Mini #556 - The Most Excellent People Ever - Called.

[Guardian]

Hi. I'm here.

unvote

until I read. Expect that in the next week, probably next 48 hours but no guarantees.

[Guardian]

I agree with my predecessor's call for short day 1s. I don't think day 1s are completely useless however, or that we cannot determine someone's alignment from questionable day 1 behavior.

My top suspects right now are Lloyd, Panzer, tyhess.

tyhess's knee-jerk reaction to RoTN was pretty much his only contribution to the thread. Claims to be completely lost. Lurker scum.

Panzer has shifted votes a lot. Don't like that.

Lloyd could be scum obfuscating things with words. Words are scummy. These three sentences are not meant to be taken quite literally, but I think you know what I mean.

vote: tyhess

Bangwagon tyhess plz. Thx.

[Guardian]

dont prod me im here....just still deciding if i want to lynch llyod or panzer

That seems like a false dilemma. You don't have to lynch either of us.

FoS

Lovo. A lot of people in this game are scummy but you all can't be scum...

that is true but right now you guys look like the best lynch...just deciding which one looks worse

So, it appears you find panzer and lloyd most scummy.

panzer's vote shifting doesnt bother me as much as he has provided reasons though it is a lil annoying/scummy
llyod a lil unsure about...cant get a read

Here you seem rather unsure about either of them. Can you explain the apparent contradiction?

[Guardian]

This game needs players and a mod.

And more tyhess votes.

[Guardian]

Jester -- what do you think about tyhess?

Are you 100% comfortable with a Lloyd lynch, and are sure that is the best option?

[Guardian]

Still, what bugs me is people reading so much into it as to actually make more of it than it really is. It's a conversation piece at best, and a distraction at worse. To actually make a tell out of a joke is silly.

This sets off about 100 alarm bells in my head. There's a user on this site named EmpTyger -- his user title "It's a JOKE" is from when he got caught as scum for making a joke. Jokes can definitely be scummy.

Thanatos has been lurking about as bad as tyhess, even counting his two vacations. Why does he have us talking about avatars? Why is having an avatar a reasonable indicator of anything? I select avatars based on google picture searches for terms like "cool guy", the avatar I end up getting might be something I know nothing about.

Lovo isn't making much sense. Scum?

unvote: tyhess

vote: Thanatos

FOS: Lovo

unFos: Panzer

reasonable play lately, and someone pointed out his vote changes made sense... and they did, to an extent.

Lloyd has quieted down now that people are getting more suspicious of him... Odd.

[Guardian]

He made a joking role claim, actually.

His was significantly different in that he jokingly claimed to be scum -- but I know many players (myself included) who find that scum are more likely to joke than townies. Develop comraderie with the townies, sense of trust, also relax some nervous tension.

While you didn't quite go so far as to joke claim scum, you did jokingly claim. And the same principle is kind of in action here -- why joke about your role? What's "funny" about it? etc.

[Guardian]

Since Guardian replaced Urzassedatives...If Guardian prefers longer day 1, would that suddenly change his role's alignment?

What do you mean here, I don't understand you.

lloyd, any reaction to my entrance post where I accused you?

lovo -- I read your posts, and I often don't understand your positions or reasons for them. that is what I mean by you not making sense.

why do scum only want a quick day 1, lovo?

[Guardian]

Wow, the more I re-read this thread, the more I find more and more scummy behavior that is just being ignored.

unvote vote: Cavebear with a toothache

Cavebear seems to have paid attention only to the major wagons in this game, hopping from one to the other, being somewhat cautious, calling out others for lurking, and other than calling out lurkers having very little original thought.

Speaking of being tentative and cautions -- Cavebear is the only one not voting.

Cavebear, who do you find suspicious right now, and why?

Is the third time a charm? Possibly.

[Guardian]

I like yur post Cavebear.

I could go with a Thanatos wagon.

(unvote)

Vote: Thanatos

Um, about lloyd, I meant he has a pattern of using too many words when fewer would have sufficed.

His doing so was suspicious because it is easy to obfuscate the meaning of one's posts when they're too elongated.

[Guardian]

cavebear voted and u missed it

[Guardian]

deadline would be good.

[Guardian]

Wait, tyhess needs to be replaced before a deadline. this game neeeeds a mod.

[Guardian]

Every single freaking player I re-read in this thread looks worse than the last.

