Mini #564 - Mafia in Crubtown - Game Over

[Talitha]

I'm nearly ready to change my vote to Akonas just because QF voted for him.

Explanation: It's not because I think she's an obvious innocent, (even though I don't at this stage feel that she's scum). It's because she finally voted (woohoo!) AND she voted for her man. Game on.

[Jenter Brolincani]

I am VERY worried about how Akonas seen to think Blame Spreading isn't scummy... It's a MAJOR scumtell.

[windkirby]

Furthermore, if I was confident, it's because as a vanilla, I have nothing to loose by questioning what I feel is questionable. I figured that even if it turned out that you were scum, making me look scummy, I didn't care so much because, since I know I'm not scum, looking suspicious is not a huge concern for me.

???

You said you became suspicious of people on the wagon. Okay, if I were to be lynched anyways, then half the town would be suspicious. The obvious impracticality of your implication makes your statement suspicious. Also, did you claim already? If not I do not see the reason for your coming out with a vanilla role right now.

I know that this sounds rather stupid, but when I said that I was becoming increasingly suspicious of anyone on the bandwagon, what I meant to imply was that later on, there was a very large chance of me coming back to your bandwagon to search for scum. The reason I am not currently doing so now is because I am mainly focusing on QuantumFruit. Typically I go one player at a time.

Furthermore, I hardly see reason to

contain

the fact that I am a vanilla townie, especially when it supports my case. Scum have hardly anything to gain by knowing that a person is vanilla.

I didn't care so much because, since I know I'm not scum, looking suspicious is not a huge concern for me.

Not very logical at all.....

Disagree. Scum have more at stake because there are fewer of them. If one of them is lynched, it hurts the team greatly, whereas if a vanilla townie is lynched, it's not as big of a deal.

Your constant pressure is tempting me to switch my vote. If you thought as fiercely that I was scum as you're portraying now, I am certainly inclined to believe that you would have said so before dying. We have no deadline: If I'm the scummiest player, why aren't you voting for me? Why are you instead placing QF at L-1? Certainly seems like your suspicion of me is just put on while your vote is being used to get you to night the fastest.

In fact, the more I think about it, QF's scumminess is shriveled in comparison to your bombardment that seemed to magically appear as soon as you got your new role. I am much happier with your lynch that Quantum's.

unvote, vote: darkdude

I'd like to point out that this puts him at L-1, so if anyone would like to lynch him, it would probably be a good idea to first request a claim.

[darkdude]

Furthermore, I hardly see reason to contain the fact that I am a vanilla townie, especially when it supports my case. Scum have hardly anything to gain by knowing that a person is vanilla.

No, if you are vanilla now they know who's NOT the power role, e.g. vigilante which we may have...

Disagree. Scum have more at stake because there are fewer of them. If one of them is lynched, it hurts the team greatly, whereas if a vanilla townie is lynched, it's not as big of a deal.

First of all that's WIFOM. Second, in any case town shouldn't intentionally do something to make them appear scummy. That just gives the real scum a chance to slip away under cover.

We have no deadline: If I'm the scummiest player, why aren't you voting for me? Why are you instead placing QF at L-1? Certainly seems like your suspicion of me is just put on while your vote is being used to get you to night the fastest.

Going for OMGUS heh?

Who said I'm no longer suspicious of you? I'm think it is very likely you are scum. But though I stated the case no one else seems to agree, so using my vote to pressure QF is better than having it collect dust under your name I think.

[windkirby]

No, if you are vanilla now they know who's NOT the power role, e.g. vigilante which we may have...

Still always the chance that I lied I was vanilla. I see your point, but I still don't feel it necessary to conceal my role when I don't have a power when it helps my case.

First of all that's WIFOM. Second, in any case town shouldn't intentionally do something to make them appear scummy. That just gives the real scum a chance to slip away under cover.

What, you picture me saying, "Oh, well, I'm going to do this because it makes me look scummy."? Ridiculous: rather, I was simply not going to let the somewhat questionable appearance of it stop me from stating that I was finding your bandwagon scummy.

At any rate, not OMGUS. Just finding your constant bombardment of me contrived.

