Newbie 607 (Ruined)

[Flameaxe]

Dcorbe replaces Mamaluigi!

I'm considering a deadline, but not this close to a replacement.


Votecount:

SpyreX [2] (IH, Gimbo)
ZeekLTK [2] (Dcorbe, Bridges)
Pickemgenius [2] (ZeekLTK, SpyreX)
IH [1] (Evilgorillaz)
Dcorbe [1] (Pickemgenius)
Evilgorillaz [1] (Shadowlurker)

Not Voting [0] ()

5 to lynch.

2 week deadline.

[dcorbe]

I owe you guys a quick read, which I will do tonight.

Thanks for being patient with me, I'm just as anxious as the rest of you to get the ball rolling here.

[dcorbe]

I've only gotten up to page 5 and I'm already getting a headache from reading pickemgenius' posts.

Here's a hint for you dude: OMGUS is a scum tell. It's not enough to warrant a lynch by itself (because that's really how some people play) but I've also learned to keep an OMGUS point log in all my notes and I've found that the more people do it, the better chance it is that they're scum.

The reason you should be lynched is because the only thing you seem to do at all is sit here and yell at people playing this game if what they say doesn't conveniently fit into your world view. In the first 5 pages you've contributed literally nothing useful. You've done no scum hunting, and you've bandwagoned people with no justification.

I'm going to keep reading but I felt I needed to pause and put this out there.

Vote: pickemgenius

even if he isn't scum, all he's doing is harming the town.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

...Maybe you should have read the whole game before voting...

Is there a reason that you are not revealing all of the OMGUSes that you have found? Do you really think that OMGUS is a scum-tell? Are scum more likely to OMGUS vote?

I'm not defending myself now, because I don't know who has omgus-ed vote or not. I think that OMGUS is usually an anti-town gesture, but rarely a scum-tell. In short, I disagree strongly with your ideas about OMGUS.

[dcorbe]

...Maybe you should have read the whole game before voting...

I read the rest of the game. It's 13 pages of you guys arguing back and fourth about whether or not to lynch him, with only a little bit of actual scum hunting sprinkled in for flavor. I even stopped taking notes around page 7 or so because it's just ridiculously obvious to me that this town is being dragged down by him.

Is there a reason that you are not revealing all of the OMGUSes that you have found? Do you really think that OMGUS is a scum-tell? Are scum more likely to OMGUS vote?

It is a scum tell, all be it a very minor one. As I indicated some people play that way. It eventually adds up to be a major scum tell and in any event it's very disruptive to the progress of the game as you can clearly see from the 13 pages of pickering that has gone on so far.

I'm not defending myself now, because I don't know who has omgus-ed vote or not. I think that OMGUS is usually an anti-town gesture, but rarely a scum-tell. In short, I disagree strongly with your ideas about OMGUS.

You're free to disagree with me. That's you're right. But I would encourage you to read a few more games before you jump to that conclusion.

I'm merely attempting to relate my experiences to the rest of the group. Unfortunately I'm newer at this than most of the rest of you so I don't have much in the way of gospel to quote and talking about ongoing games here is a big no-no. As I indicated though, I started keeping OMGUS point logs because if it happens frequently enough it becomes a major scum tell.

I would at minimum encourage you to go and read Open 69. It's a good example of how eventually continually OMGUS gave away a member of the mafia.

pickemgenius' OMGUS style of play aside, what in the way of useful scum hunting has he done so far? Please quote posts.

It's quite apparent that his presence in this game (whether he's townie or not) is causing major dysfunction amongst the town. A dysfunctional town means the mob has an excellent shot at victory. They're going to take advantage of that dysfunction and walk us into mis-lynches every single day, and then they're going to pick us off one-by-one at night.

It's harmful to keep him alive at this point. Hopefully he'll be lynched in a few more games for acting like this and he'll straighten himself up.

Bottom line: he needs to go, so that we can start some useful scum hunting on day 2.



[/url]

[dcorbe]

Another thing that makes me think he's scum is that he was apparently put into this game as an IC (judging from his signup date, but I also sent a pm to flameaxe to confirm) so he SHOULD know better than to act like this. He's trying to take advantage of the town. It's called divide and conquer.

[SpyreX]

I am very glad to see some new blood in here.

IH -

I understand limited connectivity and I know how hard it is to have a mother in the hospital for anything. I'm just saying WHEN he comes back I hope there's some depth - and I have seen him pokin around with little posts so.