WTF I hate re-reading this game, it is like Pandora's box.

This time: Korlash places a random vote on The Jester, never removes it, and doesn't scum hunt all day, instead actively lurking.

How many scum are there!?

[Guardian]

Uh, it was the 6th substantive post of the thread, and The Jester hadn't posted yet.

Your claiming to have found scum is a bald faced lie.

WITH ME, SPARTANS!

unvote vote: Korlash

[Guardian]

oh. that's semi-plausible. this game owns me.

[Guardian]

hm. interesting of you to point this out publicly.

I see no reason to not investigate now that it is partially in the open:

Korlash, do you have role based knowledge that jester is scumz?

[Guardian]

So lloyd, how do you feel about your vote now that you're pulling this role based info out of your ass?

[Guardian]

Damn, WHoMe?. I forgot you were even playing....

[Guardian]

Why were you so active Feb 20 and then became so inactive, WhoMe??

[Guardian]

lloyd... from this re-read... who is scum? did you neglect the 25% of the game that you allocate to finding scum, and just do the convincing part?

[Guardian]

ah k, proceed.

[Guardian]

pj, on a scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is risking your game-life on it, how sure are you lloyd is scum?

[Guardian]

K, Lloyd, convince me that you're town. This game is second on my re-read list, I find Pnzer to be caring about the game and moving it forward, which is a good sign for me. I'm a re-read LLoyd, and unless you really strike me as town, I'm gonna say, mimiking the great words of P diddy:

"CLAIM or DIE".

So, you've been warned, Lloyd.

[Guardian]

No.

Claiming is not a scum hunting tool, until mass claim.

Claiming happens when we say "we r lynch joo, unless you makes good claim".

NOT before.

[Guardian]

Even if izzy votes lloyd, he should not claim unless someone threatens to hammer and demands a claim. Someone claiming and then not being lynched sucks tremendously.

[Guardian]

You mean, "Read, Guardian."

as in, read lloyd's posts?

[Guardian]

I wasn't sure what you meant!

[Guardian]

No.

Claiming is not a scum hunting tool, until mass claim.

Claiming happens when we say "we r lynch joo, unless you makes good claim".

NOT before.

No claims until you are at ly -1 and being threatened with a hammer.

[Guardian]

LLoyd, I just re-read you.

Who are the three scummiest players, and why?

[Guardian]

Okay, cool, thanks.

I'd like to hammer Lloyd, so if someone would place the lynch -1 vote and allow him to claim.

Being suspicious of Korlash is internally inconsistent with your The Jester vote.

I'm guessing Korlash is your scum buddy that you're busing, though, thanks!

[Guardian]

Hm. My gambit worked . Lloyd, you're claiming scum for reals, right?

[Guardian]

Not that much of a gambit, tbh. Had he claimed townie I'd have hammered.

But getting a scum claim... .

[Guardian]

Does anyone want further discussion? I believe Lloyd scum is obvious at this point.

[Guardian]

I hate you. I was going to hammer once everyone posted.

I think Korlash is scum.

PJ good job busing/finding scum. Me, good job closing the deal.

Town, good job scum d1 lynch!

[Guardian]

Lloyd succumbed to my pressure.

[Guardian]

Thanks for that Korlash. Thanks.

I played well, helped town, and was happy about it... I congratulate PJ and the rest of the town... and now I'm an egotistical pick. Appreciated.[/sarcasm]

[Guardian]

Where do I take all the credit? 'kinda a prick at times' -- why?

Slander means something that isn't true... And while I agree with that assessment, you don't seem to...

Your post has a very large degree of WIFOM Korlash, why?

[Guardian]

Your post 434 is what ticked me off with the "you taking credit" thing. Added on to that the constant "yay team" "go us" "we rock" attitude yrou giving off even before we actually find out Llyod's affiliation gives me two different impressions. The first is that your trying way toard to show how town you were in getting Llyod lynched.

My posts were honest excitement and happiness, nothing more.

The second is that your very very sure he is mafia. All in all this adds up to me thinking you are scum.

Two points:
Are you doubtful that he is scum?
Are you sure he is

mafia

?

As for the "prick at times" thing I seem to recall another game in which I outed you as scum and you blew up in my face for it. Not to mention the word "prick" just goes well with the word "egotistical." When I posted that I didn't even stop to think of how harsh it was and for that I appologize.

Accepted...

