Open 74 - C/9ths (Game Over!) before 601

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Vote: iron man.

Iron man's contributions to day 1 were telling people to calm down, bandwagoning el, bandwagoning, and saying he was concerned about making a slip that would get him lynched.

[Mokina]

I agree with TSN... Iron Man has been showing a pattern of lurking.

Previous impulsive votes on my part have not gone so well, but I would be willing to vote for Iron Man if he does not contribute. Pick up the posting, please.

Same goes for mike-zim. Sideney has gotten better about it, which is good.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Its not just the lurking, its the lurking plus the bandwagoning plus the being concerned about making slips.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

TSN makes a good point, i agree, although I am not ready to leave mokina, you seems so easily swayed or distracted, you decided someone is scummy, then someone comes and makes a case on someone else, you agree, and change your mind nearly instantly without asking for a post of proof or a reason in some cases (see Lowell bandwagon on D1 for One example.)

Being indecisive isn't scummy, but being an opportunist is.

I will look back into Iron Man... as for now the FoS stays on Mokina.

[Elmo]

Day 2, Vote Count #1

Mokina <- Eldritch Lord
Iron Man <- TheSweatpantsNinja

Not Voting: Mokina, Iron Man, ZombieSlayer54, DarlaBlueEyes, sideney, donkeyz12212, mike-zim, Lowell.

[Eldritch Lord]

FoS: Lowell, Mike-Zim

Come out of hiding please.

It is my belief that after reading Darla and Mokina I have determined that Mokina the better lynch of the two. Darla's frustration due to Mokina's hammer was shared by myself and is relatively understandable (if unwarranted), but still slightly suspicious.

The vote she carried for me all of Day 1 seems more a mesh of bad PR on my part and her own insistence that I HAD to be scum. This suspicion has gone quiet, and I'm interested to hear what Darla's reasoning is regarding her recently lack of hatred towards myself.

Mokina, you unexpectedly hammered on Dcorbe after specifically stating you were NOT going to hammer. Your justification in post 434 is simply not enough to convince me--explain why there was a super-sudden change of heart.

[Mokina]

Mokina, you unexpectedly hammered on Dcorbe after specifically stating you were NOT going to hammer. Your justification in post 434 is simply not enough to convince me--explain why there was a super-sudden change of heart.

I don't really think of it as a change of heart... I simply forgot I'd promised it to the town and did a reread of dcorbe's posting. And everyone had a different, valid argument. It was page 17, and he was the first viable lynch I'd seen all day.

It was also very late.

It's hard to explain something like this once you've seen the cardflip, but to be honest it was a mistake on my part. With regards to the accusations of scumminess, I strongly doubt the mafia would have cast the last vote D1. Cry WIFOM if you like, but a scum wouldn't hammer the one person who flagged them as protown on the first day. That's just ridiculous.

Vote: Lowell

for opportunistic voting, a case that was first presented by mike-zim, another lurker but one who comes across as cautious town rather than "below the radar" scum, given his voting record.

[Mokina]

Unvote, Vote: Iron Man

Wrong lurker, my apologies.

[Eldritch Lord]

I approve of pressure on Iron Man.

Unvote

Vote: Iron Man

FoS: Mokina

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Iron Man has been acting out of the typical townie norm, and I re-read his posts, an TBH he just seems new. Maybe he is lurking cos he doesn't know how to handle being scum, idk, but I have a sneaky suspicion he will come up town or at least not scum.

EL, I haven't lost track of my suspicion on you, but if you review my posts on D1 I felt MOkin might be your partner, and her hammer and lame excuse, and trying to get the attention off herself, and voting Iron man, well I am just more inclined to think I have a higher chance of hitting scum with her than you.

vote:Mokina

reviewed yesterday, and I don't like it.

[donkeyz12212]

I don't know if Iron Man is the right vote. It just doesn't make sense to me to target someone who hasn't been vocal but then again, do scum really lurk a lot? I don't really know the answer to that yet but I am really comfortable with voting Mokina for her hammer.

That was one of the more suspicious acts I've seen so far. And she was a suspect in the last round as well.

