Mini 579 - The Plagues of Egypt Mafia - Over

[strife220]

Hrm... SM said she'd check in to either hammer Musher or make up her opinion on someone else by now. Without the support of everyone not on the Musher wagon, discussing an alternative lynch is useless.

SpringLullaby, when are you going V/LA? Before deadline, correct?

[springlullaby]

This is my last post before I go tomorrow.

I'm not hammering Musher, my Hackerhuck vote is sticking.

[SeraphicMirth]

Sorry, I only had like 5 minutes to get online yesterday and I needed to e-mail with one of my professors in that time. I'm currently doing re-reads (have been for about an hour >.< this is hard, methinks the scum are good this game). Will post soon.

[SeraphicMirth]

Sorry, I only had like 5 minutes to get online yesterday and I needed to e-mail with one of my professors in that time.

Anyway, I keep re-reading musher and I'm still torn. His play comes off as scummy but it could just be really bad town, and the more I read carefully, the more it seems that way. This post is the one that makes me hesitate the most:

Just something i have found, the main person who is trying to lynch me forgot one thing that he could have asked me about my role which would (practically) prove my innocence, i think only town get this info as they normally have more information so i am guessing since that never came up it could be because he never knew of it, lets see Stoofer, can you think of what that question is? (Noone else answer i wanna see him struggle)

If he were scum, he wouldn't have done this. The only way for him to get this info, as scum, would be to look on the first page. If he had known that, he would know that all of us have access to the first page and this point is moot. I highly doubt he thought he could trick us all into thinking it wasn't on the first page or something weird like that. The only way this post makes sense is if he is town, because it would have been very easy to forget the town PM was on the first page and think that only town would have this info in their PM. He was excited by having what he thought was the key to solving this whole problem. I think it is fairly obvious here that he was forgetful town, and not plotting scum.

This is perfectly logical and there is no scum-side explanation for it. So, anyone who reads that and still thinks he is strongly scum, I am highly suspicious of..because..REALLY?? come on.

So, that means moving onto others because I absolutely think we can not lynch Musher, even with the whole "bad town" argument, it's a poor one to use against a doc.

I re-read strife first because TVoD was my main suspect before he was replaced. Strife totally comes off as town to me, which either means I was way off or he's way good...keepin an eye out on that.
So, I re-looked at HackerHuck (in addition to any arguments made against him recently). I don't feel anything one way or the other about him. He's mid-level. Not enough for a lynch.

Lord_hur I could go for, on re-read of him, he repeatedly references that he's new (which always looks like a "build a cover for myself if I make a mistake" to me). He also seems like he's trying too hard to look like he's hunting scum but his questions are often vague or off-the-point of actually finding scum (such as theoretical game questions as seen in hur-view #73,77 just to point out a couple). During my re-read of springlullaby, I noticed she referenced post #107 saying that it was pretty articficial, and that is also the one I felt was "trying too hard" as I just mentioned.

A town mind doesn't come up with so many vaguely relevant questions addressed to so many people, it is more likely a post by a scum who want to look busy - especially since you don't seem to be garnering any insight in the game from the answers you got.

QFT

and, not to throw this in your face, but really..

This includes fake-scumhunting using scumtells I really believe in.

It just totally makes sense that you said that, with how some of your posts come off.

So, I'm glad it's not just me that thinks it seems out of place. He throws suspicion out to a lot of places but doesn't really ever come down on anyone. He avoided voting in the first lynch. I can understand if one doesn't agree with a lynch that is about to happen, but to have no vote on anyone? interesting.

He becomes crazy defensive towards Spring when she brings a case against him. I think she had some valid points and his comment:

others : keep in mind that it's pretty easy to find a few scumtells in that many posts, and she's having an easy time because no one can strike her back since she's replacing a ghost.

Who cares if "no one can strike her back"? A good defense should require no "strike back" against the person questioning you. In fact, that's a terrible defense--just attacking the person who has been questioning you. I think this was grasping at straws to make her arguments seem invalid.

vote lord_hur

I have thoughts on others, I took them down on notepad for later, but I'll not post them since that would make this post ridiculous long and also this vote would be my end result anyway.

[SeraphicMirth]

Also, this is my last post before deadline as well. I won't be able to get back on until school starts Monday. I've stated my case for who I think should be the lynch, and who I don't think should be the lynch..there's not much more I can do. I wish I could read a defense, but these things have been brought up against hur before and his defenses are kinda lacking. So, I think my vote would stay the same.

Good luck all.

[strife220]

I don't think there's much point in voting Hur, SM. SpringLullaby (v/la) and Hur himself are 2 of the 5 people not on the Musher wagon, so it seems impossible for him to get the 5 votes needed for a lynch.