Still think your scum, still hate you because of your predecessor... And am almost willing to let Jester slide tomorrow just to go after you. Who knows, I'll let night do it's thing first because I'm not one to count my chickens before they cross the street... I think...

Mmmk.

Your post has a very large degree of WIFOM Korlash, why?

O.o What? I call it speculation, not WIFOM. Speculating you and Llyod as partners. The WIFOM that you may be talkign about is the part about whether your play has in fact been "Well played." Showin both sides of my speculation. Like I said before, I like you and llyod as partners so I will look at things in that manner. Likewise, you have shown suspicion of me so I assume when you speculate it will be with me as scum. Speculation does breed WIFOM I suppose...

The WIFOM I was referencing was you talking about me being so sure that Lloyd was scum. Do you find it unreasonable to be sure that Lloyd is scum at this juncture?

Slander means something that isn't true... And while I agree with that assessment, you don't seem to...

I use the term "Slander" as a description of something meant to Hurt another by bad talking them, calling them names, personal attacks, demeaning them, etc... So to me, calling you a prick is defined as slander.

The correct definition of slander is something that is all that, AND isn't true.

As for the "isnt true" factor... i suppose most insults aren't... So... I think it fits...

Okay, good.

Again, shouldn't have been so self centered with my use of words. But my experience in this game has been less then friendly so i wouldn't be surprised if it happened again at some point.

Oh? How so? I'm sorry about that, if I've contributed in some way.

My this has been an interesting twilight...

Indeed...

[Guardian]

vote: Korlash

Pretty sure lloyd was in fact busing, and then wifom'd to try and cover-up.

[Guardian]

425 is complete, unadulterated WIFOM.

Using it as ev. for Korlash not being bused is folly.

[Guardian]

I'm really confused by this string of FoS's. Can someone explain better?

[Guardian]

yeah, I'm tempted to agree with the concensus here, that Korlash is in no way implicated with Lloyd due to that claim, for obvious WIFOM reason

What consensus are you agreeing with? What is your position?

What exactly do you see as the relationship between Korlash and Lloyd?

and Guardian seemed to be building a case against him on it in Twilight, which worries me.

Why does that worry you?

[Guardian]

yeah, I'm tempted to agree with the concensus here, that Korlash is in no way implicated with Lloyd due to that claim, for obvious WIFOM reasons, and Guardian seemed to be building a case against him on it in Twilight, which worries me.

it too worries me fos guardian

Why?

[Guardian]

I would also like to

HoS:Guardian

for his action during twilight.

Why?

[Guardian]

Ok first off, I have great reason for my vote on the jester added to my own personal meta. Aside from a few jokes along the lines of "You should just vote jester now" I never really pushed his lynch all that much, just left my vote on him and tried to point out everything he did as scummy. You have to admit I was a little lazy in all of it.

So you're saying that you didn't try and derail the Lloyd wagon, instead you were lazy and didn't do much at all day 1, including avoiding and not commenting on the Lloyd wagon?

Secondly: Who started the bus korlash thing? Llyod? No guardian. Who was first to bring it up today? Guardian.

Indeed. What does this have to do with me being scum, or you being town? You seem to be just listing facts.

Who did I say had possibilities of being scum with llyod? Oh right... Guardian...

Who did I say had possibilities of being scum with Lloyd? Oh right... Korlash...

In short, Completly not-OMGUS but pretty accurately reasoned first to

Vote: Guardian

Um, no.

because he kept trying to derail the Llyod wagon(albeit weakly) by focusing on jester for absolutely no reason.

So you will now vote everyone voting Thantos yesterday then right? And the people who voted for tyhess... which was simply Guardian I believe...

Try again man...

Korlash, you're trying to have the facts both ways here. Who clearly supported the Lloyd lynch more -- me, or you?

Who pushed a case on the Jester all day and basically ignored Lloyd, and everything and anything else -- me, or you?

[Guardian]

my pick for today is

vote Thanatos

He came out of yesterday looking scummy

Why, in your own words? I agree he looked scummy (see my day one votes) but what are

your

reasons for thinking this?

[Guardian]

*goes to retrieve giftwrapped Preview button from Lloyd's body, hands it to Guardian* Five posts in a row? :?

Sometimes I find it effective to keep responses to individual people in separate posts.