DC -

The fact I feel PEG is scum aside, I do think that his play is more disruptive than helpful. What, if anything, do you think about anyone else?

[dcorbe]

DC -

The fact I feel PEG is scum aside, I do think that his play is more disruptive than helpful. What, if anything, do you think about anyone else?

I'm not prepared to answer that question until day 2. Under normal circumstances I wouldn't advocate quick-lynching anyone because it is all too often harmful to the town; however, in this particular instance I think a quick lynch is the lesser of two evils.

[SpyreX]

Also, as another aside to the active townies minus DC the new:

I think one trap we've all fell into is that we're using

absolute

terminologies to describe situations that are anything but.

Scum-tells are, by nature, fluid. They can not be absolute (or else the town would just win every game) - if I think something is a scumtell and others do not, that does not mean one of us were 'wrong' - in these situations, there isn't really a right or wrong, just different ways of viewing the game and the players.

My thinking PEG is behaving very scummy doesn't make it 'wrong' if you disagree. It means that, on some level, his behavior has raised my brow.

So, if I've said anyone is "wrong" in their opinion of PEG as of now, I'm sorry because that isn't helpful. The only things that could really be "wrong" would be misreading a quote within context (as in missing actual words, not interpretation of meaning).

DC - normally I would be really bothered by this statement - anything that isn't giving information, to me, is a bad thing. As it sits, as long as you give your synopsis day two I understand

[dcorbe]

DC - normally I would be really bothered by this statement -

anything that isn't giving information, to me, is a bad thing.

As it sits, as long as you give your synopsis day two I understand

As you should be bothered. Quick lynches are usually a no-no. But you're also trying to imply that I haven't given reasonable justification for my vote (bolded above)

Can you please explain that comment to the rest of the group?

[SpyreX]

Sorry, I've been up for a while and a work deadline is looming.

What I meant is - I asked for information and you decided to give it at a later time. So, normally, right now I'd be bothered because your not being forthcoming. HOWEVER, because of how awesome this game has been I totally understand waiting until day 2 and as long as you give the synopsis then I dont have any problems.

[SpyreX]

(the information I am talking about is your feelings on everyone but PEG - PEG, to me, has been scummy for a loooong time now)

[dcorbe]

Sorry, I've been up for a while and a work deadline is looming.

What I meant is - I asked for information and you decided to give it at a later time. So, normally, right now I'd be bothered because your not being forthcoming. HOWEVER, because of how awesome this game has been I totally understand waiting until day 2 and as long as you give the synopsis then I dont have any problems.

I've been very forthcoming so far with my opinions and my justification for my current vote. If I felt comfortable enough with my reads on other people to go out on a limb, I would. I'm not going to put myself out there like that just because I'm asked to do so.

[Flameaxe]

2 week deadline. Prods in a sec.

[IH]

Here's a hint for you dude: OMGUS is a scum tell. It's not enough to warrant a lynch by itself (because that's really how some people play) but I've also learned to keep an OMGUS point log in all my notes and I've found that the more people do it, the better chance it is that they're scum.

Disagree, especially in the random stage.

Vote: pickemgenius even if he isn't scum, all he's doing is harming the town.

I will take no part in lynching someone because they are, "harming the town" or if they are a , "Safe lynch".

[/exp]

IH -

I understand limited connectivity and I know how hard it is to have a mother in the hospital for anything. I'm just saying WHEN he comes back I hope there's some depth - and I have seen him pokin around with little posts so.

Coming from someone who is constantly behind-It's alot harder to actually read than to check in X_X

See all of my games from last fall and this spring X_X

Meh... now I'm unsure on my Spyrex vote. The above posts of his were decent.

= (

Meh, I've changed my mind, and I'm moving my vote to Zeek for already stated reasons, and I want to see more from Spyrex, despite that tell I already stated.

Also, I do not approve of a Peg lynch.

It is a current Win/Win for me.

TO CLARIFY-I do not support the Peg lynch. I think the reasons that have been given have been less of indications that Peg has been scum, other than that silly Omgus tell, which is not scummy in the random stage, and certainly not a tell to me from how long Peg has been playing, and to the extent I have seen him play in scumchat.
In fact the only reasons I have seen that were given to lynch peg was that, "He isn't helpful, we should lynch him because even if we're wrong, then it won't matter if he's helpful!" It's a very EASY and SAFE wagon, in the fact the there is no "consequence" in their eyes for if Peg comes up town.

