Newbie 607 (Ruined)

[IH]

I have my eye on the above player, but it's a gut feeling until I see some more evidence.

For now he's still pretty townish. Just a note of reference for myself to come back on in case I see what I think I see again.

[IH]

EBWOP:THat's Bridges and baloons, since it's a new page now.

[IH]

I triple posted, I'm awesome.

I will have limited access from Saturday to Saturday (7-14th).

On the 7th and 8th I will be going to a two day smash bros tournament, and will leave very early that morning, play for around 48 hours, and then get back late night Sunday. That next morning, Monday, I will be leaving on vacation with my family. Last year I got some form of internet, but I dunno if they will have it, because it was spotty last year.

[ShadowLurker]

IH you seem to be reading too much into SypreX's posts. This wagon grew very quickly and I have the feeling there are scum on it trying to ride to an easy lynch.

I'm looking very warily at BridgesandBalloons right now for a couple of double standards he seems to have used.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

I'm looking very warily at BridgesandBalloons right now for a couple of double standards he seems to have used.

Explain please.

[SpyreX]

I took a quick minute to look at what happened and wow - I have a feeling with the momentum shift I'm gonna hang and I wont emovote and I will defend myself better but in general.

1.) I made a mistake about the cop - the only games I've played were night and day. I'm sorry for that mistake and yes that does completely ruin my explanation of why, even though I didn't agree with Zeeks actions, I didn't think they were as scummy as PEG.

2.) I can not understand why PEG is getting such a strong defense from not PEG. It really doesn't make sense to me one bit. If you all ever get around to actually getting some results from PEG (probably after I'm dead) I'd put a SERIOUS FoS on these rabid defenders of, yes, what is still not town-helping behavior. I've never once said that his bumps were what made me feel like he is scum - its the fact he hasn't really helped and I still am not seeing it.

3.) The cypher in a newbie game? Yea, I'm new to the forum business on here and I really dont like it.


So, when I'm dead here real soon, I'd say keep an eye on what Shadow just said above me. There's some scum up on this train. I still think PEG is the scummiest and all this is is not making me want to change my vote more, but I dont know.

I've tried to answer everything asked and if I did it wrong, well bad for me.

[SpyreX]

Ohh, and one more that stands out before my amazing epicpost:
Bridges says I am a fucking idiot for:
A) lynch a anti-town player who is anti-town even when they're town

I'll do it one more time with empahasis

A) lynch a

anti-town

player who is anti-town even when they're town.


Yep, I'm a newb sure, but I'm still not seeing how this is a get out of jail free pass. If I just played like that from the way foward, would I be clear?

PEG, to me, is still scum and by god I'm starting to think my instincts on Shelby were right when it was Shelby (My opinion changed because I thought the behavoir was because the person just wasn't around) and ShelBnB was/is scummy.

But, honestly, I expect to be lynched (lynching me for information? WOO). When I do, take a look at my posts as town and think about whats goin on here.

[ZeekLTK]

Why is it obvious that Spyrex is your second highest suspect?

Because I changed my vote to him...

[pickemgenius]

IN COLORADO AGAIN LIMITED ACCESS.



*finding a house is more important*

[SpyreX]

Ok, I’ll try to put this all in one place and have it actually be legible.

Rebuttal: IH

So I'm going to highlight helpfulness to the town, and then I'm going to try and explain the difference between anti town and scum.
Peg's 6th post
Peg's 7th post, where he explains his 6th.
His 9th post, where he defends himself, and shoots down Zeekc
His tenth post, which further shoots down Zeke's argument that it was "better than a random vote".
His 18th post is another useful post.

These posts that you are saying are town, to me, are:

6.) Hypocritically attacking another player for doing the same thing PEG even says he is doing. Flat out saying he’s the hammer.
7.) Part of above.
9.) Defending yourself is going to be something that, well, everyone should be doing. The tone is what bothers me.
10.) Now, here’s where I really get confused by this white-knighting PEG; You and BnB both are saying he’s town for trying to get reactions and going from them (which, part of doing would be explaing how the reactions cause the scummy feelings). Here, Zeek says he did JUST THAT with PEG and yet PEG’s 1 line defense is enough to make you go ohh ok?
18.) I honestly can’t see how an OMGUS between the two of them clears one and doesn’t the other.

Big red X. Cop's don't get a head start do they? He wouldn't have a result anyway. Nice try though. There's no way possible that Zeke could no if Peg was town or scum, even if he is a cop.