[Eldritch Lord]

I don't know if Iron Man is the right vote. It just doesn't make sense to me to target someone who hasn't been vocal but then again, do scum really lurk a lot? I don't really know the answer to that yet but I am really comfortable with voting Mokina for her hammer.

That was one of the more suspicious acts I've seen so far. And she was a suspect in the last round as well.

This is true, however, I would like more contribution from Iron Man, and if he fails to contribute, would not mind running the risk of him coming up Town.

My FoS remains strong on Mokina, however.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

This is true, however, I would like more contribution from Iron Man, and if he fails to contribute,

would not mind running the risk of him coming up Town.

See Bold for why Is still think you are scum. Not minind if someone comes up town is SCUMMY! EL seriously, do you think before you say stuff?

thats like blaring sirens and holding up a sign that says I'm scum. Call it a freudian slip if you wish, but I stick with my Mokina/EL scum pair, with an off chance TSN is, as he avoided the EL wagon and ignored the Mokina situation. but TSN isn't very provable



i

[Eldritch Lord]

This is true, however, I would like more contribution from Iron Man, and if he fails to contribute,

would not mind running the risk of him coming up Town.

See Bold for why Is still think you are scum. Not minind if someone comes up town is SCUMMY! EL seriously, do you think before you say stuff?

thats like blaring sirens and holding up a sign that says I'm scum. Call it a freudian slip if you wish, but I stick with my Mokina/EL scum pair, with an off chance TSN is, as he avoided the EL wagon and ignored the Mokina situation. but TSN isn't very provable



i

Read: I would rather lynch a non-productive Town than a productive member of Town any day. Look at it this way, neither of us can PROVE Mokina is scum, what we have is intuition and circumstantial evidence. This is a game of shades of gray, not absolutes. I was entertaining the idea that both may, possibly be Town.

Unlike you, Darla, I do not deal in black and white and acknowledge that my reasoning sometimes has errors. Less of the high horse, please.

[Eldritch Lord]

I agree with TSN here, if he can't be NK'd or 'Can't' be, and his play is this erratic and unpredictable, its a danger for the town.

In my mind I would lynch only three people today in this order:

EL
Dcorbe
Mokina

I'd be willing to hammer, but I would like one last defense from dcorbe.

Am I wrong here when I say that it seems you are essentially saying the same thing you're attacking me for. Standard psychological model says: "Looks for their own tells!"

You're racking up points here, Darla.

[Iron Man]

I'm seriously not getting how people are jumping me for "opprotunism"? I had a bit of a feeling that dcorbe was scum. So, I went out and threw a vote. An argument was being built, and I started a vote. At that point, dcorbe wasnt at L-1 or anything, so I'm not seeing any opprotunism here.

However, Mokina, hammering dcorbe just screams opprotunism. You start by saying that you arent going to hammer him and will wait for a few days for him to post a defence, then you hammer him a day later. This seems WAY more opprotunistic than what I did.

[Mokina]

OMGUS.

However, Mokina, hammering dcorbe just screams opprotunism.

My hammer doesn't make sense for a townie, okay. We get it. I think what the town has forgotten to ask itself is... "does Mokina make sense as scum?" Call it an insensitivity tell, but it's ridiculous to claim it as a sensible scum move. And in any case, what was dcorbe going to say to absolve the suspcions we had against him? Would you have listened to anything he said? He'd made a vanilla claim; what more were you expecting?

Hey, I didn't agree with the rest of the town that he should have that one last token post. Forgive me.

...and trying to get the attention off herself.

I agree with EL's high horse impression. Hell,

you've

tried to get attention off yourself in the past. Face it; everyone wants to get the attention off themselves when they are held under scrutiny. Nobody wants to get lynched. I honestly do believe that Iron Man has at the very least been failing to contribute to the town.

thats like blaring sirens and holding up a sign that says I'm scum. Call it a freudian slip if you wish

You

are

calling it a Freudian slip. We've already decided that they can't be trusted; remember when my case against EL was shut down?

[Eldritch Lord]

You are calling it a Freudian slip. We've already decided that they can't be trusted; remember when my case against EL was shut down?

:goodposting:

Darla, I can see you pushing Dcorbe's lynch with an FoS, and even offering to hammer. It was kind of as though you were pushing his wagon without actually casting your vote, perhaps you just found me more scummy, probably a null-tell. Still, I'm forced to wonder how you miss the parts where I successfully refute the joint case Mokina and you had against me.

