California Trilogy - Going to San Francisco (Game Over!)

[Gaspar]

*sigh*

Well, at least I know you're more likely "Incredibly Dense" as opposed to "Scum."

I already explained why Xtox is not SCAPE. And no, it had nothing to do with him calling me protown.

I've already explained how this makes him more likely to be (though not necessarily automatically) protown.

Simple observation has led me to believe that there is a 99.5% chance that he is protown.

[MichelSableheart]

Reading the discussion from page 33 onward. It didn't give the amount of info I hoped it would, though.

MBL's main argument against Gaspar is a general accusation of carelessness. Even though he is correct in that accusation, I don't think it can be concluded from that that Gaspar is scum. The only reason for Gaspar scum to be careless with the truthfulness of his suspicions would be if a lack of time prevented him to do more thorough research. But exactly the same argument works for Gaspar town having a lack of time. If Gaspar is scum, he isn't SCAPE, and he's partners with Xtoxm. I don't think it's likely he's scum though.

The main argument against MBL is that he's vague about the reasons for his suspicions, using strong languages to make accusations when the evidence doesn't nearly support that amount of conviction. I mostly agree with this; it seems he used roughly the same tactic against OGML.

Currently, I'm willing to support the lynches of MBL, Rogueben, Vollkan and Xtoxm.

Unvote

Vote:

MrBuddyLee

, Rogueben, Vollkan, Xtoxm, Thesp, destructor, curiouskarmadog, NabNab, Gaspar, {IH, Sarcastro}, Mr. Grey, No Lynch, MichelSableheart

[Mr. Grey]

Deadline:

Approximately 65.5 hours from this post.

Vote Count:

6 to lynch.

MrBuddyLee: 2 (MichelSableheart, vollkan)
NabakovNabakov: 2 (destructor, Gaspar)
vollkan: 2 (Thesp, Xtoxm)
Gaspar: 1 (MrBuddyLee)
Xtoxm: 1 (curiouskarmadog)

Current Condorcet Winner:

vollkan

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put this information in this form.

[NabakovNabakov]

@CKD: Yeah, that was an oversight on my part, but the same principle applies. Saying "This living player is this allignment because this living player might be this allignment" is going way out on a limb. Do you think Gaspar is scum? Do you think there's a legitimate threat of his being lynched? Shouldn't you know by now Xtoxm is irrational by habit?

You don't have to have read everything to be able to get involved in the game.

I agree with NN's stance on that.

The thing is, if you look at Destructor's Posts, you'll see that even as he reads parts of the game,

HE IS INVOLVED

.

I think NN's taking a potshot (and a pretty bad one, at that) at Destructor.

I would argue that his involvement (restricted almost entirely to the beginning of today) has been fairly limited, and coincidentally, pertaining mainly to analyzing wagons that have already ended. If you were going to mischaracterize my actions, OMGUS would have been a better term anyway.

As of now, I'm not gunning for destructor's lynch*, but I think it would be

helpful to the town

if he somehow found a way to get his ass in gear, considering on a personal note, that this is the second (third?) he's voted for me from a perspective that's out of context.

*Dear Vollkan, Where did I threaten destructor? Sincerely, NabNab

[curiouskarmadog]

*sigh*

Well, at least I know you're more likely "Incredibly Dense" as opposed to "Scum."

I already explained why Xtox is not SCAPE. And no, it had nothing to do with him calling me protown.

I've already explained how this makes him more likely to be (though not necessarily automatically) protown.

Simple observation has led me to believe that there is a 99.5% chance that he is protown.

well, thanks for the insult...feel better?...note your attempt to discredit.

just because you dont think that X is not scape does not mean that he is not scum..again why are you so sure X is not scum? why cant X be part of a different scum team?

Also I note that you didn’t address this statement at all….

Gaspar, I am not sure I understand WHY you are obviously protown..I am pretty sure I have seen you before state you were obviously protown and flip mafia Godfather (might be worth a check).

Any thoughts on this? Why are you obviously protown? Have you ever been scum and called yourself obviously protown or anything of the like?

@CKD: Yeah, that was an oversight on my part, but the same principle applies. Saying "This living player is this allignment because this living player might be this allignment" is going way out on a limb. Do you think Gaspar is scum? Do you think there's a legitimate threat of his being lynched? Shouldn't you know by now Xtoxm is irrational by habit?