I don't really like how Guardian played yesterday. It seems he pretty much flailed around wildly until he finally latched onto the guy with the biggest wagon, who did turn out to be scum and who essentially gave up at L-2. I'm not sure if that was good tactics, pure luck or a bus, but I don't like the fact that Guardian was very triggerhappy (read: votehappy) yesterday

Mixture of the first two ;).

but still failed to actually vote Lloyd, instead repeatedly expressing a desire to hammer. And not doing so when given the chance, I might add. What was your plan, Guardian?

Literally, like I said, to see if anyone wanted to discuss anything before a hammer. I was in no rush to hammer to 'prove I'm town' or anything.

As for the Lloyd-Korlash-bus-thing, it looks like WIFOM paradise to me. It's impossible to take it very seriously though; for one thing, Korlash wasn't even voting Lloyd at that point, so he must've felt VERY suicidal to drag a fellow scum with him... But yeah, WIFOM paradise. Who knows. IMO it's useless for case as well as defense.

Lloyd's post is a null tell. Analyzing Korlash's play, on the other hand, leads me to believe that Korlash and Lloyd are very possible scum partners, possibly with a side of Thatanos.

[Guardian]

So you're saying that you didn't try and derail the Lloyd wagon, instead you were lazy and didn't do much at all day 1, including avoiding and not commenting on the Lloyd wagon?

I did a lot day one.

Liar.

But none of it was about the Llyod wagon as I thought it was stupid. I didn't push Jester's lynch because I needed more then I had and he doesn't post all that much for me to throw out there.

Insufficient excuse.

Indeed. What does this have to do with me being scum, or you being town? You seem to be just listing facts.

yeah and this fact means a couple things. 1) Llyod didn't just decide to WIFOM and "bus hs partner", means you put the idea in his head.

Lloyd did this before I called him out on it....

Either your his partner and he thought tht was the direction you wanted him to go in, or he got the idea off you and ran with it.

The second one, maybe, is possible -- but that would mean he got the idea to bus you -- his partner -- you're scum.

Korlash, you're trying to have the facts both ways here. Who clearly supported the Lloyd lynch more -- me, or you?

Who pushed a case on the Jester all day and basically ignored Lloyd, and everything and anything else -- me, or you?

What does me going after the jester have to do with anything reguarding Llyod? What is this one of those "Oh I knew he was scum all day. See! I'm town!" things yoru going for? Bused your partner now you want a treat?

Korlash is flailing here guys. I never claimed I was auto-town for getting Lloyd, and I certainly didn't know he was scum all day -- I figured it out only at the very end.

Also I believe both your questions's answers are me as I clearly suported it more then you as I not only voted but hammered

You want townie cred for hammering your partner? You *clearly* supported it? That's laughable.

while you did neither.

More flailing. I supported it *before* lloyd claimed scum, you supported it *after* he claimed scum. Significant difference.

Literally, like I said, to see if anyone wanted to discuss anything before a hammer. I was in no rush to hammer to 'prove I'm town' or anything.

Your kinda pushing the fact thats your more likely town for just being on the wagon.

No.

Literally, like I said, to see if anyone wanted to discuss anything before a hammer. I was in no rush to hammer to 'prove I'm town' or anything.

Why? Because I hammered on scum while outing the other two? And what, throw Than in to gain support of the people on his wagon? Or simply you jumping on wagons again?

More flailing.

Anyone (besides Korlash) disagree?

He should be lynched, this is pretty obvious.

[Guardian]

Anyone (besides Korlash) disagree?

He should be lynched, this is pretty obvious.

Then why aren't you voting him?

That question is difficult to answer.

[Guardian]

Jester, for the love of all, why?

You're the fourth person to say it seems suspicious, and no one's been able to come within a shadow of articulating

why

.

[Guardian]

Why didn't you vote LLoyd?

but still failed to actually vote Lloyd, instead repeatedly expressing a desire to hammer. And not doing so when given the chance, I might add. What was your plan, Guardian?

Literally, like I said, to see if anyone wanted to discuss anything before a hammer. I was in no rush to hammer to 'prove I'm town' or anything.

[Guardian]

There's nothing there I can respond to; everything is in quotes because it is your unreasonable interpretation of my actions from the point of view that they must be scummy. I could re-write it in quotes from me-being-town perspective, if you'd like.

[Guardian]

If I wasn't 70% sure that you were scum, I'd probably be on Korlash still, but I'm just hoping he catchs a vig shot to the face so I don't have to waste another month pushing another lynch of someone who is soo ridiculously scummy.

