really clears him of being a roleblocker, not of being mafia altogether, since the mafia did not kill last night.

He did have forewarning that I would be tracking him, after all.

[OhGodMyLife]

The other, much less likely scenario for me at this point if there are two scum left is farside/spyrex, where farside has to be a godfather.

Like I said, much less likely.

[Battle Mage]

Can you explain to me why you're so hell-bent on being dead with BM, even though you seem to believe it will result in a lose (post 573)? Maybe I'm stupid on a Monday, but that's only true IF we have two scum left AND no saves occur at night, right?

If I am wrong about BM, especially with the way this all went down, barring some kind of magic, I can not see the town not lynching me next. Hell, I'd do it.

I've heard that before! Farside knows what i'm talking about.

I dont think we have the ability, assuming everyone is telling the truth, for there TO be any saves left - so, tomorrow we'll be at 4 if I am wrong and I would be the optimum lynch target.

So, yes, I'm so sure that BM is scum that I have put myself in a position where if I am wrong I think the town will lose because there's no reason whatsoever to not hang me. Hell, how could I really defend my thought process and the events of today without Bm or I being scum?

So, maybe its a martyr thing - all I'm saying is that I am so sure of:
1.) There being only 1 mafia left and
2.) It being BM
That if I have to die for it thats fine. I'll still win, but I really wanted to be alive during the celebration.

Even though, if you were town and died today, i'd be able to confirm myself and OGML would be lynched to clinch the game for us. I really cant see why, as town, you would want to risk the victory, rather than guarantee it by sacrificing yourself. You were willing to do it yesterday. Oh sorry, i forgot. You only like putting your life on the line when you know you cannot be killed!

BM

[Battle Mage]

You said you thought I was scum, so

I was letting you shoot me

.

BUT WHY!? o.O
Why would you do that as town?? I just don't get it!

Jesus, BM, try to keep up.

As a (reputed) townie, part of the power that SpyreX has is to be cannon-fodder. If his death at your hands lends vig-flavor, then you're cleared and we still maintain a positive balance. If he dies and it shows silver, you're dead meat. What better effect could a Townie have at night?

It's not like he was asking to be lynched or anything. With as many power roles as we (apparently) have in this game, townies still serve a purpose.

Thats not what i'm getting at. My point is, why would he want ME IN PARTICULAR to kill him? To which, the answer seems pretty obvious from where i'm sat.

BM

[Battle Mage]

First real vote count of the Day

(6 players alive = 4 to lynch before deadline)

(2) BM (Spyrex, OhGodMyLife)
(1) SpyreX (farside22)

Not voting:

Jenter Brolincani, Mr. Flay, SpyreX

Deadline:

Tuesday 24 June 2:00 AM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

SpreX gets two vote? Can I have two votes?

Okay that silliness is over. I think there is 2 scum. No one can tell me differently. Either SpreX or Flay or BM and Flay. Those are my thoughts. Looking at the fact that both BM and Flay are voting SpreX and with 12 hours left and Jenter not in sight. I feel a bit safer voting BM with OGML then Flay's vote

unvote:
vote: BM

Umm, Farside, did you replace in and fail to read the game?
Because, Mr Flay is for all intents and purposes confirmed via his vote placing at the end of Day 1. I think we can be 99% sure he is town.
Otherwise, how do you explain the missing NK?
Do you not find it equally suspicious that the two people voting for me are the two people i am attacking as the two suspects remaining. Why don't those 2 come into your analysis of potential scumpairs?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Flay, I thought about suggesting letting BM use his night action again but (since I think he IS the scum) my money would be on him faking a tracking report (which would be easy enough since all the roles are known) or claiming roleblocked...again.

Really, there isn't a way now for BM to clear himself. At best, he'd make it a 50-50 shot tomorrow if I died today.

Who's fault is that?

Jesus. This is the second time i've been lynched with this role. Best protown power, and i dont even get to soak up a nightkill. I don't even know where the Mod is, or why he isn't responding to me.