What exactly was an oversight…your theory about X? and I am not saying anyone is (alignment) because someone else is (alignment)..I have a problem with X saying he doesn’t see a case against Gasper, and will vote anyone else to avoid that lynch….problem is, he doesn’t mention that that person must have a case against them. So he doesn’t want to vote Gaspar because there is no case, but has no problem lynching ANYONE (his words) else. Do I think Gaspar is scum? Maybe..but X’s statements are making me question it. Who being lynched? Gaspar?...I don’t think I would call it a “threat”…but it could be a possibility. I have no reason to think that X is irrational.

[Rogueben]

I can fully understand Xtoxm's position on Gaspar. My read on him in this game is very protown. I see the MBL case as very weak and as I have said before based more out of a metaOMGUS than anything else.

CKD's continual push against Gaspar and Xtoxm worries me because they are the two people I think are most likely to be protown.

NN's attack against destructor seems opportunistic to me.

Vote: NabakovNabakov

, curiouskarmadog, MichelSableheart, MrBuddyLee, destructor, Vollkan, Thesp, Xtoxm, Gaspar, No Lynch, Rogueben

[Gaspar]

just because you dont think that X is not scape does not mean that he is not scum..

I already explained why Xtox is not SCAPE. And no, it had nothing to do with him calling me protown.

I've already explained how this makes him more likely to be

(though not necessarily automatically)

protown.

Note the underlined part. I FUCKING KNOW THAT NONSCAPE DOES NOT EQUATE TO PROTOWN. FURTHER OBSERVATION HAS LED ME TO BELIEVE THAT HE IS PROTOWN.

again why are you so sure X is not scum? why cant X be part of a different scum team?

IF I HAVEN'T TOLD YOU BY NOW WHY HE IS PROTOWN, YOU CAN BET THAT I AM NOT WILLING TO TELL YOU WHY HE IS PROTOWN.

Jesus balls. I can't tell if you're fishing or what, but I've made my stance clear, and I've made it quite apparent that I'm not elaborating on it further at this time.

Gaspar, I am not sure I understand WHY you are obviously protown..I am pretty sure I have seen you before state you were obviously protown and flip mafia Godfather (might be worth a check).

Any thoughts on this? Why are you obviously protown? Have you ever been scum and called yourself obviously protown or anything of the like?

I refer to myself as (obviously) protown across the board. I'm certain that I've done it both as town and as scum. Take that as you will.

[vollkan]

*Dear Vollkan, Where did I threaten destructor? Sincerely, NabNab

All I'm saying about the re-read is that a player who is stuck one day behind the rest of the game doesn't comment on current events and is able to hide behind hindsight. It's tough to be wrong when you comment on wagons that have already gone through, and it's tough to be lynched if you're never wrong. I'm not saying a long re-read is guaranteed malicious, but I would definitely like to hear from you on things that are happening now.

You insinuate that destructor's play is anti-town (I disagree, per my previous post) and potentially a scummy means of avoiding culpability. You request a commentary on current events (as I said, this is impossible without destructor at least skimming - and, even then, it depends on the individual).

The threat is that insinuation. I don't believe you are the sort of person who would ignore the likelihood that this is just ordinary replacement play, so that makes me wonder why you would resort to insinuations about destructor's motives - which, no matter what his alignment, can only serve to coerce him. There's no pro-town basis for stating potential scum motivations and

not

also stating that his actions could very likely just be reasonable replacement play, regardless of alignment.

[curiouskarmadog]

I can fully understand Xtoxm's position on Gaspar. My read on him in this game is very protown. I see the MBL case as very weak and as I have said before based more out of a metaOMGUS than anything else.

CKD's continual push against Gaspar and Xtoxm worries me because they are the two people I think are most likely to be protown.

NN's attack against destructor seems opportunistic to me.

Vote: NabakovNabakov

, curiouskarmadog, MichelSableheart, MrBuddyLee, destructor, Vollkan, Thesp, Xtoxm, Gaspar, No Lynch, Rogueben

So my "attack" on Gaspar put me higher on your list than MBL who has spent the entire day arguing with Gaspar and pushing a case...I on the other hand have been asking gaspar questions..noted.

Also, what is your definition of opportunistic...is there a huge bandwagon on Des that I am not seeing?

also Rogue, when was the last time you actually did any scum hunting..can you provide a post number for me?