I suppose I'll

Unvote, Vote: HackerHuck

because I'd still prefer to see him lynched than Musher.

[strife220]

Bah... and with SeraphicMirth leaving with her vote on Hur, that means a HackerHuck lynch is impossible too, without participation from the Musher-wagon

[HackerHuck]

Since we're a couple of days from deadline I wanted to post these so that everyone is aware of the deadline rule.

2. Should a deadline be placed, a majority is no longer required to lynch a person. At the end of the deadline, the person with most votes will be lynched. If there is a tie, nobody will be lynched

That said, of course I will oppose my own lynch, but I won't oppose a lynch of Musher (my first suspect), Lord_hur, or Springlullaby.

Strife- what changed your mind? This post references Lord_Hur.

As I've already said, I don't want a Musher-lynch or a no-lynch. When I did my full readthrough on replacing, HackerHuck did not ping my scum-dar. Upon re-reading him, I still didn't see anything that made me think he was likely scum.
When I did my full readthrough on replacing, you did come up nearer the top of my 'potential scum' list. And relative to HackerHuck and Musher, I think you're a good choice. When I have some more time, if SL doesn't hammer Musher, I'll present a full case.

[lord_hur]

And yet another attack. Here we go.

Lord_hur I could go for, on re-read of him, he repeatedly references that he's new (which always looks like a "build a cover for myself if I make a mistake" to me).

Hmm I always thought this to be ridiculous and a very weak way to vote someone. My opinion still stands. I never said this out of the blue, always to justify a question, one of my opinions probably being not so accurate, or on one occasion that mistake at the very beginning of the game (still not sure it was a mistake, btw). Also, I'll answer the same thing than to springlullaby, who already asked this : if this was a cover, tell me what scumtell I was trying to cover.

He also seems like he's trying too hard to look like he's hunting scum but his questions are often vague or off-the-point of actually finding scum (such as theoretical game questions as seen in hur-view #73,77 just to point out a couple). During my re-read of springlullaby, I noticed she referenced post #107 saying that it was pretty articficial, and that is also the one I felt was "trying too hard" as I just mentioned.

A town mind doesn't come up with so many vaguely relevant questions addressed to so many people, it is more likely a post by a scum who want to look busy - especially since you don't seem to be garnering any insight in the game from the answers you got.

QFT

Another point raised by springlullaby, to which I already answered in post 528.

and, not to throw this in your face, but really..

This includes fake-scumhunting using scumtells I really believe in.

It just totally makes sense that you said that, with how some of your posts come off.

Could you be even more vague? So I can even more not defend myself ?

He throws suspicion out to a lot of places but doesn't really ever come down on anyone. He avoided voting in the first lynch. I can understand if one doesn't agree with a lynch that is about to happen, but to have no vote on anyone? interesting.

Metagame me and you'll see it's my usual play. I have never participated in a mislynch, because I only vote when I have very solid grounds for it, and to force scum to go and place their votes (who are nearly always causing townie lynches on day 1). Maybe it's bad play, but it is how I play right now (and I've not seen it to be particularly inefficient, so it will stay like that for now).

He becomes crazy defensive towards Spring when she brings a case against him. I think she had some valid points

How about, I don't know, raising them before and allow me to answer them then ? I specifically said why I didn't reply to springlullaby’s case as a whole, and invited people to say which point interested them. SL did that, and I gave a detailed defense. But maybe you don't care much about my answers ?

and his comment:

others : keep in mind that it's pretty easy to find a few scumtells in that many posts, and she's having an easy time because no one can strike her back since she's replacing a ghost.

Who cares if "no one can strike her back"? A good defense should require no "strike back" against the person questioning you. In fact, that's a terrible defense--just attacking the person who has been questioning you. I think this was grasping at straws to make her arguments seem invalid.

It was not my defense, only a comment. And it is true. It is always easier to attack when you have nothing to defend. I have been attacked many times during this game, more than anyone else I’m sure, and it was pretty hard to set these attacks aside, put myself in aggressive mode and scumhunt, especially after springlullaby’s. Also, I was in a worse position than her, because she had nothing to account for, so I could not use anything she said before for my defense (like “hey, you made a similar mistake here”). This is why I was saying she had the upperground. But again, it was a comment, not a defense, stop twisting things.

I have thoughts on others, I took them down on notepad for later, but I'll not post them since that would make this post ridiculous long and also this vote would be my end result anyway.

Why going out of your way to say this ? To justify how you so suddenly seem to be focused on me, maybe ?

