Nice post, Poker. I should have time a little later tonight to weigh in on what you say about everyone else, but while I have a few free minutes now I'll just respond to what you've said regarding me.
What I think is strange is that a "no avatar" wagon formed in the first place. That wasn't my intent - earlier in the game I asked Grimmy to get an avatar too, and I didn't and still don't really see how not having an avatar is a scum tell in any way. One of the strangest things is the difference between how people reacted to Grimmy not having an av and dcorbe not having one. Check it out:
Me (44) wrote:
Grimmy - why no avatar?
Rishi (45) wrote:
He finds them suspicious.
Mr Blonde (47) wrote:
I think it goes beyond that. Avatars find Grimmy suspicious.
Just a few jokes, etc, no votes. Now dcorbe, same question to start it off:
Me (55) wrote:dcorbe - why no avatar?
Surye (56) wrote:Oh my, another San Diego scummer. Unvote, Vote: dcorbe
Note: I don't think Surye's vote was related to the avatar issue, but nonetheless it's the first after my post so I feel its necessary to mention it. Moving on:
Mr Blonde (57) wrote:obvious scumtell
This is in response to my "dcorbe, why no avatar?" post.
Sidebar - I meant to ask you, Blonde, whether this comment was aimed at me or dcorbe. Either way I don't really follow how its a scumtell and I assume you're joking, as you did when I asked Grimmy to get one.
So far, the reaction seems to be pretty similar to when Grimmy didn't have an avatar. Then this happens:
Mr Blonde (60) wrote:
Unvote
Vote: dcorbe
for not voting anybody
...and the bandwagon begins.
Rishi (65) wrote:Actually, I play in a lot of newbie games as an IC. I'd say that 90% of them will get an avatar if asked.
Unvote, Vote: dcorbe
Farside (68) wrote:Someone needs to join a newbie game me thinks.
unvote:
vote: dcorbe
Those two votes seem incredibly opportunistic to me. Rishi
actually
seems to be voting dcorbe for
not having an avatar
and Farside claims we were getting good info out of that bandwagon, to which I said:
Me wrote:The only real conversation coming out of that BW is "why are you voting me because I don't have an avatar" which is a totally reasonable question.
It was a bizarre bandwagon - those last two votes seemed to have been placed as "middle of the road" votes, which after a lynch don't seem as important as the first or last, making it appealing for scum to place them, especially if there's a readily available excuse.
Anyways, as far as me playing both sides of the fence, I think you're talking about this post:
I'm gonna have to FoS: Rishi as well.
However, I agree with what rofl has said thus far regarding dcorbe (who, when he's trying to be very sincere, uses his real name in his posts, apparently ^^^), especially this:
rofl wrote:
dcorbe wagon is being ridden by scum, methinks
As such, unvote, vote: farside.
I'm actually talking about two different issues here, but it's poorly worded. I agreed with dcorbe that Rishi was pushing the wagon oppurtunistically (I actually stupidly FoS'd him while my vote was still on him from the random stage
which he was keen to point out) but I also agreed with rofl that dcorbe's wagon was being ridden by scum. The way the initial post reads makes it seem like I'm saying I agree with rofl that dcorbe isn't scummy, but what I really meant to say was that rofl was right in that scum were probably riding dcorbe's wagon. Therefore I put my vote on farside - so in the post i express my suspicion of both farside and Rishi, and accidentally make it seem like I'm not suspicious of dcorbe. Which, as evidenced by my more recent posts, I obviously am. Keep in mind that we're dealing with two scum teams here - Rishi and Farside could be teammates OR be on separate factions - one could even be teammates with dcorbe - either way, those are my three biggest suspects right now.
Poker wrote:
Here is what I don't like about Icemane's response to the claim
icemanE wrote:
farside22 wrote:
Well at L-1 all I have is my claim as town. At least lynching me no power roles are revealed, which gives the scum nothing but guessing for the night. I don't think I'm reaching. Please look at those who were on my wagon. I don't think my vote against dcorbe is wrong. I say look at him tomorrow.
Hmm... I initially glanced over this post, but look back at it I'm actually sort of inclined to believe it. Though scum often say something like "I'm just a townie so at least we aren't losing anyone important", the "look at the people on my wagon, especially dcorbe" part of the message sort of hits home. That last piece of the message would hold no water if farside turned up scum, and farside seems to sort of concede instead of getting overly defensive and fighting back. Her comments about the offtopic bar discussion and wide-reaching suspicions are still suspect, but, at least for the time being, I'm going to believe the claim.
unvote
Overdefensiveness is not a direct scum tell. There was a mafia discussion thread about that awhile back and if i find the link later on I will post it in the thread. In my 'current' opinion overdefensiveness can only become a scumtell if it reaches the point where the player's responses and attacks come off as OMGUS every other post. OMGUS is a scum tell, but overdefensiveness certainly isn't.
Hmm... another poorly worded post on my part, it seems.
Note: Mod, it looks like the quote might not format properly, if there's an issue would you mind correcting it? I don't see quote tags inside my quote to denote the quoted passage inside it. Thanks.
What I mean to say in the post is essentially this: farside's claim seems more town than other claims I've seen. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a valid claim, but without a deadline in sight, there's no reason to rush a kill, so for now, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt as there are many other subjects to investigate and at least three more scum to find.
The whole overdefensiveness bit doesn't really correlate to what I tried to get across - I only mention overdefensiveness because she DIDN'T do it, so Poker, a mafia theory question: Do you mean to say that the LACK of overdefensiveness, which is what I point out in the post, is a town tell, a scum tell, or a null tell? I couldn't quite tell from the post, because you point out that overdefenisiveness, which her post lacks, is not a scum tell, but you also say you don't buy the claim. In that sense, if she HAD been overdefensive would the claim look any different to you, or would you be just as suspicious of it?
Anywho, thanks.