I am a retard. This is the one real newbie mistake I’ve made – I said it before, but the games I’ve played in have been night starts and the fact the cop wouldn’t have an action honestly slipped my mind. With that in mind, yes, I am a lot more wary of Zeek in general.

What I'm saying is that, by declaring him a town leader, you declared you thought he was town, because only one person had done so before you out of the other 8. In other words you thought he was town, but wanted to keep suspicion on him. Once again, could be really cautious, or could be scum trying to keep suspicion on him, as I've done in the past. Especially as newb scum.

Now, apparently this is a set of statements I made that are definitely being interpreted wrong. When I make statements he’s behaving as a “town leader” I mean more he’s trying to lead discussions and move the game forward. Seperately from that, I had a town vibe from him (yes, I use from). If I say town leader it does not even imply I think without question they are town, its just the role they are playing within the game.

This, really, can be summed up as such: I do not think anyone is 100% town except myself, my posts at the beginning of BnB’s coming into this game were, in fact, me saying I felt he was less scummy than other people, hence a “town” vibe. Like, believe it or not, what I get from you.

Feelings on Zeek

Now I went back and reread Zeek. I can see how it seems like I’ve defended him – a lot of what Zeek was doing with PEG is the same behavior that PEG does with one huge difference – Zeek is actively explaining himself and pushing for DISCUSSION versus a lynch.

Do some of the posts individually seem a little scummy? Of course – for a lot of the same reasons as PEG. Do I think Zeek is scum? Not near as much as some others, especially after I reread his whole posting history.

Actually, me being not retarded and realizing that Cop couldn’t go night 0 (I am the smarts) makes me see that Zeek and PEG had the same idea, but yet Zeek’s methodology really seems like its trying to spark something versus PEG who, as far as I can tell without an explanation, is just being a distraction.

Feelings on BnB

Now, I guess I should say ShelBnB. Shelby had a whopping 4 posts but what made me stick to him like I did until he left was the fact he was the 3rd bandwagon vote out the gate and when I said something (and voted for him) he said there was no need for that but never dropped his vote. That really, really bothered me – with him being replaced I gave the new player the benefit of the doubt that shebly just forgot about the thread and that wasn’t a newbie power-scum tell.

Initially, I really felt like BnB was just sparking discussion and trying to move the town forward in a positive direction (BnB’s posts 1-8). However, re-reading its right in that post 8 that I start to wonder – I can understand on some level the discussions with Zeek but in that post 8 this one statement is the beginning of the scumoil ooze:

At least PEG has provided some okay reasons for his focusing on Kamikaze. You want someone to look at who's summier? Look at Zeek.

Now, I know I’m new so I stumbled on this. I’ve reread every one of PEG’s posts and I cant see a reason, much less an “okay” one in anything PEG ever said. Even moreso, the more I read I see the similarities in what PEG and Zeek were trying to do and cant not see how he could gather a reason from PEG and not see at all what Zeek is doing with PEG. My secret decoder ring apparently was lost in the mail but it just isn’t adding up.

From there, I start to lose confidence in this whole situation rapidly. Not even the vote for me, because whatever, but BnB’s post 17:

I can explain my vote better when Zeek Zeeker Zeekenson answers my questions.
Basically:
1) you had a good case
2) I think we can learn a whole lot more from a Spyrex lynch if he's scum (and if he's town) than a Zeek Lynch.
3) Spyrex defended Zeek but Zeek voted Spyrex. Defending a player (in my book) is scummy unless your cop
4)Bandwag0n lololol!!!!!!1111111

2 – Killing me for information off the bat? I’m really not sure what information you’re trying to get or expect from me. I super extra don’t understand what you’re gonna pull if I’m town unless its hang yourself.
3. – This is the single most WTF – he’s flat out saying I’m scum because I “defended” Zeek whereas in multiple posts he’s defended PEG’s behavior over and over. If he’s trying to lynch me to see if Zeek and I are scumbuddies then I sure as hell would say the same about him and PEG from this right here.

ON TOP OF THAT, in post 18:

Why is it obvious that Spyrex is your second highest suspect?
I have always been angry at PEG, but as a townie what is a better move:

A) lynch a anti-town player who is anti-town even when they're town
B) lynch a genuinely scummy player who doesn't try to be scummy when they're town.