[Crub]

Seventh Vote Count of Day 3

darkdude (3):

Talitha, Akonas, windkirby

QuantumFruit (2):

Pink Puppy, darkdude

Akonas (2):

Jenter Brolincani, QuantumFruit

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

[darkdude]

Still always the chance that I lied I was vanilla. I see your point, but I still don't feel it necessary to conceal my role when I don't have a power when it helps my case.

Problem is it doesn't help your case. There is no proof that you are vanilla, so saying your actions are justified from a vanilla perspective is not convincing at all. As you said, you could still be any role.

What, you picture me saying, "Oh, well, I'm going to do this because it makes me look scummy."? Ridiculous: rather, I was simply not going to let the somewhat questionable appearance of it stop me from stating that I was finding your bandwagon scummy.

You could easily have stated that in a way so that it does not suggest you have confidence in my alignment. You're saying now "I wasn't worried about looking scummy, THEREFORE it would not be scummy even if it seemed so, BECAUSE I allowed it to seem scummy in the first place".

That in itself is scummy. I it's the first time I heard that sort of logic.

Unless I'm getting the wrong idea from your words here...

Furthermore, if I was confident, it's because as a vanilla, I have nothing to loose by questioning what I feel is questionable. I figured that even if it turned out that you were scum, making me look scummy, I didn't care so much because, since I know I'm not scum, looking suspicious is not a huge concern for me.

[Pink Puppy]

Also (and this is crap reasoning but that's how my mind works sometimes) if my bf was playing in this game and I was scum, I totally would have killed him by now, kinda like how I killed mith at thespival because he was sitting too close to me on the couch.

Hmmm.

I actually have to say, I would do the same -- kill my BF ASAP if I was scum and he was not.

There's always the possibility that they're scum together I guess.

But this makes me rethink my vote on her.

...

I still don't see "gut" play jiving with the rest of QF's comments this game, but I am starting to see Akonas as more scummy. Especially after his last post. I do not like how he freaks out asking us to unvote QF. It does not make sense for him to be so convinced that she is not scum, especially considering his earlier FOS on her today. It seems like he is just trying to gain her support. Which backfired.

I have to think about this a little. I want to hear Akonas' answers to my questions from last post.

But he is looking like a good lynch to me right now.

[windkirby]

You could easily have stated that in a way so that it does not suggest you have confidence in my alignment.

How should I have stated it, then? Besides, trying to get people to stop voting you wasn't even what I was doing: I was trying to understand

why

people where voting you so that I could feel more comfortable with your lynch.

You're saying now "I wasn't worried about looking scummy, THEREFORE it would not be scummy even if it seemed so, BECAUSE I allowed it to seem scummy in the first place".

IMO, it would only seem scummy if I was telling people to stop voting, which I was not doing! I don't know how many times I have to say it:

I wanted people to at least explain WHY they were voting you, not necessarily stop voting you altogether!

Furthermore, you are telling me that I am not allowed to express my opinions simply because it

could

appear scummy. My point is not "It's not scummy because I didn't worry about appearing scummy." My point is: "Even if it was scummy (which I don't believe it was), I didn't refrain from doing so because I felt that, as a townsperson, I ought to speak my opinion on the darkdude bandwagon and request explanation even though it

could

possibly seem scummy to some, as, since I'm not a power role, I would rather have people become a little more suspicious of me than let this bandwagon go unquestioned." (It's a very wordy point.)

[darkdude]

I didn't refrain from doing so because I felt that, as a townsperson, I ought to speak my opinion on the darkdude bandwagon and request explanation even though it could possibly seem scummy to some, as, since I'm not a power role, I would rather have people become a little more suspicious of me than let this bandwagon go unquestioned." (It's a very wordy point.)

I understand what you are saying, but that can easily be an excuse for doing something that seems scummy (to me), being so confident in opposing the day's lynch.

[Akonas]

And in one of your posts, you FOS QF. So why are you so against QF lynch now?

Because FoS =/= Vote.

Actually, I am not discounting gut. I am saying I don't think it makes sense with the rest of her play here. She has insisted about being "sure" about people, and not wanting to make hasty decisions. For someone who wants to be careful, it seems ridiculous to suddenly start relying on gut.

For someone who wants to be careful, you're encouraging her awful much to vote. You're saying both that she should change her playstyle and that changing her playstyle is scummy. You can't have it both ways.

Also, you're votemongering, which is often scum trying to get people to jump on a wagon, especially in a game as slow as this one.