I really don't see how you can reasonably think that my actions in getting Lloyd to claim scum can possibly outweigh all of Korlash actions. I'm frustrated, and literally stunned.

[Guardian]

I'm about ready to claim, I don't see any other way of diverting the suspicion from myself.

I literally can't understand the perspective of the ~5 people who have voted or FOS'd me. I can't respond because finding my actions suspicions is so far removed from what I see as reasonable and possible, I can't get myself to see your point of view.

I know logically that at least some of those finding me suspicious must be town, but I really can't fathom it, and don't have any idea how to proceed other than claiming.

[Guardian]

ebwop: If anyone has any major objections to me claiming, say so, otherwise I'll claim either right now or tomorrow, whichever you guys think is best.

[Guardian]

Because I can't argue with something I don't understand, and I shouldn't be lynched today, and Korlash should... and I don't see my claiming hurting much.

[Guardian]

Panzer, your paraphrasing is almost accurate:

"

All you guys

Korlash is

are

scummy and i can't possibly see anything i did that is remotely scummy, so pity me I give up, Can I

use my fake

claim now?"

[Guardian]

So, Guardian, you honestly believe that an about to be kynched scum obligingly pointed the finger at his scum partner, and you're going to take that at face value? Or did I miss something?

Yes, you're missing something. Lloyd's comments are a null tell. Korlash and Lloyd's previous actions aren't.

[Guardian]

I feel like it is best for me to claim right now, but whenever I see other players claim when there aren't large quantities of votes on them, I think they are playing very poorly.

However, I don't see how to move forward in my defense. Claiming is the last line of defense, and I can't figure how to move forward in defending myself without claiming.

[Guardian]

I've re-read today's posts, and I really don't understand. I don't find the suspicion of me intelligible. I'm not even talking about me thinking the suspicion isn't valid, I haven't gotten to the point where I can even comprehend it yet, so it is really really hard for me to respond in any significant manner.

I mean sure, I get you are saying my near end of day actions are suspicious. But as for why? Not getting through to me.

That's why I offered to claim; I don't know how to dissuade you of your suspicions in any other manner.

[Guardian]

Possibly, but does it have a lap bug?

lol, (s)he might just be feeling bad and not wanting to post. (s)he was on scumchat yesterday though I think .

[Guardian]

I think it was the best course of action for me to claim a few irl days ago. So I'll claim now.

I am Juan "Johnny" Rico of Star Ship Trooper fame. There is a significant quote from the movie that my drill sergeant told me that makes a lot of sense with the flavor of my role, but I am hesitant to repeat it for fear of breaking the rules.

I am a one shot day-vig. My vig ends the day if used. I may only vig under certain conditions. Korlash does not fulfill those conditions at present; if he did he'd be dead.

Now, please vote Korlash.

[Guardian]

Uh, see rule 8...

[Guardian]

Well, I can paraphrase: it is about if I don't vanquish the enemies, my squad trainer will end my life. You can extrapolate from there.

I've claimed my real role. If you guys want to not believe it and lynch me, I'm resigned to it at this point; Korlash's attempt at clarification isn't getting through my thick skull, and I really am quite frustrated by the large amount of suspicion on me that I just can't comprehend.

[Guardian]

I'm a little confused about the situations I can vig, even in asking Rosso Carne. It is a complicate flavor thing -- I can vig so long as someone is "incapacitated".

I asked Rosso what this meant, and he said it would be clear, like listed as a status, like "alive" or "dead". Since there wasn't anyone either day who was "incapacitated" that I can see, I must admit that I think I *could* be vanilla/a red herring, since I haven't seen a chance to day vig yet this game.

My role PM says I can only use the kill if the player is incapacitated, so I'm going to ask RC what that means; e.g. if I post kill: X, on a non-incapacitated player, if I lose my kill, or whatnot.

[Guardian]

Okay, that's two really reasonable posts recently by Korlash...

[Guardian]

fyi, Rosso Carne just responded; if I try Kill: X in bold, on someone who is not incapacitated, my kill will just be ignored.

I am debating the wisdom of trying Kill: X on every player or something; maybe incapacitated is a real status but not publicly revealed.

unvote

. Korlash's recent reasonableness is messing with my head.

[Guardian]

If I kill, my claim would be proven.