Also, this is my last post before deadline as well. I won't be able to get back on until school starts Monday. I've stated my case for who I think should be the lynch, and who I don't think should be the lynch..there's not much more I can do. I wish I could read a defense,

How kind of you.

but these things have been brought up against hur before and his defenses are kinda lacking. So, I think my vote would stay the same.

Good luck all.

My defenses are lacking ? Completely vague. Proof or it didn't happen.

You *never* before these two posts expressed suspicion at me, and now you throw me this joke of case, almost all ripped off from spinglullaby’s, and just go V/LA till the end of the day ? How nice.

If you’re town, you should be ashamed.

If you’re scum, it makes sense if you’re expecting a big onslaught from strife220 and needed to place a vote. That only makes sense if Musher333 is scum though, and I don’t think he is. Or maybe you’re scum and afraid of hammering him ? Not very plausible either. So I must admit it makes you rather pro-town right now, unless I'm missing something.

[Mr Stoofer]

This is the most recent vote count published by the Mod. It contains an error (Musher333 appears twice; no Singing Librarian) so I have done my best to correct it :

Votecount

Musher333 - 3 (Mr Stoofer, hasdgfas, HackerHuck)
HackerHuck - 2 (lord_hur, springlullaby)
hasdgfas - 1 (strife220)

Not voting

: Musher333, SeraphicMirth,

Musher333

Singing Librarian

With 9 alive, it's

5 to lynch

Assuming I got that right, the position now is this:

Unofficial Votecount

Musher333 - 4 (Mr Stoofer, hasdgfas, HackerHuck, Singing Librarian)
HackerHuck - 3 (lord_hur, springlullaby, strife220)
lord_hur - 1 (SeraphicMirth)

Not voting

: Musher333

Because a tie-no=lynch, if anyone moves off Musher333 now they will cause a no-lynch (unless they move to Hacker Huck).

So while I think I would rather lynch lord_hur today, if I move onto him that will just mean nobody gets lynched, and that would be a Bad Thing IMHO.

[strife220]

Strife- what changed your mind? This post references Lord_Hur.

As I've already said, I don't want a Musher-lynch or a no-lynch. When I did my full readthrough on replacing, HackerHuck did not ping my scum-dar. Upon re-reading him, I still didn't see anything that made me think he was likely scum.
When I did my full readthrough on replacing, you did come up nearer the top of my 'potential scum' list. And relative to HackerHuck and Musher, I think you're a good choice. When I have some more time, if SL doesn't hammer Musher, I'll present a full case.

Changed my mind about presenting a case? SL said she would post up her summary on Wednesday, so first I waited to see if she'd hammer Musher like she said she may. Wednesday passed and no update, but then thursday she said she was going to leave her vote on HackerHuck. My logic I believe was already stated - there are 5 of us not on the Musher-wagon, one of which is Hur himself, and to get a lynch off on someone Hur, we would need all 5 of us (4 not voting Musher + Stoofer) together. With her vote stuck on HackerHuck, there's no way that would happen. It usually takes me several hours to do detailed rereads and present a full case, as I believe anyone can sympathize with, so I usually only do them if I think they may prove worthwhile. I'd rather lynch you than Musher, and SL and Hur are already voting you, hence my current vote.

However, Stoofer just said he'd probably rather lynch lord_hur today. I'd much rather lynch Hur. Hacker, you said Hur would be a good choice, but would you be willing to switch from Musher?



I believe Stoofer's unofficial votecount is correct. SeraphicMirth is leaving her on Hur until deadline, which means that the only way a Hacker lynch is going to go off is if Stoofer, Hasdgfas, or SLibrarian switch to him. Since none of those seem likely, I'm going to

Unvote, Vote: Lord_Hur

since it seems my vote has a chance to actually do something there. Apologies for not making the case as promised. I do have a bit done, but it's only half through D1 (and on my computer at home). I picked out Hur's unusual speculation on game mechanics/power roles, and an incident where he defended Hasdgfas as potentially scummy. I'll post what I got thus far when I get home from work if anyone wants.

If somebody on the Musher wagon switches to HackerHuck, I will definitely check before deadline to make sure my vote goes somewhere that will complete a lynch: preference being Hur > Hacker > Musher or nolynch.

[Mr Stoofer]

OK, strife220, on that basis I can safely

unvote: Musher333

and

vote: lord_hur

. I am counting on you sticking to your last paragraph (although I would prefer a slightly different order, the main thing is not to no-lynch).

[Mr Stoofer]

Unofficial Votecount

Musher333 - 3 (hasdgfas, HackerHuck, Singing Librarian)
lord_hur - 3 (SeraphicMirth, strife220, Mr Stoofer)
HackerHuck - 2 (lord_hur, springlullaby)

Not voting

: Musher333

This means that if the deadline hits, no-one will be lynched; but strife220 has promised to vote for Musher (or just unvote) to ensure that that does no happen.