Having no protective roles left also makes it more difficult. Otherwise, I could use OGML to clear me (or, if the scum gambit'd create a no-lose situation for the town tomorrow). However, as it sits, BM and I can not really be cleared.

Lets put it like this. Assuming you die today, and we have an NK tonight. That leaves myself and 3 other players. 1 of whom is a claimed Tracker himself. OGML can track me, and i can track whoever. If his claim is true, he will see me track whomever i do, and NOT kill them. Do the math.

BM

[farside22]

@BM: Either SpryX is a RB or you didn't do the kill based on flavor text.
You are targeting OGML who was the prime reason zz was lynched so you logic on Flay fails me. The fact you are protecting Flay and I believe OGML more since he is confirmed is all I need.
Can we

Prod Jenter

[Battle Mage]

I'm getting this really uneasy feeling about BM and Flay...

I'm glad they can't lynch SpyreX by themselves. If BM is lynched scum and the game is not over, I believe Flay has to be the last scum. The fact that he didn't target anyone last night only really clears him of being a roleblocker, not of being mafia altogether, since the mafia did not kill last night.

He did have forewarning that I would be tracking him, after all.

Again, are you intentionally ignoring what went on Day 1? Why do you claim that you are confirmed innocent by your stance towards Xyzzy, when you are quite willing to attack those who shared that stance with you, and indeed, time-wise, are far more confirmed than you are?

This is so obvious, it's untrue. It's really upto Jenter and Farside now.

BM

[SpyreX]

Lets put it like this. Assuming you die today, and we have an NK tonight. That leaves myself and 3 other players. 1 of whom is a claimed Tracker himself. OGML can track me, and i can track whoever. If his claim is true, he will see me track whomever i do, and NOT kill them. Do the math.

All thats going to do is create another gambit:

If you are scum and there IS a nightkill:

OGML: I tracked you to the dead person
You: Nope, I tracked (not dead person)

Its either of you.

If you are scum and there is NOT a nightkill:
OGML: I tracked you and you did nothing.
You: Nope, I tracked (anyone).

Its either of you lying again.

Or...and this is what I'd bet. We move forward and... OGML is the night kill.

None of that would confirm you. We do not have a doctor to protect OG and you could very easily lie. So, no matter how it goes, I'm not seeing how you could be cleared (any more than I could).

I'm also not getting how flay is cleared but og isn't for day 1 in your mind. Both were cleared for the same set of reasons.

OG - I still really doubt there is 3 mafia. I -guess- farside could be godfather but I dont see it as likely. My analysis of this game as well as my gut points to 1 recruiter + 1 vanilla mafia for balance and us getting the recruiter was about the most amazing thing we could have done. 1 recruiter and 1 godfather could be, but doesn't seem near as likely with how useful the recruiter is in a small game like this.

[Battle Mage]

@BM: Either SpryX is a RB or you didn't do the kill based on flavor text.

Or Spyrex is UnNKable.

You are targeting OGML who was the prime reason zz was lynched so you logic on Flay fails me. The fact you are protecting Flay and I believe OGML more since he is confirmed is all I need.
Can we

Prod Jenter

Look at the timings of the votes. Flay voted towards the end of the wagon, and hence, would not have missed the kill, except as a gambit. OGML on the other hand, could easily have been caught off guard.
Please, dont do what you usually do, and cast a half-baked vote that didnt have alot of thought. I actually expect you to LEARN from all the times you get me killed and you're wrong. Where's the meta analysis?? Christ, where's the thread reading?!

Dont do this to me again... -.-

BM

[OhGodMyLife]

I also doubt that there are three mafia. I think that when we lynch BM, the game will be over. But if he is lynched as scum and the game

isn't

over, then the only option is flay. If it were farside/BM, she'd just be lynching you with him and flay for the win.

BM, you can no longer adequately prove your role.

Your claimed roleblock is unprovable.
Your claimed doc protect is unprovable.
Your claimed vig attempt didn't happen.

And like was just said, if we go to night with you alive and depending on my results to confirm you, you can bet I'll be dead in the morning and you'll be in the same place you are right now.