I've got my eye on you, Darla.

Iron Man's OMGUS on Mokina seems even more scummy than before, I'm going to need more than that one slip to justify your inability to contribute content.

The way I see it, Iron Man has made fewer 'mistakes' than Mokina, but this is only because he's remained off of the scumdar. The second he gets onto it, he throws an OMGUS post at Mokina. So though, technically, Mokina has made more slip-ups (read: has a higher chance of being scum) this higher number of slip-ups could simply be biproducts of over-posting (something I've been guilty of this game), overthinking, and rehashing/rethinking; Iron Man, if he had contributed the kind of content he has been as often as Mokina has, would probably have been prime lynch suspect for me on Day 1.

Thus, I feel if you were to extrapolate their number of mistakes/amount of scumminess in ratio to his number of posts to an intersection, you would find Iron Man far scummier.

This is where the Black/White DBE part kicks in, I've done some meta-work on you Darla, you seem nice to those who are nice to you--but can be utterly vindictive to those who aren't. The thing is, you are like my friend Josh, he refuses to see superior reasoning simply because it is not his own unless you sugar coat it so that it seems like it was them who inspired you to your superior reasoning. I urge you to think of it this way, however, I believe that Mokina is 55% Scummy, whereas Iron Man is only 30% scummy. If Iron Man continued this kind of posting/contribution to the frequency Mokina has, I would put him at about 45-50% scummy. The choice seems obvious, no? Wrong, though Mokina has behaved in a scummier manner, the difference between the two percentages is not enough to justify a vote: We must consider usefulness. Until recently, no one has been suspicious of Iron Man and his votes have gone for the most part, unnoticed--if he survives (and is scum) and we continue to treat him in such a manner he will be far more dangerous than Mokina, if she is indeed scum there are many (if not all players) who have been/are suspicious and wary of her advice--so she would be less effective as scum. Here comes the Townie part, if they are both Townie then lynching the less productive of the two is worth the small decline in scumcentage (You see what I did there?). If they are both scum, then either lynch will be acceptable--which is something I've kind of hinted at before.

Small note, in relation to us being suspicious of Mokina--you seem to buy her advice very willingly on Day 1. I urge all those who may disagree with this statement to re-read all of Day 1, particularly the part where I sat at L-1.

Still, I am wary of TSN--Dcorbe warned us in his last post (after Mokina hammered) that TSN had been leading scumcharges and looking back, I can kind of see that, but this may just be the "too townie" fallacy.

Darla: +30% Scum.
Your convictions do not a Townie make, you pushed other wagons while sitting on mine, quite often a safe distance away from the action. Unvoting me was, as you said, a temporary measure, and you seemed to have assured that you could still hammer if someone else picked up my vote. I must say, if you are scum, you are quite clever scum--and perhaps such an elaborate ruse is a stretch. But I'm a stretcher, a mover, and a shaker--I look forward to seeing where this leads.

(I will be V/LA until Wednesday 11 p.m.--If I post it will be through sheer luck that I found free time between exams and work [ugh!])

[Eldritch Lord]

...and trying to get the attention off herself.

I agree with EL's high horse impression. Hell,

you've

tried to get attention off yourself in the past. Face it; everyone wants to get the attention off themselves when they are held under scrutiny. Nobody wants to get lynched. I honestly do believe that Iron Man has at the very least been failing to contribute to the town.

This is also :goodposting:

This is the way I look at it, as a Pro-Town player, I want the Town to win. However, I cannot play this game the same way on the forums as I do in real life. First of all, I lose a ton of my meaning and magnitude (along with attractiveness, if I may say so myself *slicks hair back*) going from RL to text. Furthermore, this isn't like an RL game where it lasts an hour and you can sit and talk to your dead friends and have fun not in the game; once you're dead, you're out and you've "lost" the game. Even though your ultimate objective is for Town to win, if you die it becomes kind of pointless (there is hardly any bragging rights to be had on the internet) and you will likely never return to the thread except maybe to have some detached or "I-told-you-so" connection to the outcome.