Not only that, killing anyone is greater than me being lynched. If I were at lynch -1, I'd likely try to kill everyone, as a last ditch effort to prove my claim and avoid being lynched.

I am confirmed town to myself. No one else is.

[Guardian]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Rico

[Guardian]

Until school's out (Early May), expect my dedication to mafiascum to suffer, perhaps greatly. Then I'll have little access at all for a week. Then I'll be back in full swing. I'm posting this notice in all games I'm playing; sorry if my activity suffers.

[Guardian]

Okay, that's two really reasonable posts recently by Korlash...

now Im confused. How is that. My last two posts were like "Guard claim" and "Rico is amazing <3" ... Now Im confused.. :(

I was referring to post 501 and 520.

501 was townlike because you appeared to be being reasonable and trying to get me to understand your suspicion.

520 was really reasonable because, as scum, I'd expect you to find some reason to not like the claim, whereas instead you found a reason to like it, and concede that you think it's a really good fake-claim or the real deal.

You also note and take issue with Oman's post asking you to claim, which feels town-like. Oman seemed to be asking for a claim quite prematurely; I was really the only one to express significant suspicion of you Korlash; there was no reason for you to claim at that point.

unvote

if I still am btw. Korlash, how do you do this to me. Why can't you just be consistently scummy; if you are town in this game I'll have to totally reevaluate my game-view :(.

[Guardian]

Panzer found the quote. Panzer, you could type it for everyone, so they know what it is.

Rico also says that quote in the movie. My PM says how the liutentant taught him well, then has the quote.

I think Rico would definitely kill helpess bugs (scum). I don't think the flavor is *particularly* fitting, but it is what it is.

[Guardian]

Upon getting the role, I was inspired to re-watch the movie.

Rico is indeed excellent, and day-viging is excellent. Incapacitated doesn't really fit in well, but it is what Rosso Carne told me. Note how I didn't include the bit about being incapacitated when I originally claimed; I don't think it particularly fits.

[Guardian]

[There is no reason town should ever leave something out when caliming.

This is patently untrue, fyi. Most of the rest of your post I agree with.

[Guardian]

I find the above vote bullshit, and very likely to come from scum.

Kill: WhoMe?

Did it work? Doubtful.

vote: WhoMe?

if not.

[Guardian]

This just in: It will be explicitly stated by Rosso Carne if someone ever gets the status "Incapacitated".

So right now, we can be assured that no one is incapacitated.

I can post kills all I want, but they won't do jack right now.

[Guardian]

If you think I'm making "incapacitated" up you're silly. That's all I'm saying.

[Guardian]

if u dont think that i dont think that you think, then you're overthinking.

[Guardian]

like ive said, rico surely is excellent.

incapacitated people... meh, I don't really find it that it fits; I don't disagree.

[Guardian]

I think the scums are WhoMe? and Korlash.

Is it possible that someone could be both scum and not scum? What about on an Austrian banknote?

I support this player and will follow him into battle.

Oman, lead is to victory, great one!

(I re-read the thread and my suspicions support the above, but possibly THATANOS instead of Korlash because Korlash makes a lot of SENSE, which surprises me.)

Whome? is a great lynch today.

[Guardian]

or my role could be a ]red herring

[Guardian]

unvote: Whome?
vote: Whome?

So I am following Oman into battle with the treacherous foe!

[Guardian]

Oman, what are our plans to lynch the treacherous scum, O fearless leader?

[Guardian]

Great O, I infer that you are thus pretty sure that Whome? has the best chance of being amidst the dastardly scum group. What makes you think this is so -- and how might we go about convincing others?

[Guardian]

Interseting.

I'd like to nail something down:

Dizzy, give me a percentage, how SURE are you he's fake claiming?

Is Panzer going to come up town, and then you're gonna be all "oh, but, um, I didn't

really

know

he was scum"?

[Guardian]

Thats enough for me. 95% is very serious.

Unvote Vote Panzer

We have scum in at least one of you.

Agreed; 95% is serious, and this sentiment is exactly why I asked.

Panzer, I'll let you respond, but if it isn't darn convincing, all my vote is belong to you.

[Guardian]

He might be excellently evil.

Who knows. I'm not going to speculate.

All I'm seeing is Panzer's contradiction.

[Guardian]

Hm. Panzer hasn't been on site since he'd claim, I'd like to hear his side, even though my gut is saying Dizzy's Correct.