In my eyes, this is an ideal place for scum to hide. If Peg is lynched and comes up scum, I personally won't trust ANYONE, because of how easy it would be for scum to throw his buddy under this bus. If this is an all town lynch on a scum, I'm gonna say it's blind luck on a safe wagon with someone who can't or won't defend himself.

In conclusion

We shouldn't be lynching helpless people we should be lynching scum.

unvote, vote:Zeek

[BridgesAndBaloons]

FOS: dcorbe

AND

IMEOY: dcorbe

at this point in the game, especially with dcorbe being so new to this actual game, I don't think it would be helpful for me to explain my suspicions.
However, If I die tonight, I would like the rest of the town to look at dcorbe very carefully. I'm dead serious.

IH: any reason for the switch? Do you still think SpyreX is scummy?
Dcorbe: What do you think of ShadowLurker?

[SpyreX]

IH,

I do not think that PEG is going to get lynched until he has a chance to defend himself. If it gets close to hammer I, who very much thinks his play is not helping, will unvote until deadline if he hasn't responded.

However, I can only speak for myself and I do find his play personally scummy, not just unhelpful. Until that changes, I am not going to move away - if I start to get some doubt based on his defense of this game then, yes, I think I'd be more leery because of how hard he's been pushed. Right now I dont think the pushing is because its easy, but because its scummy... at least on my part.

What tell are you talking about?

With 3 votes, I think, on PEG the only way I think this could be a scum bus is DCorbe. I am not saying Zeek is town but I'd really be shocked if both Zeek and PEG were scum.

[dcorbe]

Here's a hint for you dude: OMGUS is a scum tell. It's not enough to warrant a lynch by itself (because that's really how some people play) but I've also learned to keep an OMGUS point log in all my notes and I've found that the more people do it, the better chance it is that they're scum.

Disagree, especially in the random stage.

Like I said you're free to disagree with me. But "OMGUS is not a scum tell" flies in the face of conventional wisdom with the way the games are set up on this board. 90% of the people here would disagree with you.

Vote: pickemgenius even if he isn't scum, all he's doing is harming the town.

I will take no part in lynching someone because they are, "harming the town" or if they are a , "Safe lynch".

There's a HUGE difference between a safe lynch and lynching someone who is doing actual harm to the town. Why on earth would you want to keep someone alive if he's harming the town? Do you want a mob victory?

Also, I do not approve of a Peg lynch.

That's twice you've said the same thing in one post.

It is a current Win/Win for me.

What's a win/win for you?

TO CLARIFY-I do not support the Peg lynch. I think the reasons that have been given have been less of indications that Peg has been scum, other than that silly Omgus tell, which is not scummy in the random stage, and certainly not a tell to me from how long Peg has been playing, and to the extent I have seen him play in scumchat.
In fact the only reasons I have seen that were given to lynch peg was that, "He isn't helpful, we should lynch him because even if we're wrong, then it won't matter if he's helpful!" It's a very EASY and SAFE wagon, in the fact the there is no "consequence" in their eyes for if Peg comes up town.

In my eyes, this is an ideal place for scum to hide. If Peg is lynched and comes up scum, I personally won't trust ANYONE, because of how easy it would be for scum to throw his buddy under this bus. If this is an all town lynch on a scum, I'm gonna say it's blind luck on a safe wagon with someone who can't or won't defend himself.

In conclusion

Scratch that, 3 times. Scum also like to coast along contributing nothing, which is what he seems to be doing right now. So you're saying because he can't or won't defend himself that we should give him a pass? Boy I want to be scum in your next game...

We shouldn't be lynching helpless people we should be lynching scum.

He's not helpless. He was put into this game as an IC. IC's are expected to be helpful. How has he been helpful? Please quote posts, because the way I see it for an IC to be put into a newbie game and OMGUS and berate the rest of us must mean the only people he is trying to help is the scum.

at this point in the game, especially with dcorbe being so new to this actual game, I don't think it would be helpful for me to explain my suspicions.

That sounds like an awfully convenient excuse for you to not have to justify anything to anyone. Baseless votes are also a scum tell.

And just because I signed up after you doesn't mean I have any less experience than anyone else here. Games on MS are radically different than games IRL or in realtime chat (IRC for instance). I've completed 2 games on this board now. How many have you completed?