Any townie who picks option A is a fucking idiot, and that's what Spyrex did. At first I thought he was just unexperienced, but now I think that about it, it could be that Spyrex was trying for the easy lynch.

This post bothers me on about every level possible. First off, I’m a fucking idiot for picking option A when, with this being the only game I’ve played on here, A and B ARE THE EXACT SAME THING FOR ME. PEG is acting scummy as all getout and this amazing metashield ™ for his behavior just doesn’t make sense. Actually, even if I had a million games under my belt if B didn’t exist I’d do A everytime because A is not some kinda get out of jail free pass and it shouldn’t be.

Hell, part of me (allow for some meta-wifom right now) goes like this:
If I am the mafia I really don’t give a shit who gets lynched as long as its not me or my scumbuddy. So, I’m gonna be willing to jump bandwagons, build claims on spurious evidence, whatever it takes to make sure the above doesn’t happen. Zeek and SpyreX are both talking a lot and that sure makes it easy to toss em under the bus and if one doesn’t stick, hell, I’ve got the other. I just better make sure they don’t tag my buddy PEG who I am defending even though it goes against all my “claims” to the latter.
So, in conclusion:

My feel of the town on the scumfactor:
PEG
BnB
Zeek
IM
Flame
TGC
Shadow
IH
SpyreX (Woo)

Tldr version; I’m an idiot for not realizing the cop wouldn’t have an investigation, PEG is still scummy for not explaining anything and BnB is a close second for his hypo-defense of PEG and for building thinner and thinner claims as it goes on. If you’re gonna lynch me for information (another awesome bit of scum) – kindly remember this when I’m dead.

[SpyreX]

Ohh, so its clear:
PEG
BnB
--------

MILLIONS OF SPACE BETWEEN


--------
Rest of town with Zeek leading the way

[ZeekLTK]

unvote

for now...

[Flameaxe]

Votecount:

SpyreX [2] (IH, BridgesandBaloons)
IllustratedMan [1] (Pickemgenius)
ZeekLTK [1] (IllustratedMan)
Pickemgenius [1] (SpyreX)
IH [1] (TGC)
TGC [1] (Shadowlurker)

Not Voting [2] (Gimbo, ZeekLTK)

5 to lynch.

IMPORTANT:

Gimbo replaces Flame immediately.

[Gimbo]

Hi guys! I'm replacing Flame

[Gimbo]

He has singled you out because you singled yourself out. You "bumped" the thread twice while we were in the confirmation stages (why?) and then didn't post hardly anything once the game had actually started.

I suggested you might be scum because you were anxious for the game to start (hence the "bumps") and he simply pointed out that not only were you eager BEFORE the game started, but once it did you suddenly got quiet. I thought it was a valid point.

NOBODY WAS FUCKING CONFIRMING AND ME BUMPING THE THREAD UP ENSURES THEY CANT POSSIBLY MISS THE THREAD!!!

Then I got busy with my last few days of school and posting went down.



yes, i am scum for wanting the game to start and making sure people know the thread is here, your logic is flawless and there is no possible leek for you to be wrong.


also on another note

limited possibly until monday due to graduation shit

Zeek, why do you seem so anxious to pick on pickmegenius? I mean, I just joined and wanted to read up on who seems to act fidgety and it seems like you are the one who is eager to pick on someone with absolutely petty logic. So for now

Vote:ZeekLTK

[/b]

[Gimbo]

confirm vote: Zeek
for pushing a horrible case on Peg and ignoring everyone else. Also he grossly misinterprets many of PEG's posts. Maybe he just doesn't understand and see what I do.

Ok, yeah, I really think that Zeek just seems so fricking eager about this, like dude chill out. I think people should seriously stop accusing others for stupid things like BUMPING.... also I have a teeny little

Fos on SyreX

My feel of the town on the scumfactor:
PEG
BnB
Zeek
IM
Flame
TGC
Shadow
IH
SpyreX (Woo)

Sorry but I think its weird how you would do a list like that and put Zeek as 3rd while you seem to generally praise him at everything else (possible scum-partnership?). Besides, it just seems a bit eager on your part for doing this and putting yourself on the bottom. To me, you certainly don't seem like the least suspicious.

[SpyreX]

Do I think Zeek is scum? Not near as much as some others, especially after I reread his whole posting history.

Of the two that I, at this point, am very strongly convinced are scum, Zeek is next up.

And, considering -I- know I'm town, wouldn't I put myself at the bottom?