+++

Gaspar, So X is protown based on observation...and you think that X's stance to hang anyone else beside you today is protown, no matter who that person is?

and if you referred to yourself has obviously protown across the board..that means little here..unless you can explain to me WHY you are so obviously protown here...based on what actions you have posted here...because I see nothing.

Vote {Gaspar

, Xtoxm} {Nab, vollkan, Rogue}, MS, MBL, {everyone else}, CKD[/quote]

[Rogueben]

So my "attack" on Gaspar put me higher on your list than MBL who has spent the entire day arguing with Gaspar and pushing a case...I on the other hand have been asking gaspar questions..noted.

Yes. The reason being that MBL has a history with Gaspar and I see him more as town blindly arguing against someone he wants to be scum. You however seem to be taking little potshots from the side.

Also, what is your definition of opportunistic...is there a huge bandwagon on Des that I am not seeing?

I suppose opportunistic is not the right word for it exactly. What I mean is that he is jumping on something which is not really a scum-tell and blowing it out of proportion.

also Rogue, when was the last time you actually did any scum hunting..can you provide a post number for me?

That would probably be Post 743. In my defense I have been extremely busy over the last 2 weeks and the game a picked up in pace over that time. (See Post 945)
All excuses aside I am much less busy from now and plan on posting and scumhunting a lot more.

[Gaspar]

Gaspar, So X is protown based on observation...and you think that X's stance to hang anyone else beside you today is protown, no matter who that person is?

I think that he is as certain of my innocence as I am of his.

I don't see how you STILL don't get this.

and if you referred to yourself has obviously protown across the board..that means little here..unless you can explain to me WHY you are so obviously protown here...based on what actions you have posted here...because I see nothing

I'll tell you exactly why I do it. It's for reactions. I look for people who are being fake. Your incredulousness and your density have reached astonishing levels -- to the point where I myself am seriously questioning your innocence.


Why exactly do you believe I am scum?

[Xtoxm]

Wow, a lot being said about me...Thanks for defending me guys

I'm still happiest with a volkan lynch, I think.

I don't think commenting on all the arguments directly about me is a good idea.

But yeh, I agree with G's stance

[curiouskarmadog]

unvote.

[Xtoxm]

What made you change your mind on me?

[Xtoxm]

Also, just noticed we only got like 1 or 2 days til deadline, I'd like to get a proper lynch through, anyone not voting should do so...

[curiouskarmadog]

same fucking reason I unvoted gaspar, I guess.

[NabakovNabakov]

*Dear Vollkan, Where did I threaten destructor? Sincerely, NabNab

All I'm saying about the re-read is that a player who is stuck one day behind the rest of the game doesn't comment on current events and is able to hide behind hindsight. It's tough to be wrong when you comment on wagons that have already gone through, and it's tough to be lynched if you're never wrong. I'm not saying a long re-read is guaranteed malicious, but I would definitely like to hear from you on things that are happening now.

You insinuate that destructor's play is anti-town (I disagree, per my previous post) and potentially a scummy means of avoiding culpability. You request a commentary on current events (as I said, this is impossible without destructor at least skimming - and, even then, it depends on the individual).

The threat is that insinuation. I don't believe you are the sort of person who would ignore the likelihood that this is just ordinary replacement play, so that makes me wonder why you would resort to insinuations about destructor's motives - which, no matter what his alignment, can only serve to coerce him. There's no pro-town basis for stating potential scum motivations and

not

also stating that his actions could very likely just be reasonable replacement play, regardless of alignment.

For somebody who clearly knows how to parse words, you should have been careful enough to not say "threaten" in the first place. I make the

insinuation

yes, that destructor's play could be a shield for anti-town tactics, but I am always sure to couch that in the equivalent of "but maybe not", so I am not ignoring that liklihood, nor is Destructor's ordinary replacement play. He has been LML's replacement for over a month now. I have

never

seen a replacement read that took that long, and I challenge you to find me one that has. I stand by my assertion that Destructor's play is probably hurting the town more than it is helping it.

Now, I'm not going to say that my jab at destructor was all a ploy to stir up controversy because that would be a lie, but I will take note of the wagon it has built. Rogueben in particular strikes me as having jumped headfirst, but it seems just as likely that Vollkan is taking an opportunity to push a wagon other than his own. What's my score on the Vollkan scale anyway?