Dizzy can confirm my claim too, which would be nice, if we want her to.

Discuss that^ -- do we want Dizzy to select a non-me role of her choosing, which has long run benefit, or to select me, because you still want to lynch me for some reason and Dizzy's confirming my role would assuage your doubt?

[Guardian]

OH.

HM. Panzer is saying he was warned in his role PM of a handicap having to do with Battlemage.

I could see there being a role that has Battlemage be the result when you're role cop'd, I forget where but I've seen fake results like that in the past (I've played in a game over AIM, for example, where the role name "Jesus" got the result "Extremely Stylish Bedoin") so these things are not completely unheard of.

I want to re-read Panzer's and Dizzy's past few posts with intense scrutiny to see if he's being consistent. My gut is now saying that he is though.

I like my vote where it is for the time being.

[Guardian]

That's why I'm only saying I'm 95% certain he's scum, because there's a possibility that a) he's some kind of Miller (which I suppose is the minimum handicap you'd expect for such a highly powered character) and b) that I might have sanity issues.

I find a) probable, and b) as not explaining this situation. I am beginning to think I find a) more probable than not a), and that Panzer's town, and you're town Dizzy, despite being incorrectly 95% sure.

Against this is the difference in tone between his original reaction to me bringing up Battlemage, which indicated some level of certainty and prompted a full claim, and his eventual claim in which he referred to a handicap that he assumed had something to do with Battlemage.

Well wait, while he didn't say he was told he had a handicap that had to do with Battlemage, explicitly, he did strongly hint at such a handicap in 577. You mentioning Battlemage was enough to make him claim, he thought you might know more.

HM. Panzer is saying he was warned in his role PM of a handicap having to do with Battlemage.

No. He's saying this:

I didn't think she was cop until she said Batttlemage then I started thinking, her previous reaction with the Battlemage thing(who is regarded as unexcellent) started me thinking.

I didn't know what the handicap was(could have been anything)

but it makes sense that bad results are given for me seeing I have a ridiculous ability if I make it that long.

...which is completely different.

How is that completely different? He knew the handicap had to do with Battlemage, but that his Battlemage-handicap could have been anything.

He might have thought previously that there was a scum named Battlemage who if he targeted him at night he'd die, or that if 'Battlemage' died he'd die also.

I dunno, I find Panzer to be legit. And you can't forget his D1 play pushing the Lloyd wagon.

Also, if he were scum and his role name were Battlemage, I think he could have come up with some Battlemage pro-town role. Granted, many don't like Battlemage, but that seems a lot easier to pull than this story.

[Guardian]

I've been silent to allow Panzer to make his own defense; but I am still of the position that he should not be lynched.

[Guardian]

by everyone else, who dy'u mean?

[Guardian]

For the record:

I don't strongly disagree with Whome?, in that if I am investigated, that would clear any doubts about me, since I claimed my role name before I knew there was a role name detector.

So if I were investigated, you'd have to think Rico was scum, or I am town. Rico is so obviously not scum, so.

I still oppose a Panzer lynch but... eh I can see the other side of the coin too.

I find Whome? scummy for reasons independent of his suggesting the doc investigate me. I'd still like to see a Whome? wagon.

[Guardian]

Posts 544 & 545 are why I find Whome? very suspicious.

Also his time-lapse day 1.

[Guardian]

One thing I'll say though:

Lynching Panzer will get him out of the picture. Sometimes lynching the most popularly thought of as scummy player has great advantages in that they won't be an elephant in the room.

So even if we got compromise and lynched someone else, there's no way the scum are gonna kill Panzer, just because so many disbelieve him.

Hmph. I don't think Panzer should be disbelieved.

[Guardian]

why do you think so panzer?

[Guardian]

VC hasn't changed at all.

{1} WhoMe? (Guardian)

{1} Guardian (The Jester)

{3} Panzerjager (DizzyIzzyB13, WhoMe?, Oman)

[Guardian]

Korlash, you pressed pretty hard for The Jester yesterday, do you think he's still the lynch today?

No, But I still think he is scum.

Who, then? Panzer?

Guardian: You missed that Panzer is now voting WhoMe? in your inofficial votecount.

Unvote, WhoME

That doesn't seem like a vote to me.

[Guardian]

If Panzer is indeed scum, maybe Izzy really should investigate me, because it would confirm me, and I have defended the heck out of Panzer .