---

I am VERY worried about how Akonas seen to think Blame Spreading isn't scummy... It's a MAJOR scumtell.

Accusing someone without voting is not scummy. Attacking everyone without taking a position can be.

---

Akonas: If you were scum, would you kill QF a) early b) if necessary c) never ?

Well, I think this is a bit of a loaded question considering we're in a game right now. I would try to keep her alive thinking I was town (:D) or kill her if neccesary.

I'm nearly ready to change my vote to Akonas just because QF voted for him.

Why?

[Talitha]

Why?

Because presumably she knows you pretty well.

[Pink Puppy]

And in one of your posts, you FOS QF. So why are you so against QF lynch now?

Because FoS =/= Vote.

But it shows you were suspicious of her. What has she done to change your mind? And change your mind so drastically that we should all stop voting her??

Actually, I am not discounting gut. I am saying I don't think it makes sense with the rest of her play here. She has insisted about being "sure" about people, and not wanting to make hasty decisions. For someone who wants to be careful, it seems ridiculous to suddenly start relying on gut.

For someone who wants to be careful, you're encouraging her awful much to vote. You're saying both that she should change her playstyle and that changing her playstyle is scummy. You can't have it both ways.

Also, you're votemongering, which is often scum trying to get people to jump on a wagon, especially in a game as slow as this one.

Asking her to vote isn't asking her to change her playstyle. I don't think "sitting the fence" is a playstyle." I'm saying that I wouldn't expect a careful player to play based on gut. It doesn't make sense to me.

And how am I vote mongering?

Would you rather QF not vote? I bet you would, seeing as she is voting you!

Overall, I don't see why Akonas would try so desperately to get us to unvote QF unless he was just trying to buddy up to her. He has FOSed her a few other times throughout the game before the one today, and I am starting to think the FOSes were made to manipulate her.

unvote; vote Akonas

He is at L-1.

[darkdude]

Hm...I think we over looked something

Explanation: It's not because I think she's an obvious innocent, (even though I don't at this stage feel that she's scum). It's because she finally voted (woohoo!) AND she voted for her man. Game on.

I have no idea how QF is an obvious innocent...

Unvote

Vote: Talitha

[Talitha]

I'm confused. Did I say she was?

[Akonas]

He misread your post, I think (and thought you were implying that she actually was).

[QuantumFruit]

@darkdude:

Yes, and thus it has priority over logic?

I trust it more than logic because logic can be skewed with by other people - they can make very convincing arguments that are very easy to understand (and completely wrong). Gut feelings come from the individual, and I haven't had enough experience to where I'm approximately 100% sure because of a gut feeling.

@Talitha: I would say I'd kill Akonas if necessary. I don't know that he'd automatically assume I'm scum if I was - I think we'd naturally assume that the other is less scummy than everyone else, so I wouldn't really feel threatened. If I got the sense that he was getting a gut feeling about me, I'd probably get him killed. I'd had a gut feeling about him for most of the game, but I kind of pushed it away. So I think he'd do something like that (subconsciously, of course).

---

I guess this is just a clarification post. I'll try to do more original insights later, but I'm inbetween classes now.

[darkdude]

I'm confused. Did I say she was?

lol yes, my mistake. I was wondering why no one picked that up.

Unvote
Vote: QuantumFruit

[Talitha]

So, I think both darkdude and Akonas are at L-1?

This is interesting. I kinda want to lynch both of them.

[windkirby]

Mod: can we get a vote count?

Wondering what the configuration is, since we seem to be close to a lynch in more ways than one.

[Pink Puppy]

Seventh Vote Count of Day 3

darkdude (3):

Talitha, Akonas, windkirby

QuantumFruit (2):

Pink Puppy, darkdude

Akonas (2):

Jenter Brolincani, QuantumFruit

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Only thing that has changed since this is that I am voting Akonas.

[darkdude]

So, I think both darkdude and Akonas are at L-1?

ORLY?

Post 836 = MY HAMMER!

Unvote
Vote: Akonas

[darkdude]

Oh damn, I wasn't in the right mind when I did that. I did suspect him enough to want to hammer, but I should have waited for a role claim.

If town loses because of this, I'm sorry! You can lynch me or whatever tomorrow.

[Jenter Brolincani]

Drunk posting much?

[Akonas]

Go town!