[Mr. Grey]

Deadline:

Approximately 24 hours from this post.

Vote Count:

6 to lynch.

NabakovNabakov: 3 (destructor, Gaspar, Rogueben)
MrBuddyLee: 2 (MichelSableheart, vollkan)
vollkan: 2 (Thesp, Xtoxm)
Gaspar: 1 (MrBuddyLee)

Current Condorcet Winner:

None. Current Smith Set: curiouskarmadog, destructor, Gaspar, MichelSableheart, MrBuddyLee, NabakovNabakov, Rogueben, Thesp, vollkan, Xtoxm

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put this information in this form.

[Mr. Grey]

destructor has not posted for 72 hours, and has received his first strike.

[destructor]

Dammit.

Yeah, despite my vote being on him, I feel really iffy about the votes that just piled up on Nab, or more specifically, the flak he just received.

That said, I really do think that Nab is either ignoring my contributions or exaggerating my uselessness. I DO accept that being behind the times is not a point for me but I challenge the idea that I'm useless or unable to be involved in discussion because of this and it's on this point that I feel uncomfortable about Nab's entire criticism and vollkan's second last paragraph of Post 695. I think I'm contributing more effectively than, say Rogueben and, arguably, Xtoxm.

Noticing the smith set, I figure I should get some sort of condorcet posted. I'm keeping my vote on Nab but placing vol at the top of my list. The reason for this is that I think Nab is scummy, but vol's 695 seemed opportunistic to me. I dunno, it's like someone reacting scummily to something I find scummy, which makes it like uber-scummy. And keeping Nab at L-3 (or beyond) could be informative.

Vote:

vollkan, Rogueben,

NabakovNabakov

[Thesp]

Holy crud, the deadlines sneak up on you here.

It looks like we're looking at vollkan and MrBuddyLee, with NabakovNabakov rounding the corner. Condorcets should include at least those three, and with an outright lynch being preferable (but doubtful at this point), everyone's actual vote should be on one of those three. (I mention Nabakov Nabakov because he seems to have piqued some interest, though he hasn't caught my attention for whatever reason.)

Claims or anything useful would be helpful here up against the deadline. I still don't like vollkan in the least and feel like he's taking potshots at people without moving the game along, and MrBuddyLee's radio silence timing is odd.

Vote: vollkan

, MrBuddyLee, curiouskarmadog, NabakovNabakov

[Gaspar]

Des, I wouldn't exactly call two votes "piling on," espeically considering I had voiced suspicions of Nab before my spat with MBL.

I want claims from each of {MBL, Voll, and Nab}. The three are basically neck and neck, and I could potentially be willing to swing my vote to ANY of them, as they are in fact my top three candidates.

[destructor]

Yeah, you're right, that's why I mentioned the "flak". It was only really Rogueben's vote that seemed off to me but there was a surprisingly sharp hike in the Nab-hate.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am not liking anything about this thread...

I dont like Des's comment about the votes on Nab while keeping his vote on Nab.

I dont like or am impressed with vollkan's and Nab's plays and comments in this game (especially Nab's recent comments).

I really dont like X and Gaspar, but dont want to push it further at this time in case I really am fucking barking up the wrong tree...

I dont like the uselessness of rogue..his post where he was "scum hunting" was not indeed scum hunting, but opinion and a vote..

I dont like or understand MS's or vollkan's vote of MBL..that being said,

I didnt like MBL attack of OMGL earlier in the thread, but his vote on Niv's I felt was decent...would like to hear MS and vollkan address that vote of Niv yesterday

however, all assumptions are thrown out the door if we are dealing with two separate scum groups (versus individuals).

so I got to vote...

Vote: {Nab, vollkan}, {Gaspar , Xtoxm}, {destructor, MS}, Rogue, MBL, Thesp, CKD

this might change before deadline.

Votes/Unvotes not appearing at the bottom of the post are not counted. Tags removed. - Mod

[Gaspar]

CKD, keep in mind that your vote doesn't count, because it wasn't at the very end of your post.

That said, if you put Nab/Voll at the same level, but Voll has 2 votes and Nab has 3, and we're trying to achieve an actual lynch, why put your vote on Voll and make it 3-3-2 between Voll/Nab/MBL?