Defending yourself in this game is justifiable--no one wants to die and be essentially removed from a group of people they feel close to for possibly months while the game finishes. (Note: Yes, I am aware that is the objective of the game, but that doesn't mean people will want to go.) Yes, I feel like you guys are cool--even if we disagree in game. And if I die, I will be sad to go seeing how as these games usually take months to move on. It's like I've always said IRL: The quickest way to meeting new friends is through a game of Mafia; it's part of the reason I love the game, it forces you to establish emotional/close connections with others. I play this game for more than learning new vocabulary (ooo, straw-mannnnnn) or practicing logic--I play it to get to know people (both IRL and now, thanks in part to several friends of mine who are frequent forum'ers, online).

/shrug--Just a newbie's take on defending yourself.

TL;DR Version: I want to stay alive in any given game, but especially online, since the stakes are if you lose you are removed from a game and by lesser extension your "friends" (can I call you guys friends?) for months [unless you're in another game with them]. Wanting to stay alive is totally justifiable imho.

That post wound up way longer than I meant it to be, goodnight and for a couple days, goodbye guys.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I think el, mokina, and darla are probably all town. I think iron man is scum.

I'm seriously not getting how people are jumping me for "opprotunism"? I had a bit of a feeling that dcorbe was scum. So, I went out and threw a vote. An argument was being built, and I started a vote. At that point, dcorbe wasnt at L-1 or anything, so I'm not seeing any opprotunism here.

However, Mokina, hammering dcorbe just screams opprotunism. You start by saying that you arent going to hammer him and will wait for a few days for him to post a defence, then you hammer him a day later. This seems WAY more opprotunistic than what I did.

You also seemed to have a bit of a feeling el was scum back when el was the leading candidate. In fact, all the people who you seemed to have a bit of feeling for were leading wagons. That's a little unusual.

Then there's the deflection: 'OMG mokina is worse she hammered!' This is why I don't think mokina's hammer is particularly scummy: what's her motivation as scum? Why would she, as scum,

say

she was going to let dcorbe defend himself and then hammer? I can't really see that as some sort of master plan. So whether mokina is scum or town, it smells like a genuine slip to me.

[Iron Man]

@TSN
I never stated that I thought Mokina was scum I actually think she is town. However, what I am stating is that I dont think I should be getting jacked for opprotumism when I dont exactly see a crime was commitd on my part.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

lol EL; ok, make up your mind please, first off you disagree with Mokina, she restates the same crap logic's glamourized and you "goodposting: her. Now I will say some of her posts above had viable points, but IMO you were congratulating her attack on me, which you seem unable to create yourself. You simply 'urge' others to look at me, versus, make a case.

I could take this as OMGUS from either one of you or not, and TBH I don't like TSN's play, and I just know I will die soon, because i can feel myself on a trail here, so I am saying it now, for when/if I die and this game is over, our scum is in the Mokina/El/TSN group one or the other may not be But I'd bet a lot at least two of them are.

TSN: what makes you SO convinced neither Mokina or EL are scum? Yesterday you didn't even comment on the case I brought forth, only said you thought he was town, and voted someone else.

If you have a viable reason other than 'thinking they are town' I'd love to hear it.

If I am correct with my whole Mokina/EL or TSN thing Im pretty much going it alone against the scum here. I know Lowell is VLA for a bit and some of you are new, but come on guys, I am not exactly a vet, I am still new and could use some more eyes and minds looking at the evidence at hand.

[Elmo]

Day 2, Vote Count #2

Iron Man (3) <- TheSweatpantsNinja, Mokina, Eldritch Lord
Mokina <- DarlaBlueEyes

Not Voting: Iron Man, ZombieSlayer54, sideney, donkeyz12212, mike-zim, Lowell.

ZombieSlayer54, mike-zim, Lowell, and sideney have been prodded.

[Lowell]

I'm back. I'll try to catch up, but it's possible it'll be another 2 days or so. Apologies, all.

[ZombieSlayer54]

I am HERE! Just lurking my ass off, to be completely honest.

To be completely honest, I am slightly conflicted on the Iron Man wagon right now.

I somewhat think the people on there are looking for a quicklynch.

However, Iron Man has done little, if anything, to defend himself.

Therefore, for now,

FoS IronMan

.

I am watching you.