[lord_hur]

I picked out Hur's unusual speculation on game mechanics/power roles, and an incident where he defended Hasdgfas as potentially scummy.

What, you're talking about those very first posts of the day? Everyone discarded that, even Mr Stoofer, and you unearth it now in very vague terms?

I don't remember defending hasdgfas, mind enlighting me ?


I can't believe I'm going down on such ridiculous cases ><

Because you perfectly know that HackerHuck will jump on me first thing, and as such that I'm done for.

I guess I should claim, but I'm not even sure it will help town. I have the feeling we had a role to reveal people, but that it was kabenon007's >< Dammit, vote me for this role speculation, I don't care anymore. Well, at least I know what no-reveal games are now, and I'll be sure to avoid them like the plague, or ask for a replacement if I'm unknowingly dragged into one.

lord_hur out

[Musher333]

Unofficial Votecount

Musher333 - 3 (hasdgfas, HackerHuck, Singing Librarian)
lord_hur - 3 (SeraphicMirth, strife220, Mr Stoofer)
HackerHuck - 2 (lord_hur, springlullaby)

Not voting

: Musher333

This means that if the deadline hits, no-one will be lynched; but strife220 has promised to vote for Musher (or just unvote) to ensure that that does no happen.

Or i could just

Vote:Hur

[strife220]

Hmm... Just so I know what I'm getting in to here.

Right now it's 3, 3, 2 votes for Musher, Hur, and Huck respectively. Musher is an idiot and not voting to save his own skin, but presumably he will vote for Hur if he logs in. That will make it a Hur majority at deadline.

Your Vote: Hur is under the condition that if Musher doesn't vote and it's still 3, 3, 2 come evening, I will vote so that Musher gets lynched instead of no-lynch?

[strife220]

Nm, crossposted.

[lord_hur]

My logic I believe was already stated - there are 5 of us not on the Musher-wagon, one of which is Hur himself, and to get a lynch off on someone Hur, we would need all 5 of us (4 not voting Musher + Stoofer) together.

You're wrong, 4 are enough to lynch because of the deadline. But you already knew that, right ?

[lord_hur]

Unofficial Votecount

Musher333 - 3 (hasdgfas, HackerHuck, Singing Librarian)
lord_hur - 3 (SeraphicMirth, strife220, Mr Stoofer)
HackerHuck - 2 (lord_hur, springlullaby)

Not voting

: Musher333

This means that if the deadline hits, no-one will be lynched; but strife220 has promised to vote for Musher (or just unvote) to ensure that that does no happen.

Or i could just

Vote:Hur

Dammit, nice revenge Musher333, you really got me. I really thought you were town

[strife220]

Hur:

My re-read started from D1, and I had to stop after an hour or so in. I only got to I think page 11 or 12, so I'm sorry but the only evidence that I got concretely written town was about that time frame. Your D2 play has been more than questionable.

hasdgfas is scum. At the bottom of the thread, where it says 'display posts by previous', click hasdgfas, and view his posts in isolation:

Post 0 -- he random votes for HH because he doesn't want to get hacked. He is showing care for his own well being, even in his joke.

Post 1 -- he addresses a question posed to someone else (tvod, conveniently), and talks about how "we" shouldn't do "x" because that would help "them" -- the scum. This post is trying to be helpful but isn't, and interjects so tvod can't answer the question untainted.

Post 2 -- Similarly appears to be helpful but isn't really. 'Why not play mafia?'. ...

Post 3 -- hasdgfas is definitely directing tvod here; my most probable read is scum directing scum (partner, why do you act suspiciously? act better!) but I think that scum directing new town to look nice a pro-town is an almost as probable scenario.

Post 4 -- Casts minor suspicion and comments on how 'he doesn't like' something.

Cliff Notes

hasdgfas has posted a few times but hasn't really been helpful, though he has appeared to be so while talking about theory. imo scum love to do this. He is guilty of directing tvod and protecting him from a question, a connection a townie would not want to make. Lastly, his diction leads me to believe that he is scum; instances such as the 'I don't want to get hacked' and careful use of we to refer to town and they to refer to scum make me believe this.

SlySly is also probably scum.

tvod may or may not be scum; there is evidence of a hasdgfas connection, for sure. I am unsure how much faith I have in the direct case on tvod.

unvote: slysly ; vote: hasdgfas

fos: slysly, mfos: tvod

My own opinion on this :

0. Very far-fetched.

1. I don't like the use of we and them too, I must admit. But it is not a good scumtell in my books.

2. Well it wasn't the most useful thing to say, but it was on point regarding what VOD said. No scumtell.

3. He was trying to make VOD talk, not directing him. And I would have been interested in VOD's answer too. Pro-town to me.