[Gimbo]

Ok, so at least we agree that Zeek is one of the most scummy around.
Also, regarding your list, I find it weird because it seemed like you made the list to reassure people that you specifically am all for town, because if you really are town, you wouldn't need to do that. Maybe I am reading too much into it...

[Gimbo]

why is this game so DEAD? Like I would understand if the scummies don't want to get involved as much seeing as this is a newbie game and they probably don't want to leak anything but like where's the rest of town?

[SpyreX]

This game likes to randomly die a lot. It'll pick back up in a day or two

I think you're reading too much into my list - just pretend my name isn't there because of everything on it it really doesn't matter (and says the least because of course I'd put myself on the bottom).

Glad to see someone active though

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Spyrex, I wanted to clarify something before:

you are not a fucking idiot

I meant to say is that anyone (when presented the clear choice) wouldn't choose A. I kind of believe that you didn't

see

the choice is clear as I made it.

anti-town= doing stuff that hurts the town lying (but not always) and fake-claiming (again not always) could be anti-town.
Scummy= things that just are in accordance to what a scum would do, and that makes that person seem like they are scum. Many people consider anti-town as a subset of scummy.

@155: PEG is starting to get to me. He hasn't really defended himself and it

is

pissing me off. (I use getting pissed of and thinking someone's scummy kind of interchangeably)

@your other post:

I am a retard.

don't be so hard on yourself. You're not. The only reason I'm hesitant that you might be scummy is because you have been coming across as genuine.

Feelings on BnB

At least PEG has provided some okay reasons for his focusing on Kamikaze. You want someone to look at who's summier? Look at Zeek.

Now, I know I’m new so I stumbled on this. I’ve reread every one of PEG’s posts and I cant see a reason, much less an “okay” one in anything PEG ever said. Even moreso, the more I read I see the similarities in what PEG and Zeek were trying to do and cant not see how he could gather a reason from PEG and not see at all what Zeek is doing with PEG. My secret decoder ring apparently was lost in the mail but it just isn’t adding up.

From what I've read of the 'more advanced' game, often people don't explain themselves too much with the assumption that the rest of the town sees what they're doing. I'm not going to explain his actions for PEG, but I (and IH) both seem to see the reasons.

Speaking of, you are setting me up to defend PEG by attacking my defense of him. Then, if I defend him, I'll be scummy for defending him. Do you realize that you are doing this?

From there, I start to lose confidence in this whole situation rapidly. Not even the vote for me, because whatever, but BnB’s post 17:

I can explain my vote better when Zeek Zeeker Zeekenson answers my questions.
Basically:
1) you had a good case
2) I think we can learn a whole lot more from a Spyrex lynch if he's scum (and if he's town) than a Zeek Lynch.
3) Spyrex defended Zeek but Zeek voted Spyrex. Defending a player (in my book) is scummy unless your cop
4)Bandwag0n lololol!!!!!!1111111

2 – Killing me for information off the bat? I’m really not sure what information you’re trying to get or expect from me. I super extra don’t understand what you’re gonna pull if I’m town unless its hang yourself.
3. – This is the single most WTF – he’s flat out saying I’m scum because I “defended” Zeek whereas in multiple posts he’s defended PEG’s behavior over and over. If he’s trying to lynch me to see if Zeek and I are scumbuddies then I sure as hell would say the same about him and PEG from this right here.

You are misintrepreting. The reasons go from most important to least important.
1)First off was the case against you,
2) second off was me deciding whether to vote you or Zeeky (who have both been scummy). You guys were both pretty even, but I realized that even if you were town, it would be better for you to be lynched than if Zeek was town and lynched. I'm not "killing you for information." You conveniently leave out the first and most important reason I voted you. It was because of the convincing case.
3)Please quote where I "flat out" said you were scum for defending someone. I never did. I added point three because it was something IH missed in his case against you that I personally think is a tell.

Do you understand those reasons now? I don't see how you're calling them scummy.

Why is it obvious that Spyrex is your second highest suspect?
I have always been angry at PEG, but as a townie what is a better move:

A) lynch a anti-town player who is anti-town even when they're town
B) lynch a genuinely scummy player who doesn't try to be scummy when they're town.

Any townie who picks option A is a fucking idiot, and that's what Spyrex did. At first I thought he was just unexperienced, but now I think that about it, it could be that Spyrex was trying for the easy lynch.

dude, i phrased this sentence really wrong. You weren't a fucking idiot, you jsut didn't see the choice between A and B, or you're scum. I repeat, I really apologize for the way that sentence came off.