[dcorbe]

BTW he's ACTIVELY lurking right now. He's posting in other places and he's even modding a different game.

@Mod: Can you prod him please?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... ckemgenius

[SpyreX]

... Wow. He definitely is being active and STILL isn't posting in here.

Is that, also, somehow not scummy?

[Gimbo]

^ Have to agree with SyreX there. I checked the active users list once yesterday and he was on it. Surprised that he didn't post in this game especially since right now, everyone needs some questions answered by him.

Can we please somehow gets the lurkers to start contributing, because I think there's 3 or 4 thats like active but not even posting anything here at all.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Prod: MamaLuigi

ugh I made a post like 3 hours ago and it's not here. wtf.

I'll try again...

That sounds like an awfully convenient excuse for you to not have to justify anything to anyone. Baseless votes are also a scum tell.

And just because I signed up after you doesn't mean I have any less experience than anyone else here. Games on MS are radically different than games IRL or in realtime chat (IRC for instance). I've completed 2 games on this board now. How many have you completed?

1) I said that I personally am suspicious of you. Why should I justify my own beliefs when it would be anti-town? I'm not saying "Let's Lynch you!" I was expressing my feelings from your initial posts. Don't worry, I'll elaborate later today. I think it's suspicious you want me to explain my feelings when I specifically said that it probably wouldn't be helpful at this part of the game to elaborate. God, do you want the town to get side-tracked!? Why are you so defensive?
You have nothing to worry about. You can defend yourself when I make a case. Don't you try to spin it to make me scummy. That's complete OMGUSing without a doubt.
2) When did I ever say you were less experienced than me?
Also, why is this (your last question) relevant?
I'll answer if you give me a satisfactory answer to my questions.

You misread me by the way. When I said "so new to this game," I meant

this

game. As in Newbie 607.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

forgot to post something.
I'm really pissed at PEG for lurking. I hate lurkers.

PROD: PEG


PROD: ShadowLurker

[dcorbe]

Prod: MamaLuigi

ugh I made a post like 3 hours ago and it's not here. wtf.

I replaced MamaLuigi

I'll try again...

That sounds like an awfully convenient excuse for you to not have to justify anything to anyone. Baseless votes are also a scum tell.

And just because I signed up after you doesn't mean I have any less experience than anyone else here. Games on MS are radically different than games IRL or in realtime chat (IRC for instance). I've completed 2 games on this board now. How many have you completed?

1) I said that I personally am suspicious of you. Why should I justify my own beliefs when it would be anti-town? I'm not saying "Let's Lynch you!" I was expressing my feelings from your initial posts. Don't worry, I'll elaborate later today. I think it's suspicious you want me to explain my feelings when I specifically said that it probably wouldn't be helpful at this part of the game to elaborate. God, do you want the town to get side-tracked!? Why are you so defensive?
You have nothing to worry about. You can defend yourself when I make a case. Don't you try to spin it to make me scummy. That's complete OMGUSing without a doubt.
[/quote]

This is total WIOFMy craplogic. It's totally unreasonable for you to cast doubt and suspicion without explaining yourself. I don't see how you're helping the town by refusing to answer simple questions. How am I being defensive by asking you to explain yourself?

[dcorbe]

EBWOP: Tags got screwed up

Prod: MamaLuigi

ugh I made a post like 3 hours ago and it's not here. wtf.

I replaced MamaLuigi

I'll try again...

That sounds like an awfully convenient excuse for you to not have to justify anything to anyone. Baseless votes are also a scum tell.

And just because I signed up after you doesn't mean I have any less experience than anyone else here. Games on MS are radically different than games IRL or in realtime chat (IRC for instance). I've completed 2 games on this board now. How many have you completed?

1) I said that I personally am suspicious of you. Why should I justify my own beliefs when it would be anti-town? I'm not saying "Let's Lynch you!" I was expressing my feelings from your initial posts. Don't worry, I'll elaborate later today. I think it's suspicious you want me to explain my feelings when I specifically said that it probably wouldn't be helpful at this part of the game to elaborate. God, do you want the town to get side-tracked!? Why are you so defensive?
You have nothing to worry about. You can defend yourself when I make a case. Don't you try to spin it to make me scummy. That's complete OMGUSing without a doubt.

This is total WIOFMy craplogic. It's totally unreasonable for you to cast doubt and suspicion without explaining yourself. I don't see how you're helping the town by refusing to answer simple questions. How am I being defensive by asking you to explain yourself?