4. Same, he's just provoking a reaction. Slightly pro-town.

On the other hand, I do agree with you on the fact hasdgfas has only said pretty obvious things, that others would surely have asked if he wasn't there (on 4 I actually said the same thing right before he did, probably Sarnath'ed him though).

I don't think it should get him a vote for now though. But if he still hasn't contributed much in a week or so... (<- this is a subtle hint directed to hasdgfas).

Post 94, if you ask. Guardian made an attack post, and Hasdgfas makes a short counter. You then make a big chain-saw defense on D1 in the scum-hunting stage. There's no pro-town reason to do this. Guardian's attack wasn't very good, but there was absolutely no need for it to be responded to by anyone other than hasdgfas himself.


If you're town, you should definitely do a full claim Hur. Roles may not be revealed upon death, so you should spill Name, Job Title, and Job. Not sure if there's a point to claim food or not.

[strife220]

My logic I believe was already stated - there are 5 of us not on the Musher-wagon, one of which is Hur himself, and to get a lynch off on someone Hur, we would need all 5 of us (4 not voting Musher + Stoofer) together.

You're wrong, 4 are enough to lynch because of the deadline. But you already knew that, right ?

4 would have been a tie, assuming hur shifted to Musher to avoid his own lynch.

[lord_hur]

Big question : should I claim ?

Only one person can persuade me to.

[Mr Stoofer]

What letter does their name begin with?

[lord_hur]

Hur:

My re-read started from D1, and I had to stop after an hour or so in. I only got to I think page 11 or 12, so I'm sorry but the only evidence that I got concretely written town was about that time frame. Your D2 play has been more than questionable.

hasdgfas is scum. At the bottom of the thread, where it says 'display posts by previous', click hasdgfas, and view his posts in isolation:

Post 0 -- he random votes for HH because he doesn't want to get hacked. He is showing care for his own well being, even in his joke.

Post 1 -- he addresses a question posed to someone else (tvod, conveniently), and talks about how "we" shouldn't do "x" because that would help "them" -- the scum. This post is trying to be helpful but isn't, and interjects so tvod can't answer the question untainted.

Post 2 -- Similarly appears to be helpful but isn't really. 'Why not play mafia?'. ...

Post 3 -- hasdgfas is definitely directing tvod here; my most probable read is scum directing scum (partner, why do you act suspiciously? act better!) but I think that scum directing new town to look nice a pro-town is an almost as probable scenario.

Post 4 -- Casts minor suspicion and comments on how 'he doesn't like' something.

Cliff Notes

hasdgfas has posted a few times but hasn't really been helpful, though he has appeared to be so while talking about theory. imo scum love to do this. He is guilty of directing tvod and protecting him from a question, a connection a townie would not want to make. Lastly, his diction leads me to believe that he is scum; instances such as the 'I don't want to get hacked' and careful use of we to refer to town and they to refer to scum make me believe this.

SlySly is also probably scum.

tvod may or may not be scum; there is evidence of a hasdgfas connection, for sure. I am unsure how much faith I have in the direct case on tvod.

unvote: slysly ; vote: hasdgfas

fos: slysly, mfos: tvod

My own opinion on this :

0. Very far-fetched.

1. I don't like the use of we and them too, I must admit. But it is not a good scumtell in my books.

2. Well it wasn't the most useful thing to say, but it was on point regarding what VOD said. No scumtell.

3. He was trying to make VOD talk, not directing him. And I would have been interested in VOD's answer too. Pro-town to me.

4. Same, he's just provoking a reaction. Slightly pro-town.

On the other hand, I do agree with you on the fact hasdgfas has only said pretty obvious things, that others would surely have asked if he wasn't there (on 4 I actually said the same thing right before he did, probably Sarnath'ed him though).

I don't think it should get him a vote for now though. But if he still hasn't contributed much in a week or so... (<- this is a subtle hint directed to hasdgfas).

Post 94, if you ask. Guardian made an attack post, and Hasdgfas makes a short counter. You then make a big chain-saw defense on D1 in the scum-hunting stage. There's no pro-town reason to do this. Guardian's attack wasn't very good, but there was absolutely no need for it to be responded to by anyone other than hasdgfas himself.

The attack was so stupid, I thought it wouldn't hurt to reply to it. Ends up it hurt me.

[lord_hur]

What letter does their name begin with?

their name ? I don't get it.