If Panzer is scum, I think Jester's above post appears strongly that Jester was late to the bus, and Korlash was right all along...

I still think Panzer isn't scum. I think 'fools' was a genuinely frustrated townie. Why does my explanation of how he could be town not make sense?

[Guardian]

The above product and/or service is defective.

[Guardian]

Panzer you sound a lot like scum in the above post :\.

[Guardian]

If Panzer's scum, if there is a doc, protect izzy, and izzy investigate me.

I totally have over-defended panzer if he's scum.

I'm still thinking he's town even with his latish odd actions.

(shrug)

[Guardian]

HoS: Jester

, start putting

logically sound

reasons/points in your posts or don't post at all

[Guardian]

Jester, none of my stances have really changed, except that I am beginning to find you suspicious. None of my stances have really been adequately responded to.

You might have benefited from reading over my posts before tacitly accusing me of not giving reasons.


Why Panzer's town:

That's why I'm only saying I'm 95% certain he's scum, because there's a possibility that a) he's some kind of Miller (which I suppose is the minimum handicap you'd expect for such a highly powered character) and b) that I might have sanity issues.

I find a) probable, and b) as not explaining this situation. I am beginning to think I find a) more probable than not a), and that Panzer's town, and you're town Dizzy, despite being incorrectly 95% sure.

Against this is the difference in tone between his original reaction to me bringing up Battlemage, which indicated some level of certainty and prompted a full claim, and his eventual claim in which he referred to a handicap that he assumed had something to do with Battlemage.

Well wait, while he didn't say he was told he had a handicap that had to do with Battlemage, explicitly, he did strongly hint at such a handicap in 577. You mentioning Battlemage was enough to make him claim, he thought you might know more.

HM. Panzer is saying he was warned in his role PM of a handicap having to do with Battlemage.

No. He's saying this:

I didn't think she was cop until she said Batttlemage then I started thinking, her previous reaction with the Battlemage thing(who is regarded as unexcellent) started me thinking.

I didn't know what the handicap was(could have been anything)

but it makes sense that bad results are given for me seeing I have a ridiculous ability if I make it that long.

...which is completely different.

How is that completely different? He knew the handicap had to do with Battlemage, but that his Battlemage-handicap could have been anything.

He might have thought previously that there was a scum named Battlemage who if he targeted him at night he'd die, or that if 'Battlemage' died he'd die also.

I dunno, I find Panzer to be legit. And you can't forget his D1 play pushing the Lloyd wagon.

Also, if he were scum and his role name were Battlemage, I think he could have come up with some Battlemage pro-town role. Granted, many don't like Battlemage, but that seems a lot easier to pull than this story.

Why Whome?'s scum:

Posts 544 & 545 are why I find Whome? very suspicious.

Also his time-lapse day 1.

Why Jester's scum:
If Panzer is scum, Janzer's post felt like scum hopping on his partner's sinking ship, to get some town cred out of it.

[Guardian]

I have an amazing propensity for getting scum to claim, it seems....

Not going to get outdone this time.

vo...

Wait.

Jester?

Battlemage?

Jester?

Battlemage?

He'd self hammer then, though.

Yeah.

vote: Panzerjager

[Guardian]

so you were a fscking jester? no way.

[Guardian]

Your play was nothing like a jester.

If you were congrats.

If there was a jester in a mini.... :\

[Guardian]

The mod is a lie!
The mod is a lie!
The mod is a lie!

[Guardian]

unvote vote: Panzerjager

he was lynched.

[Guardian]

Last week of final exams; I'm not allowing myself to check the site from now until I am done with this semester's work. 1 week. I shouldn't be missed...

[Guardian]

this is ridiculous. panzer's been lynched for >2 weeks.

abandon?

[Guardian]

PM'ing MeMe...

[Guardian]

I PM'd Rosso a copy of what I sent to MeMe. It is pretty frustrating to have to wait eons for a simple role reveal.

[Guardian]

The Jester was 100% the last scum. I re-read, and Lloyd assumed Korlash had role based info that Jester was scum. I could have persuaded y'all of this, I am right and had good reasons for thinking so.

Town win if I'm not NK'd.

Good game Rosso, sorry V/LA hurt it.

[Guardian]

who was scum then?

[Guardian]

lol okay, thanks, that was a major confidence shaker.

I was 100% sure, but except to laugh, you had no reason to lie after so I believed you .