This post bothers me on about every level possible. First off, I’m a fucking idiot for picking option A when, with this being the only game I’ve played on here, A and B ARE THE EXACT SAME THING FOR ME.

See previous comment. Also, see my explanation between scummy and anti-town earlier in the post.

PEG is acting scummy

correction.

anti-town

as all getout and this amazing metashield ™ for his behavior just doesn’t make sense. Actually, even if I had a million games under my belt if B didn’t exist

OF course if B didn't exist we'd pick A. The point is B does exist, and now you see B, and that's why you're suspicious of Zeekington.

I’d do A everytime because A is not some kinda get out of jail free pass and it shouldn’t be.

I like your firm stance on this. I mean, I like the fact that you take a firm stance.

Hell, part of me (allow for some meta-wifom right now) goes like this:
If I am the mafia I really don’t give a shit who gets lynched as long as its not me or my scumbuddy. So, I’m gonna be willing to jump bandwagons, build claims on spurious evidence, whatever it takes to make sure the above doesn’t happen. Zeek and SpyreX are both talking a lot and that sure makes it easy to toss em under the bus and if one doesn’t stick, hell, I’ve got the other. I just better make sure they don’t tag my buddy PEG who I am defending even though it goes against all my “claims” to the latter.

LOL (you

were

joking around here, right?)


tl;dr version: i'm not lynching you for information, I'm lynching you because you're scummy. Also, I didn't mean to call you a fucking idiot. That was phrased wrong. Also there is a huge difference between anti-town and scummy.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

FOS: Gimbo

There's something I don't like here.



(a note about me: I use FOSes to mark things to look back at later. FOSes don't really mean to much as far as who is scum overall coming from me, but they mark things I didn't like for reasons I couldn't explain at the time)

[Gimbo]

FOS: Gimbo

There's something I don't like here.

(a note about me: I use FOSes to mark things to look back at later. FOSes don't really mean to much as far as who is scum overall coming from me, but they mark things I didn't like for reasons I couldn't explain at the time)

OMGUS !!

Unvote

Vote:BridgesAndBaloons

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j/k, lol

Unvote

I still have a

FoS:ZeekLTK

, and a teeny

FoS:SyreX

but I think SyreX made a good point about Zeek, so I'll unvote for now.

P.S. I can't really get a read on everyone else though....

[SpyreX]

BnB,

We're going to go round and round about this, I can tell.

anti-town= doing stuff that hurts the town lying (but not always) and fake-claiming (again not always) could be anti-town.
Scummy= things that just are in accordance to what a scum would do, and that makes that person seem like they are scum. Many people consider anti-town as a subset of scummy.

Peg is not being anti-town to me. He's being scummy. In fact, the reasons why I feel Zeek come off scummy (as I've said) are the same as why PEG comes off so unbelievably scummy. The

difference

is that Zeek is at least saying why he's doing it. If Zeek and PEG both were playing that scummy fashion exactly the same I'd think this game was in the bag and honestly be irritated if one came up town because it doesn't make sense at all.

As for the other bit:

2) I think we can learn a whole lot more from a Spyrex lynch if he's scum (and if he's town) than a Zeek Lynch.
3) Spyrex defended Zeek but Zeek voted Spyrex. Defending a player (in my book) is scummy unless your cop

2.) This to me, no matter what semantics, is: regardless of what SpyreX's alignment is we learn more than if we lynch Zeek. That is lynching me on day 1 for information. If not, then the fact you're preparing for my townflip to go "Ohh look hey I thought he might be town" is scummy in and of itself.
3.) Break it down:
Defending a player (in my book) is scummy unless your cop
Spyrex defended Zeek but Zeek voted Spyrex
The logical conclusion: SpyreX, the one who defended, is scum(my).
Therefore: You have said I was scum.

LOL (you were joking around here, right?)

It was an example of how easy it is to spin things, but on some level, no. If you -were- mafia, wouldn't that situation make sense?

Tldr; Thank you for the apology. Anti-town and scummy is a semantic argument at this point and I feel PEG is being scummy. I dont care if you defend PEG or anything else, it's going to take a lot for me to think -you- also aren't scummy.

[ZeekLTK]

I'd really like to know how I am "scummy" for simply attacking someone that everyone agrees is "anti-town"...